Workflow to get keywords to show up in LR Web and Android

[SaraLH]

Operating System

1. Windows 11

I want to migrate from the ever-more-expensive SmugMug to a workflow that only involves Lightroom. My goal is to have a set of smart albums (collections) that will be uploaded to my LR space that show all metadata but will never be edited there in any way. I only want edit changes from Lightroom Classic to be syncronized to the cloud. This infrastructure is only so I can view photos or post to forums when not at home.
Right now I have the 20GB Subscription but if need be will switch to the 1TB - it's only 6€ per month more and still cheaper than LR subscription plus SmugMug.

I have no interest in switching to solely using Desktop, as the idea of a flat-file keyword system gives me the heebie jeebies and I use the map module regularly.

After I gleefully syncronized over 13000 photos directly to the cloud from Classic I realized that no keywords were exported as they had been in previous versions.
What I have discovered is that if I open "cloudy" (LR Desktop) and from there create a web album, then the keywords are present - online I don't care about the hierarchy, I just want to be able to search on keywords. This would seem to solve my keyword problems, but creates the extra step of having to open LR Desktop when I want to sync collections (albums). A seemly small price to pay, I think.

What do I need to consider before launching on this project (other than unysncing all previously synced photos and deleting the existing smart previews)? Will the flattening out of the keyword structure in the cloud have any effect on Classic? Am I correct in thinking that LR Desktop syncs the entire DNG file to the cloud and not just the smart preview (hence the need to possibly change my subscription)? What prompts a new sync in LR Desktop: edits, metadata changes? Does it recognize changes from Classic? Do I need to save changes to XMP before every sync?

Thanks!

 

[clee01l]

The 20GB subscription has been grandfathered only for existing customers You can continue with that or update your subscription to 1TB of cloud storage. There is no price increase if you pay annually instead of monthly.

That said, keywords are only synced one time, one way. If you synced an image from Classic the keywords it contains THEN those present at the time of sync are the only ones that are sent.

Images synced FROM Classic are sent as proxy smart preview DNGs that are limited in size to 2560px on the long edge. These do not count against your storage plan limits. If you want full size images in the Adobe cloud you need to migrate your Classic catalog into the Adobe cloud using the Desktop app.

Further more The Desktop app has a more robust Sensei search capability. In the example below a search on keywords will return not only those images which contain the keyword "backyard" but also images that were shot in a backyard (location)

 

[Jim Wilde]

That said, keywords are only synced one time, one way. If you synced an image from Classic the keywords it contains THEN those present at the time of sync are the only ones that are sent.

Images synced FROM Classic are sent as proxy smart preview DNGs that are limited in size to 2560px on the long edge. These do not count against your storage plan limits. If you want full size images in the Adobe cloud you need to migrate your Classic catalog into the Adobe cloud using the Desktop app.

1. No, that "one time, one way" keyword sync is currently no longer possible, it was removed in the 13.3 update.

2. Migrating a catalog isn't the only way to get originals into the cloud, you can sync the images from LrC as Smart Previews then import the same images into LrD and it will replace the smart previews in the cloud with the originals.

 

[clee01l]

1. No, that "one time, one way" keyword sync is currently no longer possible, it was removed in the 13.3 update.

So If I understand you Keywords no longer sync either way. Before I posted that reply, I added keywords to an image in classic, waited for the sync process to complete and no keywords show up in Lightroom for the web. Additionally I added an image that was not synced to the "All Synced photos collection and waited until it showed up in Lightroom desktop.
Lightroom for the Web

Lightroom Classic (same image newly synced)

Lightroom Desktop (same Image, Smart Preview)

1. No, that "one time, one way" keyword sync is currently no longer possible, it was removed in the 13.3 update.

2. Migrating a catalog isn't the only way to get originals into the cloud, you can sync the images from LrC as Smart Previews then import the same images into LrD and it will replace the smart previews in the cloud with the originals.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Sorry Cletus, I'm not sure what you are telling me with those screenshots. I don't see any keywords in either LrWeb or LrDesktop, which is exactly what I expected. Unless Adobe have slipped that old feature back into play without notification, then AFAIK it is still no longer possible to use that old "first-time sync" trick to get keywords from LrC into the cloud.

Unfortunately I'm not able to test at the moment, so I can't be 100% certain.

 

[SaraLH]

Yes, exactly. The ONLY reason I am considering using the extra step of adding the pictures in LR Desktop and making Web albums from there is that keywords no longer export at all from Classic. [Insert rant here] If I take this step it seems that I will need to shut off sync in Classic, which is slightly inconvenient as I currently sync the pictures from my cell phone using LR Android.

 

[SaraLH]

To be clear, I don't need originals in the cloud as I'm happy with my current hard disk storage and multiple backups. I also don't need/want to edit on the road. (Wastes my vacation time!) I'm just looking for a way of viewing selected photos while underway and to send links to galleries or photos to people I choose. Like an online gallery, imagine that!

Actually, the "send a link" gallery feature in the LR web version is just what I am looking for, if only I could get the keywords there...

 

[clee01l]

AFAIK it is still no longer possible to use that old "first-time sync" trick to get keywords from LrC into the cloud.

