What is the proper way to round-trip between LR3 and PS CS5?

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hassiman

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I have been trying to restructure my workflow to start with my images imported into LR then "edit In" PS CS5 to do any layers work and spotting using content-aware fill... maybe even crops ( although I am unsure which adjustments are best done in PS and which in LR3 and when... chime in if you wish) Now I have been using EDIT IN from LR and choosing the middle copy choice as it seems to preserve the layers from PSD files in LR. I guess choosing ORIGINAL would defeat the purpose of non-destructive editing.

After editing in PS what is the proper way to save so that the copy lands back in LR3 with all changes? I have been experamenting with one image and now have 4 copies next to each other... how do I distinguish the original...

Also... I have been using OnOne PhotoTools and I like it quite well... but when is the best time to use these pugins? If you open an image in LR3 it seem that LR3 just opens the image in PS anyway and then in PhotoTools... so is it best to use "EDIT IN" in LR3, open image in PS and THEN invoke PhotoTools or Nik ColorFX Pro etc. etc.:crazy:

Sorry to be a bother
 
I have been trying to restructure my workflow to start with my images imported into LR then "edit In" PS CS5 to do any layers work and spotting using content-aware fill... maybe even crops ( although I am unsure which adjustments are best done in PS and which in LR3 and when... chime in if you wish) Now I have been using EDIT IN from LR and choosing the middle copy choice as it seems to preserve the layers from PSD files in LR. I guess choosing ORIGINAL would defeat the purpose of non-destructive editing.

Just to try to clarify a few things about this process (especially as I have apparently been confused myself and previously reporting things incorrectly :oops:):

Assume you start with a RAW file in LR, do some adjustments, then want to go to PSCS5 for additional work including maybe layers...so you do 'Edit in' and over to PS you go (no dialog box when a RAW is the start point). In PS you do your thing and when ready to move back to LR you simply hit 'Save' in PS (not "Save As"), and provided you have kept LR active while working in PS there will be a smooth import of the resulting TIFF/PSD (depending on your LR preferences) and the file should appear alongside the RAW back in LR. If you have created layers in PS, what you will see in LR is the currently showing 'top' layer when you hit Save.

Now let's assume, working on this TIFF/PSD, you make some further adjustments (maybe a crop, maybe some tone adjustments) then you want to go back into PS, so you right-click and choose 'Edit In'. This time, because we are not dealing with a RAW file, you will get a dialog box with the three options:


  • Edit a copy with Lightroom Adjustments. In this another TIFF/PSD file will be created when you save in PS, the LR adjustments you made to the TIFF/PSD will be visible, BUT the file will be flattened and you will lose the layers.
  • Edit a Copy. Again, another TIFF/PSD file will be created when you save in PS, your layers WILL be preserved, BUT the LR adjustments you made to the TIFF/PSD will not be visible....and are not re-applied on the return to LR of this copy (as this is a 'new' file with no edit history). So they are effectively 'lost' to this copy, but are still visible on the first copy so could be copied over if required.
  • Edit the Original....note this means the original TIFF/PSD and NOT the original RAW (so the non-destructive editing concept is preserved). As with "Edit a Copy", layers are preserved, but Lightroom adjustments are not visible....however I had previously thought that the LR adjustments are also 'lost', but not so...you just don't see them in PS, but they will be reapplied when you return back to LR. The way it works seems to be that because you are working on the 'original' TIFF/PSD, the LR adjustments are retained in the edit history and so are re-applied to the PS-amended TIFF/PSD on it's return....so care needs to be taken if you, say, apply tone adjustments in both LR and PS as the effect will be cumulative. To be honest, if I thought I was likely to be making several round-trips just to 'get it right', I'd be using this option and thus save some disk space. I'd use the Edit a Copy option only when I wanted to generate different looks from the original base image.

After editing in PS what is the proper way to save so that the copy lands back in LR3 with all changes? I have been experamenting with one image and now have 4 copies next to each other... how do I distinguish the original...
Every time you save a new copy, the name should change....typically the default is to add "-Edit" to the image name, so every time a new copy is created the number of "-Edit" entries will increase by one....so the last of 4 copies would look like "IMG_1234-Edit-Edit-Edit-Edit.tif/psd". You can adjust the default naming scheme in the External Editing tab of the LR Preferences, though as I said, maybe 'Edit the Original' might be a better option depending on your objectives.

Also... I have been using OnOne PhotoTools and I like it quite well... but when is the best time to use these pugins? If you open an image in LR3 it seem that LR3 just opens the image in PS anyway and then in PhotoTools... so is it best to use "EDIT IN" in LR3, open image in PS and THEN invoke PhotoTools or Nik ColorFX Pro etc. etc.:crazy:

Sorry to be a bother
Not a big plug-in user, so I'll let somebody else pick up this last point.

Hope the information I provided is understandable....
 
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Excellent explanation, Jim.
I'd like to add that there's another way of opening a file in PS, and that is via the 'Photo => Edit in => Open as Smart Object' command. That will put a copy of your raw inside of a TIFF container, and send that TIFF over to Photoshop. While in Photoshop, you will then be able to apply filters as smart filters (the difference with normal filters is that Smart Filters are re-editable). It goes even further: if you double click on the smart object, you'll be brought into camera raw with the same settings as you left the file in Lightroom, so you can continue editing your file on a raw level. So, this allows for a non-destructive LR - PS workflow. (note however that changes made to that raw copy will not trickle back to the original raw in your lr catalog: after all, it was a copy of the raw that got embedded in the TIFF that was sent to photoshop, not the original raw itself!)
Unfortunately, not all things are possible on a Smart Object: you can't paint, or perform direct retouches or use content aware fill. But, sometimes (eg for retouching), you can perform those on a separate retouching layer.
So it will depend on what you plan on using in PS to choose the right edit in PS for the right job.

As far as PhotoTools is concerned: it really needs PS in the background anyway, and because it cannot be previewed in LR, I prefer to sent my file over to PS from LR (normally, not as a Smart Object) and then run PhotoTools over there (in which case I have the advantage of previewing what I'm doing).

Hope this helps
 
Thanks Piet....but I still think I've got it wrong!!! :oops::oops:

Having just done a little more testing, I now think 'Edit a Copy' and 'Edit Original' have different results in respect of any interim LR adjustments, so I have heavily edited my initial post to reflect what I now think is going on.....but it would be useful for someone else to confirm (or correct again) as I seem to have made a bit of a mess of this so far!

Sincere apologies for the inevitable confusion I have created here! :rolleyes:
 
Thanks Guys... this really is a great forum.... I must admit that I fairly well muddied the waters by covering so much in one post... but it is vexing when you have so much going on in both programs and there are so many ways of doing each task... so when you pick edit-in and it then gives you 3 different choices... well Enniee Meanie Miney Mo... you pick and hope you made the correct choice. I am mainly concerened about maintaining the integriy of the original image file imported into LR3. I am now doing a LOT of scanning so much of the work imported is in the form of a .TIF. Once I am through scanning I will again be dealing with RAW materials.

Thanks
 
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