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XMP's Again!

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I have to be missing something I thought I understood.
From day one (LR4) I have never checked the "create XMP box" in Catalog settings. I always shoot RAW and I never use an outside editor, etc. I do at times use Mac Photos to edit pics shot by others when I edit a newsletter but those photos are always in a separate Photos Library and stored on a separate external HD.
However, browsing through my LR photos on my external 4TB drive (which only has LR photos stored on it) I see, for example, two files with the same file number. One is the RAW file and the other is an XMP file.
For example: 1155 RAW, Aug 31, 2016; 1155 XMP Feb.14, 2018. All of my RAW files have XMP's attached and the XMP date is different from that on the RAW files. The files were not edited, printed, etc.

Why the XMP creation, and the different date?

I may have known at one time, but I definitely have forgotten why.

thanks for your insights,

aj
 
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Presumably on Feb 14, 2018 you open the Raw file in Photoshop. Lightroom automatically created an XMP file to pass the Lightroom Classic adjustments. The date you are seeing in MacOS Finder is the date that file was created.
 
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Presumably on Feb 14, 2018 you open the Raw file in Photoshop. Lightroom automatically created an XMP file to pass the Lightroom Classic adjustments. The date you are seeing in MacOS Finder is the date that file was created.
No, Lightroom does not create an XMP file when it sends an image to Photoshop, so that cannot be the explanation. More likely the OP just hit Cmd-S on Feb 14, 2018 for some reason he does not remember.
 
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Thanks for your thought. Looking though most all of the 8,000 or so images on the one external drive, they all have an xmp file attached; and, all have different dates than the original file! Even looking back at some photos on 2008. So, did I do something on a brooad scale with ALL photos at some point in time? There is no consistency in the XMP dates across the files. Was a metadata change across a range of files?
But why am I getting the XMP's. that is confusing to me.

Thanks for helping me on the issue.

aj
 
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The different dates mean nothing, as Cletus already explained. An XMP file always has a different file creation date, because it is created by Lightroom at some point while the raw file was created earlier, in the camera. Maybe you did have ‘Automatically write changes to XMP’ turned on for a while.
 
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I failed to mention that none of my recent photos show any difference in dates between the two files; but they have not been edited yet. But, they all have XMP files attached to them.

Perhaps at various times, I selected categories of photos and changed the metadata for a large grouping, i.e. Animals. Marine, etc.

But still cannot figure out why the XMP's are created.

ajz
 
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I droped in a quick screen shot so that you can see what the files look like.
 

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We know what XMP files look like… I would stop worrying about them. XMP files are extra. Lightroom does not need them, and is not hampered in any way by their presence. Just ignore it.
 
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There are a number (but not a large number) of ways it can happen, though the dates and contents can give a clue.

There are many programs which create XMP files associated with file ingestion (LR is normally not one). So when I import via Photo Mechanic, then import the result of that later into LR, I get an XMP for each file. Don't really want it, but it comes in anyway (it carries some of my metadata including crop I do in PM).

There are programs that might create them as a normal course of use, e.g. if you started using Bridge for a while, and made changes.

If you ever do a write-metadata with a bunch of photos selected, it will write out thousands of XMP files. Note that some plugins (the date/time change one for example) recommend you do a save-metadata before running them. I am not sure if any plugins can themselves write XMP (I presume not or that one would do so instead of ask the user).

If you ever had the option to auto-write set it would write them.

Maybe there are more, but those three come to mind. If you check the range of creation date of the XMP's, and modification date of the XMP's, you can zero in on when (maybe multiple whens) it was done. If creation = modification it was a one-off, if there are many modifications it may have happened more than once (it could also be from other things, like a file rename, which carries the XMP along).

Also, if you are not seeing metadata conflict indications, then it is likely NOT a result of a subsequent (after creation) change by a third party program. You do not get the conflict simply from the XMP being out of date.

Finally if you really want to sleuth around, take one, rename it to .XMP_SAVE, then for its image do a write metadata -- you get a new XMP. Do a comparison between, it will tell you what has changed SINCE the original XMP was written. There may be a clue somewhere in there.

But they are harmless and small, I wouldn't loose any sleep. I think you can just delete them -- anyone know of a reason not to?
 
