70 and Just Getting Started

Status
Not open for further replies.

JayMartin

New Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2023
Messages
3
Location
Greenwood Village, CO USA
Lightroom Experience
Beginner
Lightroom Version
Classic
Hello,

By way of introduction, I’m 70 years old and wanting to digitize a lifetime of photos, slides, and 35mm film. I am not much of a photographer, although I did have a Nikkormat and a dark room as a teenager. I mainly want to preserve memories and pass them along to my children and grandchildren. My plan:

  • Purchase an Epson V850 Pro (done)
  • Use Silverfast to scan everything. (Is Silverfast even a viable business? I sent them help requests days ago about being unable to unlock their software and haven’t heard back from them.)
  • Use Lightroom Classic to tag my photos
  • Copy my photos and the Lightroom Catalog onto external disks or thumb drives and give each of my four children one. If they are motivated enough to install Lightroom, they can benefit from my tagging. If not, at least they have all the images in folders.
Have just finished reading the Quick Start Guide and next need to purchase The Missing FAQ.

Any words of wisdom as I embark on this effort?

Thanks, and I’m sure I’ll have more questions later,

Jay
 
I'm planning to embark on a similar task with my parents' photographs. All my personal photographs are digital.

For software, I'd look at VueScan rather than Silverfast. I'm fortunate to have bought a Professional licence when it included perpetual updates, which the developer is still honouring. If you buy VueScan now, you can either subscribe for a monthly payment or pay once with a year of included updates (and make another one-off payment for a one-year Update Program if you want another year of updates). VueScan Professional can output DNG files.

The best approach to slides depends on how many you have and what mounts they are in. Nikon used to make excellent slide scanners with an automatic feeder attachment. The hardware has long been discontinued, and the included software will not run on modern operating systems. Fortunately, the hardware works with VueScan Professional, at least on Windows. As I have about a thousand slides to scan, I plan to buy a suitable scanner and feeder attachment second-hand and then sell it once I have finished scanning. You really need the later SA-210 feeder if any of your slides are in cardboard mounts. You can also scan negatives using the Nikon hardware with the correct attachment.

Most metadata you add using Lightroom Classic can be read by non-Adobe software.
 
Welcome to the forum Jay! That's quite an undertaking, but satisfying to see all of the old photos.
 
Hello,

By way of introduction, I’m 70 years old and wanting to digitize a lifetime of photos, slides, and 35mm film. I am not much of a photographer, although I did have a Nikkormat and a dark room as a teenager. I mainly want to preserve memories and pass them along to my children and grandchildren. My plan:

  • Purchase an Epson V850 Pro (done)
  • Use Silverfast to scan everything. (Is Silverfast even a viable business? I sent them help requests days ago about being unable to unlock their software and haven’t heard back from them.)
  • Use Lightroom Classic to tag my photos
  • Copy my photos and the Lightroom Catalog onto external disks or thumb drives and give each of my four children one. If they are motivated enough to install Lightroom, they can benefit from my tagging. If not, at least they have all the images in folders.
Have just finished reading the Quick Start Guide and next need to purchase The Missing FAQ.

Any words of wisdom as I embark on this effort?

Thanks, and I’m sure I’ll have more questions later,

Jay
Welcome to the forum. There have been a number of good threads about scanning old images/negatives/slides in the forum that you may want to read when you have a bit of time. To specifically address some of your plan, I suggest you consider the following:
  • As @David_W has suggested, you may want to consider VueScan. I bought a license years ago, and have found it to be a powerful piece of software. It is not perfect, but it is highly worth consideration.
  • If you are just scanning photos, then know that the V850 may be overkill. It is highly recommended, but if you are on a budget, Epson has other models that are quite capable of scanning prints. The software is also important in addition to the hardware for scanning, so you have options.
  • I would strongly discourage you from leaving LR catalogs for your children, and this is based on experience. I would suggest that you make good quality copies of the images (tiffs and/or jpegs) and consider putting them on drives. This will allow immediate access to the images without any special software, and they can then be migrated and backed up as need be. I would also include some type of text or PDF file with any information that you cannot embed into the metadata, and would actually encourage an external copy of the data since not everyone will know to look at the metadata.
  • If you are going to clean up what you scan, allow time in your schedule as even a small amount of post processing can take time.
Good luck,

--Ken
 
I have been doing it for many years when I have time, using one of the old Nikon film scanners with VueScan Professional (I rely on its bulk scanning features), and organizing everything in Lightroom Classic of course. The Epson V850 you already bought should work quite well, because it has the included bulk scanning adapters for scanning filmstrips and multiple mounted slides at once.

