What if you LIKE Chronological Event Folders?

[NJHeart2Heart]

Hi all,
I've been working with LR for a while now, and have been importing pics into date organized folders under a 2nd level year folder. I love that it is so efficient, but I really do miss having some type of description on the folders. I am a scrapbooker, and all of my hard copies and other memorabilia is organized by date. Though I do use some smart collections for subjects, I often want to look through an entire group of event pics from a certain date. I have been frustrated because it's not easy to find the particular events in the folders.

My question is, for those of you who like to have some descriptors for each group of photos, do you prefer to import straight to date, and then create a collection with Date and descriptor, or do you import to date, then add a descriptor to that folder one it's imported?

It seems to me a big waste of time to take each date folder and create a dumb collection with the date + short descriptor, when you already have half the equation in your imported folder structure.

I was just thinking perhaps I could move to a year/month import folder structure, then use the collections as my detailed folder list. Then again, I could also add the place/event (sometimes I want to label a group of photos by date/location {2''8-'9-'1_Jenny_Jump_Park} or by date/event {2''8-1'-'2_Christopher_Murphy_Bday}.

I just wonder if others have a lengthy imported folders (meaning year, then month/day), AND lengthy list of collections which also go by date, but also add a descriptor.

Thanks,
Dawn D.

 

[dj_paige]

Seems to me the best way to organize is to use keywords, which describe the content of your photos and other items, rather than year, which can be hard to remember. I have never felt organizing by year was a good idea, as I don't remember dates well at all. Anyway, it is my strong feeling that using keywords is superior to folder-based organization, as you can have as many keywords for a photos as you want ("Uncle Joe", "Retirement Party", "1998", "Ontario Beach Park", etc.), whereas your method limits you to a placing things in a single folder. Also, Lightroom offers more powerful search tools when you use keywords than any search tools you can come up with using folders.

 

[Denis Pagé]

AH! You missed the trick...

Here it is: When the import dialog is showing the subfolders (like 2''8-'9-'1 in you example), just double-click a folder and add your "_Jenny_Jump_Park" description right there before closing the import dialog box by pushing the "Import" button. 8)

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

Hi Paige,
I do tend to keyword as much as possible, and I LOVE that ability within LR to be able to group (via smart collection, or filter, or search) subjects, and I do see your point. However, part of me resists keywording events, because the list would become endless, which would greatly slow down my hunt for a particular keyword when I don't exactly know what I need (ie, looking for dog, I need to scan my list to see if I used "dog", "Dog" or "_Dog" (which indicates a category keyword). To have to scroll through (eventually) thousands of keywords including years, locations, events would become really annoying. The last thing I want to do is to accidentaly create all THREE of the above keyword simply because it was too difficult to scroll through my keyword list to find the correct usage of a particular keyword.

I wonder if the best compromise is to place what I would have used as a descriptor phrase for my folder, right into the metadata fields under Title?? But again, that makes it more difficult to scan my folders quickly to find an event that correlates to my scrapbook topic/event/memorabilia. You have to think the way a scrapbooker does in order to really understand my dilemma.

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

LOL! Yes, Denis, you got me there. At fear of being a real brat, I think I tried that but then hesitated when not ALL of the photos on a given day were from the same event. Here's a follow up question for ya: If I take a memory card, and do an image preview on import, I know I can checkmark the photos I want to import and add descriptor accordingly. If I did that, would I then have to re-import again, take the next group of pic (of a second event), checkmark, and add descriptor?

Hmm.. going to lunch break now.. have laptop.. will play...

 

[Denis Pagé]

It will work as you you say with the next set of images selections from same original location and if you opted to move to new location rather than copy to new location, photos already imported will not show and simplify the selection if there is more than one event left from same original folder.

While Paige gave a very good general advice, don't pay too much attention to this jumpin'scratched vynil. While keywording is a must, we can very well understand that scanning by eye a vertical column of folders having just a couple words is much faster than going through a Lightroom search... : ...to find a folder.

 

[erro]

You can use hierarchical keywords. Create a few main catagories:
_People
_Places
_Things
_Animals
_Events

Then drag your keywords into the proper category. This way you don't get one huge list with all keywords, but rather you can open and close each category by itself. If you're looking for keywords for events: expand the _Events category and you'll see all event-keywords. Another benefit is that you'll easily spot the images that haven't been tagged for events since they wont have the _Events keyword. This of course demands that you assign the keyword "none" under _Events for those images that don't fall into any event category.

