Workflow advice

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Avlor

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Dear all,

I'm an amateur photographer, so my photo management is really on basic level, but I'm striving to improve. Currently I shoot RAW and try my best to apply keywords on import. However, since more than half of the shots are family and friends (on which I don't want to forego raw for it flexibility of post adjustment), there is a high demand for seeing and sharing the pics right away. On top of that, I have a notebook as my primary PC and store photos on an external drive, therefore I can't instantly share any photos I show my friends in LR. So I'm looking for some workflow improvement.
The idea basically is to generate smallish jpgs right after import so they can be easily shared. I see two possibilities right now:
1. Export to the same folder, so I have a jpg alongside a raw file. However, this makes browsing photos outside lightroom a problem, as folders contain both raw files and jpgs which I can't really separate for clean view. Plus the jpgs will not be available when the external drive is unplugged.
2. Maintain an alternative jpg folder structure. It allows straightforward browsing from Explorer, allows keeping the jpgs on my inside HDD but it severes the connection between raw and jpg in Lightroom.

The most troublesome part comes when I develop/tag photos is LR. I would like to update my jpgs after I do some adjustments. But apparently I wouldn't want to update the whole jpg folder tree and this is very time consuming. Ideally some algorithm would involve running a sync-like report/collection and re-export only those photos that were updated. Any ideas on this?

The ideal solution would include Picasa Face Recognition Intergration. If i could recognise faces on jpgs, tag them accordingly and then sync the new keywords back to lightroom raw files, it would be a complete victory for me.
Basically syncing keywords between multiple photos in a way that keywords from photo "A" are synced to "a", but not to "B" and "c" would be gorgeous.

So any ideas on proper file managment in these circumstances are greatly appreciated. Sorry if it sounds complicated, I'm ready to clarify anything :-[
 
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[quote author=Avlor link=topic=9769.msg66165#msg66165 date=1273225'33]
On top of that, I have a notebook as my primary PC and store photos on an external drive, therefore I can't instantly share any photos I show my friends in LR.[/quote]

I don't understand what you mean here.

[quote author=Avlor link=topic=9769.msg66165#msg66165 date=1273225'33]So I'm looking for some workflow improvement.
The idea basically is to generate smallish jpgs right after import so they can be easily shared. I see two possibilities right now:
1. Export to the same folder, so I have a jpg alongside a raw file. However, this makes browsing photos outside lightroom a problem, as folders contain both raw files and jpgs which I can't really separate for clean view. Plus the jpgs will not be available when the external drive is unplugged.
2. Maintain an alternative jpg folder structure. It allows straightforward browsing from Explorer, allows keeping the jpgs on my inside HDD but it severes the connection between raw and jpg in Lightroom.

The most troublesome part comes when I develop/tag photos is LR. I would like to update my jpgs after I do some adjustments. But apparently I wouldn't want to update the whole jpg folder tree and this is very time consuming. Ideally some algorithm would involve running a sync-like report/collection and re-export only those photos that were updated. Any ideas on this?
[/quote]

I'll take a crack at this. Warning: I haven't actually done this, but it seems to me like this should work. Also, this is a partial solution

Export your JPGs to a different folder, but keep them in Lightroom (there is a check box in the export dialog box that allows you to keep the exported JPGs in the Lightroom catalog).

When you update keywords or other metadata, you would select both the RAW and JPG, and only then update the keywords. This of course will apply the keywords and metadata to both photos in the LR database. Then Ctrl-S to write the updated metadata to the files themselves.

When you develop the Raws, you have no choice but to re-export the JPG photos. I don't see any way around this.


Alternative thought: you didn't really tell us how you are doing the sharing with family and friends ... so I can't be sure this works for you ... but I don't keep JPG exports permanently. They are temporary, deleted when no longer needed. So, in your case, if you only kept the RAWs, and exported JPGs and shared only when needed, that seems to me to eliminate all of this difficult managing of exported JPGs. Works for me. Does it work for you?

