CC App Yet another New Computer Question

[Paul_DS256]

Lightroom Version Number

14.0.1

Operating System

1. Windows 10

Yes, I've seen how many times this question has been asked but I'm hoping my concern below is narrow enough. It is a basic PC vs MAC question and revolves around the rapidly use of the GPU.

• On a PC desktop, I can, and have upgraded my video card several times as Adobe requirements change. I feel this an advantage going forward in terms of supporting HW changes. I'm also wondering if Adobe sometime in the future will support multiple video cards.
• As much as I like the MAC, with it's new CPU, I'm concerned that I am looking at whole computer replacement in the future to support Adobe GPU requirements.

As much as I do not like Windows, I feel staying with a PC desktop is likely the safest choice. My use of LrC is fairly light but I can see using more of the AI capabities in the future.

Are my concerns warranted or am I chasing a red herring.

Thanks

 

[clee01l]

I don’t think AMD and Intel has anything in the pipeline to compare with Apple’s unified Silicon platform. And Apple has an head start on future development.

That said, Apple has included CPU, GPU and memory all in one chip. That means that it is not possible to upgrade and Apple has been moving away from upgradable computers for a number of years.

Taking that as a given, technology has been advancing so that (for me) upgrading to a new computer every 3 years has been reasonable.

Once I got over “paying the Apple tax”, I’ve been happy with Macs for nearly 15 years.

I don’t miss having to spend all of the time “under the hood” keeping my Windows machine running properly.

If you want a cheaper Machine, go with Windows. If you want to avoid hassling with your computer, go with Apple and “pay the Apple tax”.


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[ClickCardo]

I started LR on mac. About 2015 I switched to Windows chasing the newer hardware + open architecture. Now in past 2 years I'm back with Apple and very happy otherwise. Just trying to use LR again and moving it to Apple silicon so cannot comment there. For me upgrading to new Apple computer every few years will be worthwhile for now.

 

[Paul_DS256]

Taking that as a given, technology has been advancing so that (for me) upgrading to a new computer every 3 years has been reasonable.

Thanks for insight. Not something I'm use to. My current desktop is from 2014 and I drive a 2009 Toyota ;-)
When you upgrade, can you 'trade in' your older MAC or do you have to sell it yourself?

 

[clee01l]

Thanks for insight. Not something I'm use to. My current desktop is from 2014 and I drive a 2009 Toyota ;-)
When you upgrade, can you 'trade in' your older MAC or do you have to sell it yourself?

It depends on the age and condition of the Mac. I had a 2 year old M1 I Mac that I traded in for a M2 Ultra Mac Studio in Jan. Before that I gave my Old 27” iMac to my SIL. And the one before that, I sold.

In June I traded my 7 year old Pacifica for a Ford Maverick PU. The car before the 2017 Pacifica was a 2000 Toyota. Cars last longer than computers because the technology is not so rapidly changing. But that is a gap that is closing.


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[Paul_DS256]

It depends on the age and condition of the Mac. I had a 2 year old M1 I Mac that I traded in for a M2 Ultra Mac Studio in Jan. Before that I gave my Old 27” iMac to my SIL. And the one before that, I sold.

Thanks for the insights. I'll consider it.

Of course there is always the Adobe Nuclear option. Switch to Linux and use DarkTable and GIMP for my photo work ;-) I just switch a 2009 MACbook from an non-upgradeable MACos to Linux MINT (MATE) and am pleased with the increased performance. This is my travel computer but am now learning DarkTable (free) while maintaining Adobe products on my home Windows desktop.

 

[PhilBurton]

I have an aging Lenovo T61p that I got around 2009. It tends to overheat, so I keep it around only for real emergencies. It runs Windows 10, so after Oct. 2025, the current release of LrC won't run on it. But for emergencies I would be able to run LrC 14. Works for me. Maybe also for some other people with really old laptops.

 

[Conrad Chavez]

…It is a basic PC vs MAC question and revolves around the rapidly use of the GPU…Are my concerns warranted or am I chasing a red herring.

Here’s a quick summary of where things stand today:

Windows: Although Apple got ahead on mobile efficiency for a few years by moving to ARM, for desktop computers Intel/AMD have always been and still are ahead on both maximum CPU/GPU performance and hardware flexibility/upgradeability. On mobile, Windows is closing the gap on power/thermal efficiency compared to Apple because of two developments: Windows on ARM running on the Snapdragon X processor, and the Intel Core Ultra (Lunar Lake) platform, both available now. (Adobe support for ARM on Windows is currently uneven.)