This type of project is such a massive task that workflow planning and organization are essential. Consider reading one or more of the DAM (Digital Asset Management) books by Peter Krogh, who uses Lightroom Classic and advises institutions on digitizing large photo collections.

If you have a lot of color negatives and you want to get the best quality out of the most valuable images, you might consider NegativeLab Pro. I don’t currently use it because I have VueScan invert the negatives and I think I have a pretty good handle on using it and Lightroom Classic to color correct old faded negatives, but NegativeLab Pro seems impressive enough that I still think about adding it when budget allows.

I agree with Replytoken that what you want to leave behind are ready-to-use images in common formats (JPEG, TIFF…) that are usefully tagged with metadata such as people names, places, and captions. Leave copies to multiple people to increase the chance that they survive multiple family generations. If you have significant doubts about the ability of family members to reliably preserve and pass on a digital archive, consider also having the images printed as photo books with the information printed with the photos.
 
...
  • Use Silverfast to scan everything. (Is Silverfast even a viable business? I sent them help requests days ago about being unable to unlock their software and haven’t heard back from them.)...
I couldn't figure out a way to edit my original post, but wanted to say that Silverfast did just get back to me and offered me a free upgrade to their latest version.
Thanks for the other comments and welcomes,
Jay
 
Between your comments and looking at the output options of my scanner software, I am beginning to wonder if Lightroom is going to work at all for me. As @Conrad Chavez astutely pointed out, what I am really looking for is a poor man’s version of a digital asset management system (and not a way to edit my photos). So the million dollar question is, “Will LR allow one to add keywords and subsequently search on them if the images are jpegs?”

If not, then my fourth bullet point in my original post is not going to be achievable, and I’m back to the drawing board.
 
I really think you can make this work for you.

VueScan Professional can save scans in DNG, and I believe Silverfast can also. I would scan into DNG, add metadata using Lightroom Classic's Library module, colour correct and make any other necessary changes in Lightroom Classic's Develop module, and then export or publish to JPEG for your family members.

I would organise your photographs into a collection set, then publish them to folders organised by the collections using Jeffrey Friedl's Collection Publisher plugin.
 
So the million dollar question is, “Will LR allow one to add keywords and subsequently search on them if the images are jpegs?”
The short answer is yes.
 
what I am really looking for is a poor man’s version of a digital asset management system (and not a way to edit my photos). So the million dollar question is, “Will LR allow one to add keywords and subsequently search on them if the images are jpegs?”

If not, then my fourth bullet point in my original post is not going to be achievable, and I’m back to the drawing board.

If organizing is that much more important than high quality editing, and if editing is actually not something you will do much of, then you have many choices, and paying a subscription for Lightroom Classic might not be the best or more cost-effective option. There are many applications out there for macOS and Windows that can do the job of adding metadata to photos and embedding them into the image in standard IPTC format, so that the metadata can be read by any other application, OS, or website that understands IPTC metadata. And many do, since IPTC is an international standard used by journalists and organizations.

For example, if all you need to do is add metadata such as keywords and captions, you could use PhotoMechanic, NeoFinder, or many other advanced photo browsers to do that efficiently. (If you already subscribe to Creative Cloud, Adobe Bridge can do this job too.) And for your family members to see the images and metadata, here’s something to keep in mind: As long as the photos are in a common standard format such as JPEG or TIFF, and the metadata you added is embedded in the image files, your family does not need to use or pay for any special applications! You can view images and their basic metadata, and search on the metadata, right on the desktop or in the basic photo viewers and search functions included with macOS, iOS, and Windows (and maybe Android but I am not sure). If you teach them how to do that, they can browse photos right off a USB drive and find pictures based on metadata without opening any software.

