Using DNG in LR6 longterm

YewChenToronto

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Hello

Two scenarios:

New Camera --> DNG --> LR6 --> Crop/Straighten --> Print

New Camera --> Lightroom Classic--> Crop/Straighten --> Print

Will I see any difference?

Obviously, LR6 doesn't have features (eg dehaze) that LR Classic does. But, I don't care for the new features. I actually like LR for its print and export modules. (Call me crazy.) Is continuing to use LR6 via DNG a viable longterm plan? (Assuming my computer and operating system continue to support LR6.)

Thanks.

Yc
Toronto
 
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LR6 doesn't have features (eg dehaze) that LR Classic does
As Roelof states above, there is more in LRc than LRC. For me, the Auto Tone setting in LRc is something I use all the time on RAW files. If you use it in LR6, then you may notice a difference.

You are likely not going to know what the differences are for you unless you try it. There are free trials of LRc available via Free Trial of Creative Cloud albeit with conditions; "By starting my 7‑day free trial, I am beginning a subscription and I agree to the subscription and cancellation terms and Terms of Use"
 
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kimballistic

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Hello

Two scenarios:

New Camera --> DNG --> LR6 --> Crop/Straighten --> Print

New Camera --> Lightroom Classic--> Crop/Straighten --> Print

Will I see any difference?

One example I can think of: you won't get any automatic lens corrections for distortion & vignetting for any lenses released after LR6, so it depends on what the new camera & lenses are and whether you use lens corrections.

Obviously, LR6 doesn't have features (eg dehaze) that LR Classic does. But, I don't care for the new features. I actually like LR for its print and export modules. (Call me crazy.) Is continuing to use LR6 via DNG a viable longterm plan? (Assuming my computer and operating system continue to support LR6.)

No, you're asking for trouble IMHO, precisely because that last assumption--that your computer and OS will continue to support LR6--is rapidly becoming harder to hold as Apple moves on in the world away from 32-bit software* and Intel chips. LR6 is a ticking time bomb. Eventually you'll need to buy a new computer, either planned or unplanned, and LR6 will not run on it, leaving you in an emergency state.

Any particular reason for not wanting to stay current with Lightroom Classic?

* = LR6 is 64-bit but it's my understanding the installer is 32-bit.

Also:

 
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leaving you in an emergency state.
I do not disagree that LR6 will eventually be fully unsupported and obsolete, but I am not sure that migrating from LR6 to LR Classic is really an emergency state as much as a an upgrade. Buy a subscription, install Creative Cloud and LR Classic, and the program will read the LR6 catalog and convert it to the most current version. But, yes, I agree that if one wants to keep using LR in the future, then an upgrade should be anticipated.

--Ken
 
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kimballistic

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I do not disagree that LR6 will eventually be fully unsupported and obsolete, but I am not sure that migrating from LR6 to LR Classic is really an emergency state as much as a an upgrade. Buy a subscription, install Creative Cloud and LR Classic, and the program will read the LR6 catalog and convert it to the most current version. But, yes, I agree that if one wants to keep using LR in the future, then an upgrade should be anticipated.

I agree, however if YcToronto hasn't already upgraded because of a moral or philosophical objection to software subscriptions (seems common among LR6 users), then LR6 abruptly becoming unusable would be a true emergency for them. That's why I asked why they haven't upgraded yet.
 
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I agree, however if YcToronto hasn't already upgraded because of a moral or philosophical objection to software subscriptions (seems common among LR6 users), then LR6 abruptly becoming unusable would be a true emergency for them. That's why I asked why they haven't upgraded yet.
That is true. An unplanned problem occurring could create an emergency.

--Ken
 
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That is true. An unplanned problem occurring could create an emergency.

--Ken

In that case, why run obsolete software on the most current OS? If you are going to stay on LR6, then you need a version of Windows or MacOS designed to support it. Of course these Operating systems are going to fall obsolete and vulnerable to security issues .

MacOS is always a free upgrade. The last I paid attention, Windows new version were still being sold by Microsoft. But this may have changed to compete with Apple.


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YewChenToronto

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I agree, however if YcToronto hasn't already upgraded because of a moral or philosophical objection to software subscriptions (seems common among LR6 users), then LR6 abruptly becoming unusable would be a true emergency for them. That's why I asked why they haven't upgraded yet.

I don't draw moral or philosophical lines-in-sand over a piece of software. :)

My approach to upgrading is to ask if LR6 can still do what I want it to do. Up until recently, LR6 did everything I needed to do to process and output a RAW file. The biggest drawback of LR6, for me, is working with RAW files from newer cameras. DNG offers me a way around that hurdle, so long as I don't loose any output quality in the process.
 
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kimballistic

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I don't draw moral or philosophical lines-in-sand over a piece of software. :)

Well that's refreshing! I can't tell you how many complaints I've seen from other LR6 users holding out because they refuse to "subscribe" to software. Meanwhile they whine about not getting lifetime free updates from a one-time purchase.

Good on you. Sounds like a healthy approach. Good luck, whatever you decide.
 
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In that case, why run obsolete software on the most current OS? If you are going to stay on LR6, then you need a version of Windows or MacOS designed to support it. Of course these Operating systems are going to fall obsolete and vulnerable to security issues .

MacOS is always a free upgrade. The last I paid attention, Windows new version were still being sold by Microsoft. But this may have changed to compete with Apple.


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Yes, but this just transfers potential issues from the program to the OS. There are just too many security issues out there that keep me from running an OS that is not actively supported and patched. Win10 is somewhat free these days depending on how one goes about upgrading. And I have not been charged for any major upgrades to Win10 since it has been on my machines.

