Using LrC and Topaz products

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
Lightroom Version
11
Operating System
  1. macOS 12 Monterey
This is DeNoise specific. Has anyone seen this or use this method. I just found it today. In LrC I typically right click and select Edit In DeNoise. You have to select either TIFF, PSD or Jpeg. If you drag the file directly into DeNoise it opens as a RAW file. When you save it puts the file back into LrC and after syncing the folder the file appears in the source folder. Also it's like a Raw as you get to use the Colour profiles, etc.

https://www.topazlabs.com/denoise-ai#tutorial-videos-4
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
785
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
Not sure your question especially in relation to saving in LrC.
  • You can open a RAW file directly in Denoise. As far as I know, if you do it this way, you have to import the saved result into LrC.
  • I launch Denoise from LrC (see below), as you do, but the option you didn't mention was sending the file with current LrC adjustments. It is interesting that the 'Edit a Copy' and 'Edit Original' are greyed out with the note 'Not applicable to RAW ...'. Personally, for Denoise and Sharpen I want the adjustments including. I know some do Denoise before adjustments.
So you have choices.

1637450891302.png
 

PhilBurton

Lightroom enthusiast (but still learning)
Premium Classic Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
2,580
Location
California, USA
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
From reading the Topaz website, I am unsure how DeNoise and Sharpen differ from each other? Do either or both of these products provide benefit, compared with the tools in LrC 11?

Phil Burton
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
785
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
From reading the Topaz website, I am unsure how DeNoise and Sharpen differ from each other? Do either or both of these products provide benefit, compared with the tools in LrC 11?

Phil Burton
Yes, both Topaz products provide sharpening and denoise but each as a major and minor feature. My interpretation from the UI and behavior is that each is a different programming stack using two different approaches for their major. So the Denoise and Sharpen product will provide better results when they are the major. If you need to use them both, I don't know if a best practice would be to eliminate the minor in each. For example, Denoise with no sharpening then Sharpen with no denoise.

From all discussions, the Topaz deliver superior results to the equivalent LrC features but also have other capabilities like masking which you can't do with LrC to the same degree.

That being said, depending on the adjustment, LrC sharpen and denoise may do the job for a particular photo.
 
Joined
May 17, 2017
Messages
40
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
It's not working properly anyway. I'm in a thread at Topaz but I can't tell if it's a support thingy or just a member responding.
Not sure your question especially in relation to saving in LrC.
  • You can open a RAW file directly in Denoise. As far as I know, if you do it this way, you have to import the saved result into LrC.
  • I launch Denoise from LrC (see below), as you do, but the option you didn't mention was sending the file with current LrC adjustments. It is interesting that the 'Edit a Copy' and 'Edit Original' are greyed out with the note 'Not applicable to RAW ...'. Personally, for Denoise and Sharpen I want the adjustments including. I know some do Denoise before adjustments.
So you have choices.

View attachment 17558

I've done this for a long time. Matt's method you drag the actual file into Denoise and it opens as a Raw file. This is supposed to preserve more detail. When the file comes back to LrC it allows you to access colour profiles and everything as if it was still a Raw file. That's huge for me.
 

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
It's not working as shown in Matt's video. I’m following the exact steps Matt suggested. In preferences I disabled Apply Raw Correction. As I stated I don’t even see Lens Corrections which should be just above it. File attached.

From the Grid view I drag the CR3 file into DeNoise. It says it’s an CR3 file. I select Raw as the AI Model. Then I press Save Image and select DNG. It comes back to LrC as a denoise-raw.dng file. The color profiles is now on Color which does not allow to select other color profiles. The original file was Adobe Color. According to Matt it should be on Adobe color.

At minute 5:07 of Matt’s video he states to select DNG. What I got out of this video is that even if it comes back as a DNG the process is supposed to preserve the Raw file so you can access color profiles. I even tried preserve source format and that didn’t work either

At minute 6:27 in the video Matt opens the DNG file that came back from DeNoise and the color profile is Adobe Color.