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

Denis,

Ahh.. I am feeling an immediate sense of relief!

After struggling against my own instincts for a year, and after reading your response today, I finally said "to heck with ANTI-FOLDER bias", and just now, in one hour, I was able to add a "first" level of organization over many of my photos! I added descriptors to all of my 2'1' folders and more than half of my 2''9 folders. I renamed my dated folders to include a 1-3 word descriptor at the end; they are short, but I feel so much better being able to scan my dated folders to see their GENERAL content.

You see, I am very much a keyworder, and I look forward to adding metadata to all of my photo collection - EVENTUALLY. The problem is I'd rather take pictures than sit in front of my computer, and we all know that it does take time and dedication to keyword all photos with a complete set of keywords and metadata. My current photo collection has grown faster then my ability to properly keyword/metadata, etc. all of the individual photos.

Now, with these short descriptors, I can quickly find those folders that I want to access at a moment's notice. Espcially for my scrapbooking, now I can say "ah, here are my photos from the 2nd hike I took to Stokes State Forest", which I want to import, print and place into scrapbooks RIGHT NOW.

I can go ahead and work with that group of photos- tag, rate, place in a "to print" collection and import right away. My endless photos of our two new cats, while important, really don't need to be accessed RIGHT NOW, so I am able to find generally what I need and add the metadata as needed - while OF COURSE working systematically through the rest of my collection to keyword/add metadata as time allows.

Robert- yes, I do use some hierarchy, but, just like folders, there's a balance between scrolling/scanning on straight list quickly, and having to open up many top level categories, hoping the keywords I want are in that particular category.

Denis- I will definitely start adding a short descriptor to each day's images as I import.


Thanks for everyone's advice.

Dawn D. in NJ

 

[dj_paige]

Another possibility if you have a huge number of events is to put the event name in caption or title metadata fields. Thus, Uncle Joe's Retirement Party could be a title of the photo. Other keywords as appropriate. I still think this gives you greater flexibility and greater searchability in Lightroom than using folders. Plus, your metadata stays with the photos if you e-mail or upload the photos to photo sharing sites, folder names don't stay with the photos in those situations.

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

Paige- I definitely agree that keywords and other metadata are definitely more permanent than folders, and have just begun to start using the metadata fields other than keywords recently. But again, it takes time to fill in all the assorted fields (even if you do use presets on some of them), so to have a descriptor on my folders will definitely help me when I need to find photos (especially older ones that I've imported in larger groups) before I am able to add metadata to them.

Dawn D. in NJ

 

[Replytoken]

Dawn,

I am still not clear why Collections will not work for you? I use them extensively because I am not really into keywording. They are so easy to create and manage.

--Ken

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

Hi all,
Some more thoughts in reply:
Adding data to title metadata fields: I consider this along the same lines as the keywording. The problem I have is that I'm afraid of using the "wrong" combination of words for a particular metadata field. For example, I was trying to tag photos with the state recently, and was paranoid about the fact that when I tried to type in "NY" the program kept trying to autofill with "Ny". This drives me nuts. I hate inconsistency, especially when that kind of inconsistency can cause you to miss catching certain photos into your workspace (ie. 8 photos have NY, 2 photos have Ny, and the two photos don't get pulled into my workspace because of the discrepancy). This is one of those things I'll figure out in time (how to edit your lists of words within the title fields, etc.), but right now, I want to concentrate on just a few fields, like keywords, which I can easily see my list and edit accordingly. Plus, it takes longer to scroll down to the metadata field than it does to use keywords.
Adding descriptors on import: I like this, and will use this going forward. I mentioned above about being concerned about multiple events on one memory card/import. Well, when I renamed my folders, I chose 1-4 descriptive words, and they were often from multiple events, so I can do the same thing on import- look at the entire group I am importing and using my words to describe each event/place if they are not of the same place/event. Hopefully as time goes on I will get quicker at sorting and keywording right AFTER I import, so I won't have the kind of "catch up" work I am doing now with so many older photos.
Creating collections: While I like to use smart collections, even they (not to mention dumb collections) are not persistent for other programs. I don't intend on using anything but LR, but for me, smart collections and keywords work in tandem, and now that I know I can create a smart collection using the words contained in my original import folders, I will actually use them more. Now that I have some basic "keywords" in my dated import folders, it will allow me to take larger groups (Christmases from 4 different years) into one large collection which then will allow me to keyword them all at one time with Christmas (and other keywords), thus making it easier to work off of those NEW keywords to create MORE smart collections which I can use for family history projects, etc.
I love Lightroom
Dawn D. in NJ

