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  • It's Lightroom update time again! Color Grading and improved zoom across the whole Lightroom family, plus graphical watermarks for the cloud-based Lightroom apps, as well as the usual new cameras, lens profiles and bug fixes. See this blog post for Lightroom Classic and this blog post for the Lightroom Cloud Ecosystem changes.

Which Lightroom version for me?

Gnits

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I think the printing issue is symptomatic of an architectural issue in terms of a central server app and printers and printer drivers working via the Internet. I expect the solution will be a rendering module to create PDFs, which can then be printed locally. Printing high quality images from PDFs is not a trivial exercise and knowledge is needed to configure compression, colour management, profiles and lots of other PDF settings not required for typical office documents.
 
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Lightroom beta was very much an emergency release, and it was a free beta. This is more considered, polished, less of a rush job. So I don't really buy the 1.0 excuse. A funny story is that I heard the excuse a lot at an Aperture pre-release event back in 2005, and when that didn't silence objections the facilitator said "this is Apple, imagine when Aperture gets to version 3"....

We have also seen with Lightroom that while feature gaps might get filled in, if a feature is released in a dumbed down or clunky state, it's unlikely to be less dumbed down over time.

John
 

tspear

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If they're killing it, there's no point them bothering with low-hanging fruit though, right? I agree, it probably will get killed off eventually... but not before all the customers have another viable Adobe product to move to, and that will be at least a few years yet. They overhype their marketing, like most marketing departments do, but they wouldn't still be in business if they were making decisions like that.
Actually the low hanging fruit is generally a good way to lower costs. You can often assign junior or new developers to such tasks, because these are less core to the product. They nibble around the edges of the core system so tend to be of lower risk. The result, if managed well, is most users think the system is still being pushed forward, but you have stopped all long term projects improvements. And the technical deficit increases along with the associated technical debt; but this gives you the breathing room for the new product to be built. Further, small low hanging fruit is the easiest to interrupt and shutdown when the final choice is made to axe the project. The senior staff get moved to the new product, with a couple of token old guy/gals left behind to mentor the new junior developers. I have done this multiple times for projects which had a few million users.

I have no issue with Adobe making such a choice. It is the correct business decision; the problem is the direction they have chosen likely means I have no interest. I do not want to be forced into everything in the Adobe cloud, and that is the obvious direction they are headed. If the database was in the cloud and you could use any file based cloud service, I would jump on board in a second. But having spend countless hours getting away from Apple iTunes and Google Docs; I am very leery of any company trying to hold my stuff hostage. No thanks. Not interested.
In addition, having dealt with relatives that went all in on a digital cloud solution (think FB, do not ask), then passing away... the offspring lost a lot. This makes backup and continuity even more problematic. I have no illusions my kids will be interested in pictures of my friends and some locations they never visited with me, but I assume they may be interested in pictures of their mother (and maybe myself too!).

So now, it comes down to do I want to continue to invest in being held hostage? Or do I try and cobble together a series of other products to do what Lr does? Or do I say WTF and give up photography and join the selfie crowd and find something else to do with my free time?

Tim
 
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Early days. As a CC user not interested in mobile, I am a bit better off (or will be, when I decide to install) today than I was yesterday, and I certainly haven't lost anything. I will wait and see if these dire prognostications will occur.

In the meantime, I am not going to throw away some years of learning to search and install another product (or set of products, if you include the plug-ins I use) and start over.

Dave
 
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They nibble around the edges of the core system so tend to be of lower risk.
The Performance changes don't look like nibbling round the edge. They're messing with code that hasn't been touched for years. Performance is the main thing people have clamored for for the last few years, and they're finally addressing it. Should they have done it years ago? Yes. But better late than never in my book.
 

tspear

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The Performance changes don't look like nibbling round the edge. They're messing with code that hasn't been touched for years. Performance is the main thing people have clamored for for the last few years, and they're finally addressing it. Should they have done it years ago? Yes. But better late than never in my book.
I disagree. Look at where the performance changes are located. For example, the import dialog.
All the changes I have read of so far do not touch the core database structure, the Library module, the Develop module, the rendering engine....