If I am saying all of this, why am I using Lightroom Classic to organize a photo archive? Because although I do like the extensive metadata and organization features in Lightroom Classic, I also want to do high quality editing of those images, so I want the very powerful pro-level image editing tools in Lightroom. But if you are mostly interested in asset management and have little interest in photo editing, you can decide to choose one of the many affordable photo browser/organizers that are not necessarily photo editors.
 
@JayMartin

I am going to differ from a number of people on here. You are looking to pass this down to kids and grandchildren. Classic is not the way to go.
Use the Lightroom cloud ecosystem. Both products can export the images to JPEGS with all the meta-data attached.
The difference is Lightroom cloud, is designed for multi-device. So, with a little planning, you can actually setup shared folders/systems with family members to help you if they are interest, if not providing help, they can provide feedback.
There is a way to migrate from Classic to the cloud, but if you want the younger generation interested, use the platform which is designed to work with their phones.

Tim
 
There is another book by Peter Krogh that I found helpful - "Digitizing Your Photos with Your Camera and Lightroom". I used a scanner to digitize my prints and found the chapters about preparing the materials and tagging to be very helpful. Good luck and come back with any questions you may have, as many of us have performed this task.

Gary
 
@JayMartin

I am going to differ from a number of people on here. You are looking to pass this down to kids and grandchildren. Classic is not the way to go.
Use the Lightroom cloud ecosystem. Both products can export the images to JPEGS with all the meta-data attached.
The difference is Lightroom cloud, is designed for multi-device. So, with a little planning, you can actually setup shared folders/systems with family members to help you if they are interest, if not providing help, they can provide feedback.
There is a way to migrate from Classic to the cloud, but if you want the younger generation interested, use the platform which is designed to work with their phones.

Tim
While the cloud version of LR may be better than Classic, I do have to ask what happens when the subscription, and the owner of it, expire? This only works if people take advantage when you post the information. I think that putting the images on media (and migrating them as the need arises), and possibly printing them out still have the best chances of survival beyond the photographer.

--Ken
 
I agree with you, @Replytoken . Whilst I understand the sentiment that "in the cloud" can be safer and more accessible, neither of these things is necessarily true. In particular, the ownership of a cloud account can become uncertain after a death or simply be overlooked for too long, by which time the bill has gone unpaid, and the data has been lost.

My branch of the family perhaps ends with my brother and me, because neither of us has biological children. It is up to my brother's adopted children to decide how much they identify with our family as adults, but it is possible that they will decide that photographs of our family other than of their adoptive parents are unimportant to them. I will do my best to get the family photographs that have been entrusted to me into the hands of the wider family before my death - but that is more easily done by distributing JPEG files in life on suitable media rather than relying on a paid cloud account being kept going after my death. There is almost no point in distributing DNGs, a Lightroom Classic catalog or putting them all on Lightroom Cloud. I am only aware of one family member that uses Lightroom: he's nearly thirty years older than I am and I am pretty sure he's still using Lightroom perpetual, so a version 12 catalog is of no use to him.
 
I agree with you, @Replytoken . Whilst I understand the sentiment that "in the cloud" can be safer and more accessible, neither of these things is necessarily true. In particular, the ownership of a cloud account can become uncertain after a death or simply be overlooked for too long, by which time the bill has gone unpaid, and the data has been lost.

My branch of the family perhaps ends with my brother and me, because neither of us has biological children. It is up to my brother's adopted children to decide how much they identify with our family as adults, but it is possible that they will decide that photographs of our family other than of their adoptive parents are unimportant to them. I will do my best to get the family photographs that have been entrusted to me into the hands of the wider family before my death - but that is more easily done by distributing JPEG files in life on suitable media rather than relying on a paid cloud account being kept going after my death. There is almost no point in distributing DNGs, a Lightroom Classic catalog or putting them all on Lightroom Cloud. I am only aware of one family member that uses Lightroom: he's nearly thirty years older than I am and I am pretty sure he's still using Lightroom perpetual, so a version 12 catalog is of no use to him.
I am in a similar situation and also watched a similar situation with a close friend (who was also a forum member) who passed away in 2020. I have nieces and nephews who have a mild interest in genealogy and my siblings and I are not getting any younger. And when my mother passed away, I gathered a storage crate full of images from her house that I have been wanting to scan and to the best of everyone's ability, identify who is the pictures.