I uninstalled 3.3.4, went to Topaz and downloaded it again. I’m using Mac Monterey 12.0.1 and LrC 11.0.1. I have read I’m not the only person having this issue. Not sure if the recent updates to both LrC and or the OS caused a problem.
 

Attachments

  • Screen-Shot-2021-11-21-at-9.52.23-AM.jpg
    Screen-Shot-2021-11-21-at-9.52.23-AM.jpg
    89.4 KB · Views: 9

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
By the way the video link I posted is on Topaz's front page for DeNoise AI. Open Products and then for Denoise AI - Learn More and scroll down to.

Recommended raw workflow​

 

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
OK. At 6:07 Matt opens the Sony file where you can see the Adobe Color profile. He doesn't show the Canon file. I checked the video out on youtube and found some feedback. My interpretation. It doesn't work consistently with all manufacturer profiles.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2021-11-21 at 1.13.54 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-11-21 at 1.13.54 PM.png
    178.1 KB · Views: 9
Last edited:

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
A reply from Matt
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2021-11-22 at 12.04.33 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-11-22 at 12.04.33 PM.png
    94.8 KB · Views: 16

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
There is a another fellow on another site who has exactly what I have and the processes works for him. Except he is shooting with a Sony

LR 11.0.1 Monterey 12.0.1. DeNoise AI v3.3.4. Sony A1 RAW compressed ( Topaz does not yet support Sony Lossless Compressed)

I'm shooting with a Canon. I am using Adaptive ISO preset, not selected in the import menu but it still applies my settings. See attachment. How do I stop it from applying the presets? I can see it in the preferences - presets. Before I re-install LrC how do I reset my preferences and what will that do? Should I keep them when re-installing? I can't find the link here for that.

I'm wondering if the presets are causing the issue? It may be a CR3 support thing. In the video he opens the Sony file but not Canon.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2021-11-22 at 4.37.23 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-11-22 at 4.37.23 PM.png
    39.4 KB · Views: 8

PhilBurton

Lightroom enthusiast (but still learning)
Premium Classic Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
2,580
Location
California, USA
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
Phil, This year Matt Kloskowski revised his thinking about LrC sharpening and noise reduction, and he now uses Topaz. Here is link explaining why he changed. I don't use Topaz, but I have a friend who uses it a lot and is happy with the results.

https://mattk.com/i-was-wrong-about-noise-reduction-and-sharpening/
GaryG,

That was a great video, because of the "before" and "after" pictures of his images. His video is a good argument for evaluating Topaz products, and rejiggering workflows accordingly, especially in light of @Zenon 's posts in this thread. it's a rate blogger or expert who freely and publicly admits to a mistake.

His comment that his choices were shaped by his subjects is really useful. A lot of my photography is railrooads and rail transit/metro systems. It's like photo journalism in many ways, with many subjects shot at high ISO, high contrast, and not always in focus.

On the assumption that Adobe really wants to revamp their sharpening and denoise algorithms "soon," I assume that the new algorithms will be part of the LightRoom 12 or (13) release, so at a minimum a purchase now would have economic value for at least a year.
 

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
It's definitely a Canon file issue. I sent a few RAW files to one of the Sony users and the same thing happened. No wonder he only opened the Sony file and not the Canon in the video.

I have had my arms crossed and tapping my foot on the ground for two years waiting for NR Sensei. :)
 

Woodbutcher

Active Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Messages
217
Location
Austin, TX
Lightroom Experience
Advanced
Lightroom Version
Classic
Canon shooter, myself. When I'm going to use Denoise, I do all my editing and cropping then use a preset I have that removes default sharpening and noise reduction in LR then I do the round trip process to Denoise (with LR adjustments) and I'm done. I seldom need to tweak it after that, but I have a LR original I can send to Denoise again later if needed.
 

Zenon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,826
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
I also have a preset that removes sharpening and NR. I just purchased DXO PureRaw. Half price so it was hard to resist. It will send the file back to LrC as a DNG and both Adobe and Canon colour profiles are available.
 
Top