Tim
 
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I don't think you are right there, Tim. The Import-related changes are indeed isolated, new code inserted to run after the Import dialog closes, but the other preview building and caching is affecting existing processes that are important to the user experience.

Something like the Title Is Empty criterion is certainly tinkering around the edges, welcome as it is.

John
 
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It's amazing what one single word can do. If they had called it 'Lightroom Professional', would you have felt the same way?
Yes, I would. This product called Lightroom CC appears to be the flagship going forward. Yet it is so much an incomplete product from Lightroom Classic (or what ever you want to call it.) There are too many missing important functions (printing, Smart Collections Keyword hierarchy to name a few). Looking at Adobe's product history and hard headed decision that the cloud is the only future, first with CS6, then LR6 EoL.
As much as I would like to be about to work my image inventory from which ever machine (iMac, MBP or even Windows), having my images stored by someone like Adobe continues to hold me hostage to their product. I don't care how fast your internet is today, you can't quickly access 2TB of images as quick as you can locally. Furthermore, at the prices Adobe is charging annually to host your data, I can buy a new hard drive each year, storing my data locally and still come out ahead.
Then there is the security of back-up. If you can recall recently, Code42 abandoned their consumer backup market forcing those of us that were happy with Crashplan to find other alternatives (none of which seem to be as good as what Code42 was offering). There is no assurance that Adobe will not abandon the consumer cloud offering leaving you and me high and dry just as Code42 did.
I don't mind Adobe having a copy of my Master images like the Smart DNGs. I do object to having my master images held hostage by Adobe. And don't give me the BS about keeping a local copy. If I need to keep a local copy, I have even less of a reason to keep a copy in the Adobe cloud.
 

JimHess43

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Let's put the idea of the images in the cloud aside for a moment. Have any of you tried using the new Lightroom CC as the primary software for editing images, loading images from the hard drive? I did it on a few tonight, and what a nightmare. If that is what Adobe is going to present as the flagship software then I'm going somewhere else for sure. This Lightroom CC isn't bad as a touchup program for work that has already been pretty much finished with what I call the "real" Lightroom that I have been using for years. But I won't be saddled with that new mess as my primary software. And I would never pay $10/month for it. Okay, it's a version 1.0. Adobe should be charging at the most $1/month for it.
 

Gnits

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I agree with both Cletus and JimHess43 comments just posted.

In my opinion, the new Lightroom Cc Cloud should be called Lightroom Xxx Beta, (replace Xxx with a marketing term of your choice) and be offered as beta software for the next 12 months until it has been proven and all the key components in place. I think it is a major mistake to call the current version Classic and deceitful to call the new version Lightroom Cc.

But then Adobe seem to luxuriate in shooting own goals.

I am prepared to walk from Adobe completely if Classic hints at becoming 'Legacy' and the new usurper fails to provide a reasonable path forward. No matter what happens I will NOT be loading my digital assets to Adobe.

I have a Capture One Licence, Perpetual Licenses for the full Creative Suite and like what Affinity are doing. I like and have promoted Lr in the past, but sense the urge to do that may wane going forward.

Interesting times. I think Adobe should publish a roadmap of the functionality they will include in Lr over the next 24 months and at what point it might make sense to migrate from Classic to the new CC and still retain local data store.
 

PhilBurton

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Okay, it's a version 1.0.
I disagree. It is NOT a version 1.0. Version 0.5 is more like it. I just had a chance to review Victoria's helpful comparison table, and I was amazed/gobsmacked yet again about all the missing functionality.

It is really a "proof of concept" to demonstrate the concepts of access from all devices plus cloud-centric workflow.

Adobe would never publish a 24 month roadmap. It would be very useful to competition and also open Adobe up to ridicule when the miss dates or don't do all promised features.

