Using Ps as an Lr plugin TIFF v RAW

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I always shoot RAW and I process all I can in Lr and finally export as JPEG for website, printing, social networking and so on.
If I use Ps it’s to clone out something via context aware edits or to put a stroke border round an image.
The fact that Ps exports as a lossless TIFF has made me assume that I maintain the same control on image variables as a RAW file. However, I have been told that the TIFF conversion ‘bakes in’ certain parameters such as exposure, so that if I choose to edit the TIFF back in Lr, I’ve lost some flexibility that would was available to me in RAW format. Please can someone confirm or deny this?

Related question: Now that I’m also often using Topaz for noise reduction and sharpening at an early stage in my workflow, have I junked some of the parameter control that I had in RAW when I return the Topaz edited TIFF image to Lr for onward post production?

Peter
 
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Yes, the TIFF format like the JPEG format or the PSD format creates an RGB file of pixels. Pixels have adjustments such as WB, Tone Noise reduction fixed (baked in).
The advantage to TIFF is that the compression is lossless.

Your workflow when needing to create a derivative for additional work would be to make all of the Lightroom adjustments and create the TIFF intermediate derivative using the edit in function. The EditIn function can send the derivative to Topaz (if that is all you need) or PS for further adjustments to the TIFF. If you need bothe PS and Topaz adjustments then Edit in to PS and call Topaz from with in PS before returning the derivative to Lightroom


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Thank you Cletus, this is bad news for me as I often want to reduce image noise in Topaz before making any edits in Lr so that I’m not (say) increasing shadow detail or adding clarity to a noisy source. I currently go to Ps or Topaz via the edit in command and it would appear that I have the therefore junked a lot of useful image control in the TIFF export that I have been editing further in Lr - it might as well have been a JPEG.
peter
 
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Unlike jpeg, tiff supports 16 bits color and so it can be used with ultra wide color spaces like ProPhotoRGB. So no, using tiff as an intermediate and created from raw is not at all like shooting in jpeg.
 
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Johan,
My reference to JPEG was not in relation to shooting in JPEG but in the way going to Topaz or Ps via the 'edit in' command in Lr apparantly limits the range of values that various image parameters can be adjusted to as I move along in the workflow. I assume it's rather like finding your volume control only has 0-10 rather than (say) 0-256 when you wish to lighten shadows for example. I would prefer to edit a denoised image after Topaz has worked its wonders but now realise that this takes me out of the RAW domain and into something inferior in terms of control ranges. Prior to this thread I thought that the TIFF file was as loaded with original image info as the RAW, not with baked-in changes.
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My reference to JPEG was not in relation to shooting in JPEG but in the way going to Topaz or Ps via the 'edit in' command in Lr apparantly limits the range of values that various image parameters can be adjusted to as I move along in the workflow.
My remark still stands. You are overreacting and came to the wrong conclusion that a workflow that contains a conversion to TIFF must by definition be an inferior workflow. That is not true if you do it right. If you first edit the raw file to take advantage of typical 'raw features' such as setting the correct white balance and using highlights and shadows recovery if necessary, and then you send this raw file to Photoshop as 16 bits/color ProPhotoRGB TIFF, then you'll lose little or nothing. Yes, those edits will be 'baked in' now so you will lose some flexibility, but as long as you made the correct edits in the first place, that is not a big deal. You should not have to change these edits again in the rest of the workflow anyway.
 
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I agree with Johan in every respect. However once you convert to TIFF, you give up all the flexibility provided by working with the RAW source. I would suggest that you begin and end most of your processing in Lightroom. All of the PS ACR functionality is found in Lightroom. Even though you have TOPAZ, you might find that with most images you do not need it after using LrC Noise Reduction. If LrC does not provide the image that you need, THEN you are free to export a finished RGB image to PS for things like Content Aware Fill, Borders or Layers. (All things that Lightroom does not do.) If you have a particularly noisy image and the LrC NR does not do the job that you hoped, then and only then should you use an external editor like Topaz to handle the residual noise.

I have the complete suite of Topaz tools, Yet ~98% of my processed images have no intermediate derivative and further processing in Topaz or Photoshop (OR On1 PhotoRAW). When I first started to use Lightroom (back at v2.x) I did complain about the inadequacy of LRs NR module. Over the years LR has improved that Noise reduction to the point that seldom is anything else required.
 
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Thank you Cletus - your comment "However once you convert to TIFF, you give up all the flexibility provided by working with the RAW source" is precisely the point I was trying to make initially, and why it gives me a problem that I hadn't appreciated that I had. I would like to do all my processing in Lr if I could, but in my opinion Topaz DeNoise beats any other noise reduction software available.
Despite Johan's dissing, I don't believe that I can come up with a workflow that allows me to clean up the image in Topaz before I do the bulk of the editing in Lr. For me, the correct edits made early on must include noise reduction and having noise baked in by a TIFF export is very undesirable in my work.
As a Getty Image Artist M3/4 user for wildlife shots, this noise reduction is a critical step and must be done at an early stage in the workflow, otherwise I'm editing too much noise. When using my full frame Nikon Z7 for landscapes and portraits, the noise is not an issue and Topaz noise reduction is not normally required.
 
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You may want to check out DxO PureRAW. It applies advanced noise reduction on the raw image, and then creates the same kind of DNG that Lightroom does when you merge to panorama or HDR. Technically that DNG is not a raw file (it is demosaiced already), but in practise it can be considered a raw file when it comes to the editing you do in Lightroom.
 
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this noise reduction is a critical step and must be done at an early stage in the workflow, otherwise I'm editing too much noise.
Noise reduction actually occurs in two places in Lightroom with RAW images . When the image is converted to RGB, it appears as a flat, toneless and very noisy image. Were it not so, the the first images that you would see in Lightroom would not be very appealing. SO RAW conversion has already applied some NR to the image that you first see. You can stop there and apply al of the other edit adjustments It does not hurt to Edit with noise in place as Lightroom applies the Adjustmentsn\ in an order of its choosing and not the order that you apply them on the screen. So you can apply NR in Lightroom or not and then send the LR adjusted product to Topaz for NR.
 
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You may want to check out DxO PureRAW. It applies advanced noise reduction on the raw image, and then creates the same kind of DNG that Lightroom does when you merge to panorama or HDR
Yes, but if you have TOPAZ, DeNoise can process the RAW to a DNG as well. No need to launch it from LrC.
 

MrFixit

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Try the 'Edit in PS as a Smart Object' command in LR to go to PS. The Smart Object in PS can then be opened by Camera RAW to make changes to WB etc. as its still a RAW file. However, after applying any Topaz (or other) plug-ins - which then show up as Smart Filters - make further changes in the Camera RAW Filter - which also applies as a Smart Filter. After saving the whole file as a PSD you can re-open it in PS with all your edits intact.
 
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