My friend died unexpectedly and I know that his family has not even touched his PC or any of his camera equipment. He used LRC, but I know that he was trying to export files so they could be given to this kids. Hopefully the drive is still working and the images can be migrated.

In both cases, I suspect that getting the data into as many hands as possible is the best strategy. And reminding folks that they need to backup and migrate the data if they want it available long after we are gone. Prints help address this issue to a degree, but all strategies seem to rely on an interest and the willingness to take care of the data, print or electronic file. I really wish there was a foundation or nonprofit that was dedicated to long term storage of electronic files, but I suspect this would create its own challenges.

--Ken
 
@Replytoken @JayMartin

I am 51, already discussed with my siblings, my kids and some older nieces. When our parents pass away, all books, paper images, all of it goes to the trash bin. We have already discussed and worked with our parents to move everything digital that will be kept. We have also discussed how to take over and manage the OneDrive subscription where all the digital information is kept.

My oldest two kids are in studio apartments, with about 500 square feet of living space. They have zero interest in keep more paper, thumb drives...

My point is, future generations have generally decided to leave paper behind. I am part of that group. I used to collect books, in fact at one point I had 48ft of floor to ceiling bookshelves of double stacked books. Over 100 boxes of books. I now have roughly five coffee table books, I converted to eBooks almost twenty years ago, and donated the physical books roughly a decade ago.

Tim
 
@Replytoken @JayMartin

I am 51, already discussed with my siblings, my kids and some older nieces. When our parents pass away, all books, paper images, all of it goes to the trash bin. We have already discussed and worked with our parents to move everything digital that will be kept. We have also discussed how to take over and manage the OneDrive subscription where all the digital information is kept.

My oldest two kids are in studio apartments, with about 500 square feet of living space. They have zero interest in keep more paper, thumb drives...

My point is, future generations have generally decided to leave paper behind. I am part of that group. I used to collect books, in fact at one point I had 48ft of floor to ceiling bookshelves of double stacked books. Over 100 boxes of books. I now have roughly five coffee table books, I converted to eBooks almost twenty years ago, and donated the physical books roughly a decade ago.

Tim
It is a personal decision, and unfortunately none of will know what woks best for the folks asked to carry forward the information. I suspect that many years from now, historians will look back and find a big gap of information from what they may refer to as the "dawn of the digital age".

--Ken
 
Or the opposite. They will find they cannot find anything because people keep everything. My daughters answer when their iPhones run out of space is not to delete/cull images. The answer is to add more Apple iCloud space. Both of my daughters have the 2TB plans each and are asking me to provide space on OneDrive since they have filled up their Apple plans. I have less than 1TB of data between everything!

Tim
 
It is a personal decision, and unfortunately none of will know what woks best for the folks asked to carry forward the information. I suspect that many years from now, historians will look back and find a big gap of information from what they may refer to as the "dawn of the digital age".
There is also a distressing impermanence to the analog age.

My parents will celebrate their golden wedding anniversary next year, so we want to make a photo book looking back over 50 years. I've got all the digital images they and I have ever taken (other than the rubbish that was culled almost immediately). However, the analog material is much more troublesome.

Most of the photos that both my parents took before they were married are on slides - there are around 1000 slides, almost all Kodachrome, complete with captions and quite a lot of dates. The colours have faded, but they have been stored well, and I expect them to scan well for material that is over 50 years old. Somewhere, there might be some black-and-white images that my father shot; he used to shoot 35mm on an old all-manual Zenit, doing his own developing and printing. However, I've yet to unearth that material: perhaps most or all of it was lost or deliberately discarded after his first marriage ended in divorce.