Mac: Although the GPU is not upgradeable, its design has held up well for photographic uses including AI in Adobe apps. (If you were talking 3D and games, PC GPUs remain better.) The M1 class Macs from 4 years ago are still good computers for Lightroom Classic and despite all the changes in GPU requirements, those aging Macs still qualify for AI features and full GPU acceleration today if they have enough Unified Memory to keep the GPU fed. If you choose Mac then the key is to get the right forward-looking specs at purchase, with enough memory, storage, and CPU/GPU cores to avoid falling short of system requirements too soon. That should keep it a satisfying workstation for at least 5 years. You do not have to go as far as paying for the expensive maximum level of all specs; midrange might be enough. Right now I think my M1 Pro with 32GB Unified Memory will easily make it to 5 years with Lightroom Classic and Photoshop, and it’s a lot less powerful than the M4 Macs announced this week.

One way to look at that is, if you normally get a new PC every 5 years or so, then an Apple Silicon Mac that’s configured with appropriate options at purchase will probably last that long, so there should be no change to your typical workstation replacement schedule. But if you like to keep a PC significantly longer than 5 years by updating its components, that’s a reason to go PC.

 

[PhilBurton]

Here’s a quick summary of where things stand today:

Windows: Although Apple got ahead on mobile efficiency for a few years by moving to ARM, for desktop computers Intel/AMD have always been and still are ahead on both maximum CPU/GPU performance and hardware flexibility/upgradeability. On mobile, Windows is closing the gap on power/thermal efficiency compared to Apple because of two developments: Windows on ARM running on the Snapdragon X processor, and the Intel Lunar Lake platform, both available now. (Adobe support for ARM on Windows is currently uneven.)

Windows running on an ARM CPU (e.g. some Microsoft Surface models) can be problematic. AMD's next generation of CPUs will be available within weeks.

 

[prbimages]

It runs Windows 10, so after Oct. 2025, the current release of LrC won't run on it.

Do we know this to be true? I understand that Windows 10 will not be supported by Microsoft after October 2025, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Lightroom won't run on it. Have there been any definitive statements about this?

 

[clee01l]

Do we know this to be true? I understand that Windows 10 will not be supported by Microsoft after October 2025, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Lightroom won't run on it. Have there been any definitive statements about this?

Adobe has a policy of not supporting their apps on unsupported operating systems. While LrC 15 and forward may run on Windows 10, it will be unsupported and if there are features introduced that are incompatible with Windows 10, the app may be broken.


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[PhilBurton]

Adobe has a policy of not supporting their apps on unsupported operating systems.

No major vendor would support their program on an unsupported version of Windows (or MacOS), period.

To clarify, your current LrC 14 runs on Windows 10 and will continue to do so, but LrC 15 will be released without Windows 10 support.

if there are features introduced that are incompatible with Windows 10, the app may be broken.

Or is there is a bug, Adobe doesn't want to waste time only to find out that's it is present when running on unsupported OS's.

 

[BobT]

It's a personal thing. I service, modify and repair my, I mean, our Jeep and trailer. I build, maintain and upgrade my PC. It gives me satisfaction which adds to photography. That sort of thing is becoming rare and not helped by manufacturers deliberately putting hurdles in the way.
However, I fully understand those that see it as an unwanted distraction to their main purpose, photography. Apple removes the hassle but, of course, at a cost. So ask yourself, are you a tinkerer or a user. In terms of performance, realistically the choice is moot.

 

[PhilBurton]

It's a personal thing. I service, modify and repair my, I mean, our Jeep and trailer.

I used to do my own car work, when a tuneup meant checking the gap on plugs and adjusting the dwell angle. Last car I worked on like that was my 1982 Datsun 280ZX. For newer cars, fuggediabodid.

I build, maintain and upgrade my PC. It gives me satisfaction which adds to photography.

I also build and maintain desktops, and maintain laptops, based on residual interest from my career.

That sort of thing is becoming rare and not helped by manufacturers deliberately putting hurdles in the way.

For autos, it's a tradeoff between being able to reduce weight and complying with emission controls, and support for home mechanics, who don't have much of a voice anymore.

However, I fully understand those that see it as an unwanted distraction to their main purpose, photography. Apple removes the hassle but, of course, at a cost. So ask yourself, are you a tinkerer or a user. In terms of performance, realistically the choice is moot.

The Apple vs. Intel/Microsoft argument goes much deeper.

 

[clee01l]

I used to do my own car work, when a tuneup meant checking the gap on plugs and adjusting the dwell angle. Last car I worked on like that was my 1982 Datsun 280ZX. For newer cars, fuggediabodid.


I also build and maintain desktops, and maintain laptops, based on residual interest from my career.



For autos, it's a tradeoff between being able to reduce weight and complying with emission controls, and support for home mechanics, who don't have much of a voice anymore.

The Apple vs. Intel/Microsoft argument goes much deeper.