That is what I now understand from your earlier remarks and from the testing I did with both a Smart Preview from classic and a Full size image in the Adobe Cloud. It is a shame that syncing no longer works FROM Classic .

if only I could get the keywords there...

Apparently the only way now to get your desired keywords is to add them using one of the Lightroom apps.

 

[clee01l]

To be clear, I don't need originals in the cloud as I'm happy with my current hard disk storage

Full Size originals become important IF you want to export from the cloud or Lightroom. The Proxy smart Preview DNG that gets stored from Classic sync is only 2560px on the long edge. I have started using Adobe Portfolio which integrates well with the Adobe Cloud albums. Having smaller proxy files becomes noticeable in Portfolio. With a 32" 4K (3840X2160) monitor, 2560px images don't allow for a full screen display. It was for this reason that I migrated my complete catalog to Lightroom and the Adobe Cloud

 

[SaraLH]

Thank you both for your detailled answers!

I had a brainwave and found a solution that, while not perfect, will solve the problem of getting the keywords out of LR Classic and into the cloud. In LR Classic I have a "publish to folder" collection set where photos, exported as full-size jpegs, meeting the same criteria I want to use for web viewing are exported to my Synology NAS. (While the NAS is asdequate for home viewing, I don't want to open it to be available for the web because of a) privacy issues and b) it's painfully slow in that scenario.)
When I access this folder structure in LR Desktop and copy the photos from these folders to Albums on the web, then the keywords and all metadata are included and I have the extra bonus that the jpeg files are smaller than the dngs, taking up less web space. The other advantage is that these pictures are not in my Classic catalog, so there's no danger of anything getting edited and synced back to Classic by mistake.
Naturally, if I make massive editing or keywords changes to groups of photos or add or delete, I'll have to manually delete/re-upload to the web albums. This doesn't happen too much, but when it does, I'll just have to deal with it.
So now I have to get to work and start uploading. Thanks again!

 

[Jim Wilde]

The other advantage is that these pictures are not in my Classic catalog, so there's no danger of anything getting edited and synced back to Classic by mistake.

Just a heads-up.....if you currently use an LrC catalog which has cloud syncing enabled, then those jpegs that you import directly to the cloud will automatically download to your local hard drive and be added to that LrC catalog.

Another thing....I'm not clear from your posts if the albums that you intend to create will be viewed by people other than yourself, i.e. outside your account. If you do intend to make the albums available to other people, be aware that there is currently no way for those people to see the image keyword data. Adobe does not currently expose it in the standard LrWeb shared album view, even if "Show Metadata" has been selected in the shared album settings. However, because the keyword data will have been saved in the jpegs, that data will be available to view (via file system or most image viewers) should the album be downloaded.

 

[SaraLH]

Just a heads-up.....if you currently use an LrC catalog which has cloud syncing enabled, then those jpegs that you import directly to the cloud will automatically download to your local hard drive and be added to that LrC catalog.

Another thing....I'm not clear from your posts if the albums that you intend to create will be viewed by people other than yourself, i.e. outside your account. If you do intend to make the albums available to other people, be aware that there is currently no way for those people to see the image keyword data. Adobe does not currently expose it in the standard LrWeb shared album view, even if "Show Metadata" has been selected in the shared album settings. However, because the keyword data will have been saved in the jpegs, that data will be available to view (via file system or most image viewers) should the album be downloaded.

Yes, syncing is now turned off in LR C. I've learned over the years is that I am the only one who is interested in my keywords (you've got to be honest with yourself!) but what is good is that in the "gallery view" in the LR web link you do see captions and location. And I use "Search and Replace" to append my captions with the location info before they're exported.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[SaraLH]

The joke is on me...
Last week I spent 15-20 hours making smart collections in LRC, exporting 15000 pictures as full-size jpgs to an internal disk with plenty of space, importing those into LR Desktop and uploading those to the cloud. All so I could have my keywords in the Cloud.
So today I install LRC 15.4 and what is the newest "bug fix" (yes, listed under bug fixes on the Adobe website)? Keyword sync, of course.
Another 20 hours of my life frittered away. Sigh.
That being said, I am VERY happy about the new/old feature.

 

[clee01l]

That being said, I am VERY happy about the new/old feature.

When you check the check box in Preferences, Keywords will only sync for new metadata changes on images. To get previously synced images to sync keywords, you need to select them and click on the (new) "Sync Keywords to Cloud " item found in the Keywording Panel.
Hierarchical keywords are still not supported in Lightroom though they are sort of honored

For a complete explanation check here: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/sync-keywords/

 

[SaraLH]

Before I did anything, I read the complete update notes here in the Blog and on the Adobe site, and checked the box in Sync Settings. Since I only use the cloud for viewing and reference and NEVER for editing/adding keywords, the flat keywords in the cloud are not a problem. And I have tested and keyword changes made in Classic sync correctly to the cloud.
Once I had read all of the notes, I first deleted all of the jpgs that I had uploaded to the cloud and synced my tablet and phone, then I created my collections in Classic and synced them to the cloud. I make Smart Collections using Jeffrey Friedl's "Smart Collection Sync" and sync them to the LR Snyc collections.
Now I have just what I wanted when I started this adventure 3 weeks ago.