When my parents became a couple, they switched to shooting colour negatives, mostly for financial reasons. Sadly much of this material is in poor condition. The negatives that I have located are all jumbled up, with many of them seemingly having been lost or thrown away as they were felt to have little value once any desired reprints had been ordered. Quite a lot of pictures from my early years were shot on 126 film using cheap cameras. I doubt these images are worth scanning from the negatives even if I can find suitable film holders because of the poor resolution. The rest of the analog material was shot on 35mm colour negative film, typically on decent quality point-and-shoot cameras, so I would expect those negatives to be of better quality than the 126 material.

The prints were what was valued in the colour negative days, with the most valuable prints mounted in albums that were made of materials that were definitely not archival. Most of these albums are those awful ones where you lift a plastic cover sheet and stick the prints directly onto the low-tack background of the page, then lower the plastic cover sheet. I hope those albums are no longer made, as they are a dreadful option to store and display anything of more than ephemeral value. With the passage of time, the glue has dried up, set hard and has yellowed, so there is little hope of ever removing the prints without severe damage. Worse still, the album pages and especially the glue are not acid-free. Fortunately, very few of the images show obvious acid damage; almost all are merely faded and permanently stuck to the album.

After experimenting on a few pages, I think the only hope with the equipment that I have to hand is to lift the cover sheet gently, scan the prints without removing them from the page, and then carefully clean the scanner glass to remove any glue residue. I wonder if a better option is to buy a copy stand and suitable lighting so that I can photograph the prints in situ. I would welcome any advice. If I scan this material, I am going to spend ages cleaning the scanner and waiting for the solvent to evaporate before I can scan the next page. I realise that I should consider buying Peter Krogh's book on digitising photos.

There is also an extensive collection of my late grandmother's albums, which are in a similar state to my parents' albums. I don't have any of my grandmother's negatives to my knowledge - I think they were all thrown away. Some of the older material in those albums is black and white. Her mother died at a fairly young age, after which her father tore up and burned almost all the family photos. My grandmother always lamented the loss of what her father destroyed; she had very few photographs from before her marriage. I would like to preserve some of these photos to pass on to the family.

I am aware of the importance of digitising this material, as the originals will only deteriorate further. The time might come when I have to downsize, which might force me to pass on or discard most of the originals. There is also the ongoing risk of losing them to fire or flood.

Any advice on how to tackle this project would be appreciated.
 
Or the opposite. They will find they cannot find anything because people keep everything. My daughters answer when their iPhones run out of space is not to delete/cull images. The answer is to add more Apple iCloud space. Both of my daughters have the 2TB plans each and are asking me to provide space on OneDrive since they have filled up their Apple plans. I have less than 1TB of data between everything!

Tim
It is one solution - for the time being. I keep some data I need on the cloud, but I also have backups. I remember when Adobe lost a bunch of data that customers had in their cloud storage site. It is rare, but it can happen.

--Ken
 
There is also a distressing impermanence to the analog age.

My parents will celebrate their golden wedding anniversary next year, so we want to make a photo book looking back over 50 years. I've got all the digital images they and I have ever taken (other than the rubbish that was culled almost immediately). However, the analog material is much more troublesome.

Most of the photos that both my parents took before they were married are on slides - there are around 1000 slides, almost all Kodachrome, complete with captions and quite a lot of dates. The colours have faded, but they have been stored well, and I expect them to scan well for material that is over 50 years old. Somewhere, there might be some black-and-white images that my father shot; he used to shoot 35mm on an old all-manual Zenit, doing his own developing and printing. However, I've yet to unearth that material: perhaps most or all of it was lost or deliberately discarded after his first marriage ended in divorce.

When my parents became a couple, they switched to shooting colour negatives, mostly for financial reasons. Sadly much of this material is in poor condition. The negatives that I have located are all jumbled up, with many of them seemingly having been lost or thrown away as they were felt to have little value once any desired reprints had been ordered. Quite a lot of pictures from my early years were shot on 126 film using cheap cameras. I doubt these images are worth scanning from the negatives even if I can find suitable film holders because of the poor resolution. The rest of the analog material was shot on 35mm colour negative film, typically on decent quality point-and-shoot cameras, so I would expect those negatives to be of better quality than the 126 material.