About 1990, I acquired a '66 Mustang convertible. I was able to handle most of the car work myself. Somewhere in the '80s service stations stopped accepting used motor oil and I no longer had a place to properly dispose of my oil changes. Also by 1990 or so the computer technology in Automobiles became too sophisticated for home mechanics to handle without proper (expensive) equipment. In about 2000, I acquired my first recumbent bike. Local shops did not have the ability to work on these properly and I was always upgrading components. I did my own bike maintenance up until about 5 years ago when I stopped riding when my hip was replaced.

Once I got a great deal on a Windows computer. When I went to pick it up, they wheeled it out unassembled. I assembled it and did my own upgrades until I got tired of all the time I spent tweaking Windows to keep it working properly and keeping all of the detritus out of the system settings. I pride myself in being able to state that i never needed to wipe the HDD and start over.

When I retired in 2008, I no longer need a Windows Machine to run Windows apps. Then Apple's slogan was "It just works!" I got my first iMac and have never looked back. Instead of spending most og my time tuning a Windows machine, I come here to try to answer questions.

 

[BruceCrawford]

I just found out Lightroom 14 requires minimum Ventura on Mac.

I'm on a "Trash Can" Mac Pro, which I bought second hand as barely used in 2020. These were still the 'current' model until 2019 I believe. Mine dates from 2018. I may be 'old school' but six years doesn't seem that old to me. It does everything I need it to, at a fast enough speed for what I need. But I can't install anything beyond Monterey on it, so looks like I'm stuck with Lightroom 13 for the foreseeable because I'm not replacing a perfectly fine computer simply because of an update to Lightroom. Besides, I need to keep this for as long as I can as I want to stay on Intel for now due to some audio software I use which doesn't work on Apple Silicon.

 

[clee01l]

I just found out Lightroom 14 requires minimum Ventura on Mac.

I'm on a "Trash Can" Mac Pro, which I bought second hand as barely used in 2020. These were still the 'current' model until 2019 I believe. Mine dates from 2018. I may be 'old school' but six years doesn't seem that old to me. It does everything I need it to, at a fast enough speed for what I need. But I can't install anything beyond Monterey on it, so looks like I'm stuck with Lightroom 13 for the foreseeable because I'm not replacing a perfectly fine computer simply because of an update to Lightroom. Besides, I need to keep this for as long as I can as I want to stay on Intel for now due to some audio software I use which doesn't work on Apple Silicon.

Typically I have upgraded computers about every 3 years to take advantage of technology advances. Adobe apps follow the same support that the OS manufacturers follow which is about every 3 years. So a 3 year upgrade path seems to be typical and not unreasonable.

Growing up in the ‘50s & ‘60s it was common to trade cars every 4 years. But 4 year old trade-ins still had some value and were sold in the used car market. Now automobiles last much longer but technology advances are rapidly occurring in that field too.

If your 6 y.o. Computer meets your needs then a one year old LrC 13 should meet your needs too. If you want to take advantage of new technology like Generative Remove, DeNoise, then you need the hardware designed to run it.

Note there are still some people that are running the Perpetual license LR6 on newer hardware.


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[PhilBurton]

I just found out Lightroom 14 requires minimum Ventura on Mac.

I'm on a "Trash Can" Mac Pro, which I bought second hand as barely used in 2020. These were still the 'current' model until 2019 I believe. Mine dates from 2018. I may be 'old school' but six years doesn't seem that old to me. It does everything I need it to, at a fast enough speed for what I need.

It is not that old, if you think about kitchen appliances or autos. But electronics, broadly speaking, has much shorter life cycles. And any company that wants to bring out competitive products based on latest available components, will have to leave older products behind at some point. As a banker once said, "When the music is playing, you have to get up and dance."

But I can't install anything beyond Monterey on it, so looks like I'm stuck with Lightroom 13 for the foreseeable because I'm not replacing a perfectly fine computer simply because of an update to Lightroom. Besides, I need to keep this for as long as I can as I want to stay on Intel for now due to some audio software I use which doesn't work on Apple Silicon.

Why not keep your current system as dedicated to the audio software, and get a new system for photo and general use.

 

[BruceCrawford]

Typically I have upgraded computers about every 3 years to take advantage of technology advances. Adobe apps follow the same support that the OS manufacturers follow which is about every 3 years. So a 3 year upgrade path seems to be typical and not unreasonable.

Growing up in the ‘50s & ‘60s it was common to trade cars every 4 years. But 4 year old trade-ins still had some value and were sold in the used car market. Now automobiles last much longer but technology advances are rapidly occurring in that field too.

If your 6 y.o. Computer meets your needs then a one year old LrC 13 should meet your needs too. If you want to take advantage of new technology like Generative Remove, DeNoise, then you need the hardware designed to run it.