--Ken
 
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New Camera --> DNG --> LR6 --> Crop/Straighten --> Print

New Camera --> Lightroom Classic--> Crop/Straighten --> Print
Yc Toronto, a lot of good points from others about your proposed solution but I'd like to suggest to you to revisit, and redefine, the problem you are trying to solve. Yes, you have a solution now with LR6 but it may be time to look at different approaches that may improve what you are doing.

This depends on how much of LR6's library management you use and the existing LR Develop module. If you use these, then a plan to LRc as others had discussed, is likely indicated.

Some thoughts to look in other areas:
  • You didn't indicate why you felt it necessary to convert to DNG. If you are not doing any development then you may just want to configure your new camera to output the highest quality JPEG file and use that. A JPEG will make print abilities simpler. Does you camera have a bulit-in crop?
  • There are a number of free resizing utilities that would replace Export capabilities.
  • There are a number of different free approaches form 'combining' JPEGS depending on what you are using. Google 'combine "multiple JPEG images on single print page".
  • There are free alternatives to LR like GIMP that offers print and export capabilities. Not that I'm trying to divert you away from LR. Personally, I find GIMP to complicated as compare to LR.
 
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There are just too many security issues out there that keep me from running an OS that is not actively supported and patched. Win10 is somewhat free these days depending on how one goes about upgrading. And I have not been charged for any major upgrades to Win10 since it has been on my machines.
I think it is a "chicken and egg" situation. At some point older software won't run on newer Operation Systems You need to stay current on the OS because of Security issues. So you need to stay current on your favorite apps too. More and more software developers are moving to a subscription model. Commercial software developers developing for company applications have always used a subscription model. Long before there were PCs and PC apps. Microsoft Office is offered as a subscription now. ON1 Photo RAW and CaptureOne are offered as a subscription with free upgrades or as a one time purchase with no free upgrades. These are Adobe's nearest competitors.
If you have never worked in Business and had to deal with Commercial software then you might have come to the conclusion that being able to purchase a software lines for a single version was the norm when in reality it never was the norm.

As for Microsoft Windows, I recall there was an upgrade fee for Windows 8 from Windows 7 and again from Windows 8 to Windows 10. Will there be an upgrade fee when Windows 10 is superseded by Windows 11? Apple did not charge for going from MacOS 10 to MacOS 11.
 
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kimballistic

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Some thoughts to look in other areas:
  • You didn't indicate why you felt it necessary to convert to DNG. If you are not doing any development then you may just want to configure your new camera to output the highest quality JPEG file and use that. A JPEG will make print abilities simpler. Does you camera have a bulit-in crop?

Great points. I took the example scenarios to be a question about whether DNG+LR6 will produce different results than original raw+LrC.

But if that scenario represents the entirety of one's Develop workflow, cropping/straightening and then printing a JPG from the camera is a better option.

Raw files cry out to be developed. They are unfinished, even when loaded into LR with a good color profile.
 
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Raw files cry out to be developed. They are unfinished, even when loaded into LR with a good color profile.
RAW files are not even images. Recorded image data is stored in photo sites that have to be combined with other photo sites to create RGB pixels. They need to be demosaic'd and converted to RGB before there is an image to view. Once converted to RGB, apps like Lightroom need to apply some basic edits to present a viewable image to the viewer.
 
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kimballistic

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RAW files are not even images. Recorded image data is stored in photo sites that have to be combined with other photo sites to create RGB pixels. They need to be demosaic'd and converted to RGB before there is an image to view. Once converted to RGB, apps like Lightroom need to apply some basic edits to present a viewable image to the viewer.
Agreed. This is an important nuance.
 

YewChenToronto

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I oversimplified my 2 scenarios. Here's what I do with all my RAWs or DNGs.

  • Import at the end of day with one or two keywords applied to all photos. During import, I apply a develop preset.
  • (Once or twice per year, I shoot tethered.)
  • Cull the obvious rejects. Go thru the whole import setting pick flags. I don't use stars. If I was shooting lots of bursts, I stack my photos.
  • For those flagged, I process individually.
  • I start with adjusting exposure (if necessary). Adjust white balance (if necessary) possibly using the eye dropper. Adjust highlights/shadows (if necessary). Set white/black point (almost always). Add a bit of clarity (almost always). I very rarely adjust tint, contrast or saturation. I have never used the Auto Tone or Auto White Balance.
  • I occasional convert my photos to B&W. I rarely use the HSL panel. If I do, it is to "pop" or "de pop" as certain color(s) using the targeted adjustment tool.
  • I sharpen every photo using the import develop preset as a baseline. Every select photo then gets individual sharpening and, if needed, noise reduction.
  • Lens correction is turned on although, as kimballistic pointed out above, my newer lenses are not supported even in DNG.
  • I have, if needed, used the "transform" panel to correct perspective and the "effects" panel to add post crop vignetting.
  • I use the Camera Calibration panel to match (via the import develop preset) my camera profile.
  • I use, as needed, the Adjustment Brush, Graduated/Radial Filter and Spot removal tool. I've never used the Red Eye tool.
  • I would, as needed, edit further with PS CS6 :), or Nik Collection.
  • I crop and straighten horizon as needed.
  • I have never used the Map, Book, Slideshow or Web modules of LR6. I also never used the facial recognition or painter tool.
  • I use (a lot) the export, print and publishing features of LR6 with lots of preset geared to my workflow.
  • When I am done editing, I rename my selects, export as TIFF, color label and add more keywords. The color label is to indicate further action (frame, competition etc). The additional keywords will send the selects to the right smart collections.
There! I've never actually enumerated by workflow in such detail. I was a good exercise for me. Thanks Paul_DS256.

And, yes, I can see the writing on the wall. LR6 days (perpatual license or not) are numbered. DNG is, at best, an imperfect solution.
 
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