Alternative thought Number 2: most of my photo sharing is done via Flickr (although there are other sites that work just as well). This eliminates the need for managing folders and file locations. Using Jeffrey Friedl's excellent Lightroom plug-in, you can upload your latest batch of photos, mark them private so only certain individuals can view them (optional), all metadata is displayed on Flickr, and when you modify your RAW (either develop or change the metadata), you can upload it again, and the plug-in will delete your previous version on Flickr. The big advantage is that this becomes a repository of your photos that can be shared with people who are thousands of miles away, and all of your photo management can be done inside of Lightroom, no need to worry about folders.
 
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[quote author=Avlor link=topic=9769.msg66165#msg66165 date=1273225'33]
However, since more than half of the shots are family and friends, there is a high demand for seeing and sharing the pics right away.[/quote]

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but I think this the part to work on -- not the technical details of the workflow.

Editing (that is, separating the wheat from the chaff, applying metadata, and at least some quick initial post-processing of the keepers) is simply part of the photographer's job. Your family and friends need to be educated about that. Show them only the keepers, not everything.

Achieving this will probably be one of the hardest challenges you tackle on your photographic journey. (I've managed to do it for everyone except my wife, I win the occasional battle, but have not yet won the war.)
 
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I like Mark's and Denis's advice, although I realize that sometimes that doesn't succeed.
 
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[quote author=Avlor link=topic=9769.msg66165#msg66165 date=1273225'33]... However, since more than half of the shots are family and friends ...there is a high demand for seeing and sharing the pics right away. ...The idea basically is to generate smallish jpgs right after import so they can be easily shared. [/quote] If your Canon is a recent model, it can shoot RAW+JPEG. You get two photos per shutter click. When you shoot RAW, the camera processor produces a final JPEG which is displayed on the camera screen. If you shoot RAW only, this is not saved as a separate file.

I shoot DNG+JPEG routinely with my Pentax. I can get about 4''(8'') images on my 16GB SDHC card. I import these into LR into a Date named folder structure suggested by LR. In many cases, the camera processed JPEG is "good enough" Perhaps only a crop is needed. These are immediately available for a quick show.
My Work flow after import is to quickly review the JPEGs and mark rejects (X). Having done that, I select those rejects and do the same with the DNG counterpart. I then Delete all Rejects(X). Next I go through the JPEGS and decide which will stand on their own. I reject the rest. Any that will only make it as a post processed DNG get the JPEG counterpart deleted after I've made a quick show to those want to see their photo.
The next step in the post process work flow is to add additional keywords to every remaining photo or correct any keywords that were added on import.
After Keywords, I develop any to see which might be keepers and which not. If there are any that fail the develop step, they get rejected(X) and deleted later.
After develop, I add Titles and Descriptions. Finally I export the remaining to Flickr or hold in reserve. Three months later, I move the images to an archive drive (in LR) and at that time Delete anty rejects and further cull the images that made the cut.
 
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I gave the family their own point n shoot so they can take their own pictures, this keeps them quiet while I develop mine.
 
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Thanks for all the advice! Mark's comment nails it down pretty well, it's hard to explain (and ensure others understand) that having shot something doesn't actually mean I have a picture of it.
[quote author=dj_paige link=topic=9769.msg66169#msg66169 date=127324'561]
[quote author=Avlor link=topic=9769.msg66165#msg66165 date=1273225'33]
On top of that, I have a notebook as my primary PC and store photos on an external drive, therefore I can't instantly share any photos I show my friends in LR.[/quote]

I don't understand what you mean here.
[/quote]
What I mean is that when I browse the catalog, I can't export the photos right away, as they are stored on a separate hard drive I usually leave home.

As for ways of sharing, it's either Picasa or old flash drive way.

Clee'1l, sounds like a reasonable procedure, allows showing jpegs 'as is' and then go about processing at your own pace.
 
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