Note there are still some people that are running the Perpetual license LR6 on newer hardware.


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It is not that old, if you think about kitchen appliances or autos. But electronics, broadly speaking, has much shorter life cycles. And any company that wants to bring out competitive products based on latest available components, will have to leave older products behind at some point. As a banker once said, "When the music is playing, you have to get up and dance."


Why not keep your current system as dedicated to the audio software, and get a new system for photo and general use.

I get all the above, don't have a major issue with it as such. It just slightly annoys me that, as a comparison bearing in mind i'm using a Mac Pro, a reasonably specified semi Pro or Pro level PC from 5-10 years ago will likely still run the latest current version of Windows whereas MacOS has these cut-off's whereby hardware becomes obsolete due to not being able to upgrade the OS after just a few years. It's the only aspect of Mac that slightly irks me, but I recognise there are valid technical reasons for it.

As an aside, I am able to run Generative Remove on my version 13 without any issues. Hence am in no hurry to upgrade just yet.

 

[clee01l]

PC from 5-10 years ago will likely still run the latest current version of Windows whereas MacOS has these cut-off's whereby hardware becomes obsolete

Perhaps this is because Microsoft compatible hardware has not advanced technologically as fast as Apple. Keep in mind that Microsoft mostly relies upon other hardware manufactures to run their operating systems. The biggest advances have been going from an 8 bit architecture to 16, then 32, and now 64 bit architecture All based upon an Intel chip or a compatible AMD chip.

Obsolete is probably not the correct term either. If you recall LR6 still runs on MacOS v12 or perhaps later even though the 32bit installer is obsolete. Only if you want the latest technological advances are you compelled to upgrade hardware and operating systems No one is turning your 6 year old computer into a doorstop.

 

[PhilBurton]

Perhaps this is because Microsoft compatible hardware has not advanced technologically as fast as Apple. Keep in mind that Microsoft mostly relies upon other hardware manufactures to run their operating systems.

And third parties to write all that software that underlies the Windows ecosystem.

The introduction of Windows on ARM CPUs will prove interesting to watch. How much software will be ported over successfully? Me, I have no idea, but I'm gong to guess that a lot of software will never be ported over, e.g. older versions of all Adobe software, not to mention software that has been orphaned for any reason, but that people still run.

 

[Paul_DS256]

Remember me; the OP? I had to chuckle when I came back to this post I started and saw the twists and turns it took. Very good conversation but I thought I'd share what I decided on.

Drum roll please ; MAC Mini!

I was about to purchase a Windows 11 PC with i7, 32GB of memory, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD and 16GB NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060Ti. Price CA$1,650 I was out for lunch with friends, 3 of which all deal with the same MAC Dealer here in town and had high praises for him. I called him and he explained I thought I needed a MAC Mini M4, 32GB memory, 1TB SSD and USB-C Adapter for my 2nd monitor. Price CA$1,851. BTW, he didn't think I needed the 32GB memory but I wanted some future proofing. I'll also be reusing some of my HDD's for storage.

So as I think others have said, the comparison in configuration between PC and MAC has been turned on it's head since the introduction of the M* architecture.

BTW, Windows actually gave me a push in the direction of the MAC. My latest problem was that applications took minutes to launch. No resource constraint issues. Google revealed others had similar problems with no resolution. I found the Windows Update service had a problem and a Trouble Shooter had to fix something. An update later and all's well except for me wanting to stay with Windows.

 

[clee01l]

BTW, Windows actually gave me a push in the direction of the MAC. My latest problem was that applications took minutes to launch. No resource constraint issues.

I think Microsoft is currently behind the curve in the world of personal computers. I have no doubt that this will change. As Microsoft is already beginning to explore the use of the ARM architecture found with the Apple Silicon chips. ARM uses a more straightforward system called RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computing), which helps save energy and makes instructions fast and easy.

 

[Paul_DS256]

As Microsoft is already beginning to explore the use of the ARM architecture found with the Apple Silicon chips.

Yup, aware of ARM. I worked for DEC in the '80's when they stared to developed their latest ALPHA architecture on ARM instead of building it themselves.

 

[karl.nyhus]

As Microsoft is already beginning to explore the use of the ARM architecture found with the Apple Silicon chips.

Beginning to explore the use of the ARM architecture?

For at least the second time.

Windows on Arm Never Quite Took Off — Is That All About to Change? | Insight]

Windows on Arm, however, has had a more challenging start. The modification first debuted in 2012 as Windows RT, when Microsoft partnered with Qualcomm to release a version of Windows 8 that could run on Arm-based processors ... However, Windows RT could only run software rebuilt for Arm, and because of poor app support, it failed to gain traction in the market.