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No, Lightroom does not create an XMP file when it sends an image to Photoshop, so that cannot be the explanation. More likely the OP just hit Cmd-S on Feb 14, 2018 for some reason he does not remember.

In some earlier version of Lightroom, an XMP file was created before editing in Photoshop. I think that has changed and Opening as a smart object or similar process if now used.
I never create XMPs and I have some older XMP files created for the original NEF and a PS created derivative TIFF of the same name.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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In some earlier version of Lightroom, an XMP file was created before editing in Photoshop.
We've had this discussion before, and I do not think Lightroom ever created XMP files on sending images to Photoshop. It certainly did not in 2018.
 
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We've had this discussion before, and I do not think Lightroom ever created XMP files on sending images to Photoshop. It certainly did not in 2018.
I've checked back as far as LR3, and that didn't do it either. Can't speak for LR1 and 2, I don't have them installed (but sad to say, I've still got the downloads!).
 
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I've checked back as far as LR3, and that didn't do it either. Can't speak for LR1 and 2, I don't have them installed (but sad to say, I've still got the downloads!).
Did it do so when you had a mismatch of ACR (in PS) and LR versions, back when most people had separate purchase cycles for the two that happened more than now. You got an unusual popup, you could continue but it wrote out.... well, something. TIFF and no XMP? XMP? Not sure.
 
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Did it do so when you had a mismatch of ACR (in PS) and LR versions, back when most people had separate purchase cycles for the two that happened more than now. You got an unusual popup, you could continue but it wrote out.... well, something. TIFF and no XMP? XMP? Not sure.
No. When you have a mismatch, Lightroom will generate the TIFF or PSD itself and send that to Photoshop.
 
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I've checked back as far as LR3, and that didn't do it either. Can't speak for LR1 and 2, I don't have them installed (but sad to say, I've still got the downloads!).

You're right, LR1 and LR2 didn't either. They used BridgeTalk to send the metadata along with the raw file, and I'd be surprised if that's changed.
 
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Did it do so when you had a mismatch of ACR (in PS) and LR versions, back when most people had separate purchase cycles for the two that happened more than now. You got an unusual popup, you could continue but it wrote out.... well, something. TIFF and no XMP? XMP? Not sure.
No. When you have a mismatch, Lightroom will generate the TIFF or PSD itself and send that to Photoshop.
What Johan said.
Also, the mis-match in this case is the wrong-way round, i.e. the mis-match dialog only happens when Lightroom contains a newer/later version of Camera Raw compared to the Camera Raw plug-in in Photoshop. So a much older version of ACR in LR3 today wouldn't be concerned about the 13.3 version of the plug-in in today's PS.
 

PhilBurton

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I use XMPs only because I'm a "belts and suspenders" kind of guy.
 
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Well, thank you all for the suggestions. Ferguson mentioned Plug-ins which I had not thought of.. I do run NIK; a Duplicate program occasionally and Topaz once in a while.
Yesterday imported more pics directly from the S Card into LR - XMP's were created again.
I realize the XMP's are not large, just trying to understand what was generating them. I only add my copyright and file name added upon import.
I recall something about proprietary raw files, that the metadata has to be stored separately. Perhaps this added info of mine causes the XMP file to be created. Hmm.. in an XMP sidecar file then?

Thank you all for your time. I really appreciated your thoughts,

ajz
 
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Yesterday imported more pics directly from the S Card into LR - XMP's were created again.
I realize the XMP's are not large, just trying to understand what was generating them. I only add my copyright and file name added upon import.
If you have ‘Automatically write metadata to XMP’ checked in the preferences, then adding copyright on import is enough to create XMP sidecar files on import.
 
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We've had this discussion before, and I do not think Lightroom ever created XMP files on sending images to Photoshop.
LR 6.2.1 introduced a bug where Photo > Photo Merge would write .xmp sidecars regardless of the setting of Automatically Write Changes Into XMP. It was fixed in LR 6.6:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/conv...ite-changes-into-xmp/5f5f458c4b561a3d4252e86c

I have a vague half-memory that there might have been at least one other such bug, but I can't find any record of it.
 
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