 

[stasber]

[quote author=NJHeart2Heart link=topic=95'9.msg64194#msg64194 date=127'914374]I was trying to tag photos with the state recently, and was paranoid about the fact that when I tried to type in "NY" the program kept trying to autofill with "Ny". This drives me nuts.[/quote]
It drove me nuts too - nuts isn't a strong enough word actually!

The way to get rid of that type of discrepancy is to eliminate the dodgy keyword from your Keyword List entirely. You should be able to go through your (ever-growing) Keyword List and spot those anomalies and right-click to rename them. As you rename them, images with that keyword should join the total of the new keyword and the old one should disappear from the list. Once there is no trace of a keyword it should also disappear from your autofill.

When you've gone through them, optimize the catalog. Editing using the Keywording panel won't necessarily fix everything, I found that going through the Keyword List seems to be able fix what the app needs in order to clean it up. I'm pretty clean these days and it's easy to spot an occasional & rare discrepancy and fix it in seconds.

HTHs

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

Hey Stas,Thanks for the tip. I do that with my keywords, but in this context I was speaking about the IPTC fields. I suspect there is a way to edit those fields as well, but it's more hidden in layers than the keyword list, which is upfront and easy to edit on the fly.
Dawn D. in NJ

 

[stasber]

In that case I'd try something like a Text search on Searchable IPTC fields in the Library Filter to find the offenders & similarly eradicate them as you find them. Still, that would drive me nuts too!

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

That's a good idea, to so a text search. :icon_idea: Eradicate the radicals! :fi_lone_ranger:

 

[Mark Sirota]

You can also purge the auto-complete dictionary ("clear all suggestion lists") in the Metadata tab of the Catalog Settings dialog.

While searching for and eradicating the offending metadata is a good idea, it won't solve the problem of LR auto-completing with the wrong value.

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

Mark,
AHH!!! THAT'S the kind of advice that is most helpful to that particular part of my journey. You just told me where to find the settings for (clear all suggestion lists). I didn't want to search and replace, but rather prevent any future issues by getting rid of the unwanted words in the auto-complete dictionary. Follow up question- Can you ONLY clear all suggestion lists, or can you clear certain lists and not others? It's not that important, since if I first set up my preset keyword lists (the 9 button thingies), it shouldn't be too much of a loss if I delete the word suggestions...

 

[stasber]

Good tip Mark!

 

[Mark Sirota]

[quote author=NJHeart2Heart link=topic=95'9.msg64463#msg64463 date=1271176171]
Follow up question- Can you ONLY clear all suggestion lists, or can you clear certain lists and not others?[/quote]

The "clear all" button is all that's available in the UI.

 

[NJHeart2Heart]

Hmm.. Interesting. So tell me if this is a good plan of attack:

Do a text search under IPTC "State" to find all pictures with any of "Ny" or "NY" labels, then do a "synch metadata" with the search results and change the state field to "New York" (because I've decided to spell states out now anyway). Do this for all the IPTC fields that need cleaning up.
THEN, go to the aforementioned "clear dictionary" to clear the autofill lists, and clear them out, which gives me a clean autofill slate, AND has made my existing data consistent...

Good?? Suggestions??

The good thing here is that I have used the IPTC fields for a very short time, so I can do this clean up NOW without too much pain!


Dawn

 

[Mark Sirota]

[quote author=NJHeart2Heart link=topic=95'9.msg64643#msg64643 date=1271356243]
Hmm.. Interesting. So tell me if this is a good plan of attack:

Do a text search under IPTC "State" to find all pictures with any of "Ny" or "NY" labels, then do a "synch metadata" with the search results and change the state field to "New York" (because I've decided to spell states out now anyway). Do this for all the IPTC fields that need cleaning up.
THEN, go to the aforementioned "clear dictionary" to clear the autofill lists, and clear them out, which gives me a clean autofill slate, AND has made my existing data consistent...[/quote]

Yes, that's exactly how I did it.