Phil
 
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If you want to play, play -- migrate a tiny portion and plan to delete it all later.
I've taken your advice. I exported a 6000 image catalog of all of my "Process complete" and >★★★ images. With my near Gigabit internet, (in LRs words) "this may take a while" It is 30% complete after an hour.

On thing that I've seen is that LR CC is nothing more than a MacOS version of the LRMobile app for iOS
 

Rose Weir

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My download rate is 5mbps at max -for a few moments....and the upload is rarely above kb rates. Windows Patch Tues and Version upgrades are painful sessions when the download is interrupted or corrupted. There are many internet users outside urban areas who are limited to satellite towers. Rural residents are in 3rd world status when it comes to internet connection. The cloud concept is of no use to me. So it would appear that checking for alternate products would be a wise action. It is doubtful that the 'Classic' will disappear very quickly so there is time to check out the alternatives.
Rose
 
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As has been mentioned elsewhere in the forum, by the time Classic becomes untenable, the alternatives will likely be vastly different than they are today. Any research you do now will probably need to be redone.
 

tspear

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As has been mentioned elsewhere in the forum, by the time Classic becomes untenable, the alternatives will likely be vastly different than they are today. Any research you do now will probably need to be redone.
Why? Also, if you know it is EOL, why wait? The longer you wait, the more you have to unlearn on the new software, the more you have to data migrate...

Tim
 
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Sure, but that isn't the question I was answering. If you want out NOW, then now is the time to do your research, but Rose wasn't in that much of a rush.
 

Rose Weir

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Hal: as to 'not in a rush'....this is true. I had expected the Adobe Lightroom management to continue. I can understand the company being attracted to the concept of being in the 'leading technology pack' and perhaps they have researched the population numbers in urban centres but for everyone to be in on this 'cloud setting' is way,way into the future for many users. My internet connection just quit this morning and its sunny; usually it quits when it rains. Fortunately,I wasn't updating .
Its more of a 'mental attitude' along the lines of the phrase 'This too shall pass'....except translate that to mean this raw conversion db management may be impermanent. I doubt that this 'classic' will receive upgrades etc over the next 5 yrs....so its a 'wait and see' while keeping alert to alternative choices.
 
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Why? Also, if you know it is EOL, why wait? The longer you wait, the more you have to unlearn on the new software, the more you have to data migrate...
EVERY software product will have a sunset and eventual EOL. It's all about "how soon" not "if".

There's a pretty strong argument to be made that a lot of the new contenders who look very promising as an Adobe competitor are, well, new. Small. Certainly lacking the bankroll that Adobe has available. I think it is also almost certain some of them will just fail, and if history teaches us anything, it is not always those with a bad product who fail, but often good products with inadequate funding or business management. I think there's a serious risk of jumping ship to a new product that actually dies a company-death before Adobe kills Classic.

I WANT there to be a viable competitor to Adobe. But I think those jumping ship now, early, may be premature not because Classic will not (eventually) die, but because of the immaturity of competing products.

Note here I'm not talking so much about Lightroom-the-editor, but Lightroom-the-end-to-end-workflow-tool-and-editor.

There are people who love looking around and trying software products - go for it. It helps the competition and that's good. I just think there's a vast audience here who just wants to edit their photos and move on, and I hate that we may collectively be stampeding them to a premature exit.
 
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It looks pretty clear to me that having a way to integrate workflows and catalogs would be useful. I would not be surprised at all to see that as a next step. Let me decide what I want on the cloud - or at least exclude certain destinations. That should not be that hard. Right now eliminating that issue makes for a clean rollout targeting mobile customers.

I'd go slow on leaving Adobe since they now have two potential paths and the possibility those paths can be integrated. Adobe has laid out a direction that covers the future market pretty well.

To be honest, I'd like a strong cloud based storage solution in place of personally buying and maintaining external hard drives and backups. Amazon or Adobe should be able to provide secure, inexpensive cloud libraries and backup cheaper than me. One my RAW files are on the cloud, I don't have to worry. Put my LR backups on the cloud as well. I'd probably spend $300-500 per year for cloud backup if it was practical with the speed issues resolved. There is no need to download the entire file - just the portion needed for a given function. Thumbnails and previews are small - it's the entire file that takes time. Processing can take place virtually so RAM is no longer an issue.
 