The prints were what was valued in the colour negative days, with the most valuable prints mounted in albums that were made of materials that were definitely not archival. Most of these albums are those awful ones where you lift a plastic cover sheet and stick the prints directly onto the low-tack background of the page, then lower the plastic cover sheet. I hope those albums are no longer made, as they are a dreadful option to store and display anything of more than ephemeral value. With the passage of time, the glue has dried up, set hard and has yellowed, so there is little hope of ever removing the prints without severe damage. Worse still, the album pages and especially the glue are not acid-free. Fortunately, very few of the images show obvious acid damage; almost all are merely faded and permanently stuck to the album.

After experimenting on a few pages, I think the only hope with the equipment that I have to hand is to lift the cover sheet gently, scan the prints without removing them from the page, and then carefully clean the scanner glass to remove any glue residue. I wonder if a better option is to buy a copy stand and suitable lighting so that I can photograph the prints in situ. I would welcome any advice. If I scan this material, I am going to spend ages cleaning the scanner and waiting for the solvent to evaporate before I can scan the next page. I realise that I should consider buying Peter Krogh's book on digitising photos.

There is also an extensive collection of my late grandmother's albums, which are in a similar state to my parents' albums. I don't have any of my grandmother's negatives to my knowledge - I think they were all thrown away. Some of the older material in those albums is black and white. Her mother died at a fairly young age, after which her father tore up and burned almost all the family photos. My grandmother always lamented the loss of what her father destroyed; she had very few photographs from before her marriage. I would like to preserve some of these photos to pass on to the family.

I am aware of the importance of digitising this material, as the originals will only deteriorate further. The time might come when I have to downsize, which might force me to pass on or discard most of the originals. There is also the ongoing risk of losing them to fire or flood.

Any advice on how to tackle this project would be appreciated.
Unfortunately these are problems that we face in our quest to preserve our visual history. There were a number of good discussions that touched on some of this in the forum, and a number of members had way more advice than I can offer in one post. I recommend doing a search on either "Vuescan" or "Epson" with me as the author and several of those threads will show up in the search results. It is a good place to continue as folks did discuss these, and other, issues. I know that when I have the time to resume this work myself, I will be facing those exact same issues, and I am not looking forward to it.

Good luck,

--Ken
 
@David_W

I cannot find it now, but from one of the scanning threads on here I found a link to a site which sells camera holding/frame gear. The frame holds the camera in place to effectively use as a scanner. It looked very useful, but waiting until we have time to tackle the project of scanning old photos.

Tim
 
Hello,

By way of introduction, I’m 70 years old and wanting to digitize a lifetime of photos, slides, and 35mm film. I am not much of a photographer, although I did have a Nikkormat and a dark room as a teenager. I mainly want to preserve memories and pass them along to my children and grandchildren. My plan:

  • Purchase an Epson V850 Pro (done)
  • Use Silverfast to scan everything. (Is Silverfast even a viable business? I sent them help requests days ago about being unable to unlock their software and haven’t heard back from them.)
  • Use Lightroom Classic to tag my photos
  • Copy my photos and the Lightroom Catalog onto external disks or thumb drives and give each of my four children one. If they are motivated enough to install Lightroom, they can benefit from my tagging. If not, at least they have all the images in folders.
Have just finished reading the Quick Start Guide and next need to purchase The Missing FAQ.

Any words of wisdom as I embark on this effort?

Thanks, and I’m sure I’ll have more questions later,

Jay
I use Silverfast and I find that it does a much better job than VueScan for Kodachrome and for high-contrast slides and negatives. To be clear, once I get a usable TIFF I do all the rest of my post work in Lightroom, same as with DSLR photos.


That all said I am NOT a Silverfast expert in general. I also have the goal of preserviing photos for children and grandchildren.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top