JimHess43

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After sleeping on it, I have decided not to jump ship and go looking for other products just yet. Lightroom Classic is what I am accustomed to and it works fine on my computer. Since it was just introduced it isn't going to fade away tomorrow. And I always have Photoshop/Camera Raw to fall back on. I like the Camera Raw engine. I don't like the Camera Raw interface as well as Lightroom, but I can use it if I have to and I don't have to learn something new from the ground up. I'm too old to do that, and have too many other things in my life to worry about right now. I just wish Adobe would think a little bit before they market something new. In my opinion, the new Lightroom CC is pretty bad. I can't imagine why anyone would pay to use it right now.
 

tspear

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EVERY software product will have a sunset and eventual EOL. It's all about "how soon" not "if".

There's a pretty strong argument to be made that a lot of the new contenders who look very promising as an Adobe competitor are, well, new. Small. Certainly lacking the bankroll that Adobe has available. I think it is also almost certain some of them will just fail, and if history teaches us anything, it is not always those with a bad product who fail, but often good products with inadequate funding or business management. I think there's a serious risk of jumping ship to a new product that actually dies a company-death before Adobe kills Classic.

I WANT there to be a viable competitor to Adobe. But I think those jumping ship now, early, may be premature not because Classic will not (eventually) die, but because of the immaturity of competing products.

Note here I'm not talking so much about Lightroom-the-editor, but Lightroom-the-end-to-end-workflow-tool-and-editor.

There are people who love looking around and trying software products - go for it. It helps the competition and that's good. I just think there's a vast audience here who just wants to edit their photos and move on, and I hate that we may collectively be stampeding them to a premature exit.
Lr has been "ahead" of the competition for a decade. That issue is not likely to go away no matter when.
The state of the market has not really changed since I first started looking at digital asset managers. Note: I separate digital asset management from photo editing. Lr for me is more about asset management then editing.

Tim
 
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One my RAW files are on the cloud, I don't have to worry.
So why would you not worry if they are in the Cloud?

I am not really speaking of hacks (though that's a possibility) but:

- You accidentally delete the image, can you get it back?

- Software bug deletes the image and you do not notice for a while (anyone remember when a Lightroom release just randomly wiped out a folder when you ran it the first time?)

- Bit rot hits, and your best image from 2016 that has been untouched in the cloud is suddenly corrupt

What worries me about Adobe's Cloud is they are silent on all issues relating to redundancy, versioning and point in time restore (or any restore), security, and reliability. Maybe they are incredibly careful and good; maybe they are some off-shore, out-sourced, on-the-cheap junk. How would we know?
 
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Why? Also, if you know it is EOL, why wait? The longer you wait, the more you have to unlearn on the new software, the more you have to data migrate...

Tim
On1 and affinity are not mature products. Hopefully by the time LR Classic is ended, they will be. Perhaps Adobe will wake up and find away to merge LR Classic and
Lightroom CC. If they did that, it might not be necessary to abandon LR completely.
Waiting but not sleeping might be a reasonable direction to take for the near term.
 
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I separate digital asset management from photo editing. Lr for me is more about asset management then editing.
Yes, me too. With LR Classic, you can integrate just about any photo editor into your workflow. With LR CC it seems to limit asset management to One cloud based scheme with the focus on photo editing. I can’t use my current workflow with LRCC even if color labels were present and smart collections were available.
 
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Perhaps Adobe will wake up and find away to merge LR Classic and
Lightroom CC. If they did that, it might not be necessary to abandon LR completely.
All issues of naming and subscription and reassurances and such to the side, I think this is the clear message adobe sent.

There's no reason they could not make them inter-operate from the beginning. They CHOSE not to. To me that sends quite a message.

I still believe there is no hurry, indeed many of us might not outlive "Classic". But there's a real message embedded in not making them work and play fully together.
 
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