Transform - Auto - "Update" Question

[GregJ]

Lightroom Version Number

Latest Classic

Operating System

1. Windows 11

I'm shooting right now on a trip and will be editing heavily in LR every night and morning for the next 5 weeks. I shoot a lot of city scenic shots with parallel lines structures and lines both vertical and horizontal and am aware on every shot to keep my camera level and sensor level to avoid key-stoning as much as possible (unless I want it).

In post, I almost always apply auto in the Transform Module. I have noticed over the years that it has become much better in figuring out exactly what I need automatically. It does a great job at straightening my framing mistakes and keeps me from having to draw lines with the Guided Upright Tool as much as I used to.

When I'm editing a shot and apply the edits to the next ten shots that are similarly lit (as an example) as a good start point, everything copies over except the auto Transform. To apply that, I have to go through every shot and click on "update". That is OK, because I must see on every image if it works or not. It usually does, but sometimes causes chaos and I remove it.

But is there any way to apply the command to all the images without having to then click on update? I would rather do that and then cruise through the images and if I see one that was applied badly, I can just turn it off, instead of having to click on update on every image.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

You should only sync the Upright Mode, not the Upright Transforms. Syncing the transforms means you apply the same transformation to all images, so that overrides the Auto transform. https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/upright-automatic-perspective-correction.html

 

[GregJ]

Johan, I'm not following what you mean on that but will study it further. Just to be sure you know what I mean:

I click on "Auto" in the Transform Module (and "upright is already always highlighted) on literally every image in post because about 85% of the time it completely solves whatever problem I have in regard to level horizons and slight keystoning and alignment issues. That Auto button is is an amazing algorithm that I am quite certain has been much improved over the years by Adobe. Occasionally, I have to go below to the Transform sliders and further level out the horizon using the Rotate slider. I sometimes apply the other sliders as well on specific images in post. Sometimes, but not often because "Auto" usually does the trick.

I also sometimes spend a lot of time drawing lines with the guided upright tool in order to do some complex surgery on any keystoning, but that is maybe 1 in 100 shots because I'm a very experienced photographer and I know how to shoot to avoid severe problems in post. If I have to tilt the sensor or down, I know what I will get in post and usually don't pull the trigger unless I want to. If I can't deal with it in post or have to crop too much on the correction, I delete it.

When I use the guided upright tool and draw lines, I never want to copy that setting to another image because of course it is specific to that one image only. Same with using the rotate slider (or others there) to level out a horizon when the Auto tool does not solve it (which it usually does).

What I do want to apply on a selection of images on a syn is "Auto" because like I said, that works 85% of the time. But when I sync it, I then have to go back in on every image and click on "update". I don't know why it requires that. It would seem to me that it would apply the algorithm without another click on each image.

I was wondering if there is any way to avoid that and for "auto" to be applied to all images on the selection with sync.



.

 

[gilgarci]

One thing I found is that the crop tool has a straighten tool also. Good for minor straighten adjustments but not as powerful as the transform tool.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

I seem to remember it was considered too much of a performance impact to update them all when syncing. Tech's moved on since that was last looked at though, so you could put in a request for reconsideration.

 

[GregJ]

I seem to remember it was considered too much of a performance impact to update them all when syncing. Tech's moved on since that was last looked at though, so you could put in a request for reconsideration.

Victoria...
Performance? Tell Adobe to stop holding back for old computers. The computational power is immense now even at the mid-range on all new PCs and for damn sure with Apple.
Let's do it.
Tell Adobe to not let the computational. power of my grandchildren's phone cameras best them. LOL...
I'm kidding, because my sensor on GFX is about 5 bazillion times bigger than the pea-sized sensor on a phone camera. I know it is a challenge.
But tell them to pay attention to what is happening right now in the world of desktops and laptops.
Don't hold back because they are afraid some dude with a 6 year old laptop is gonna complain that LR is slow. Call Adobe and tell them, "Let's do it!"
Thanks....

 

[Replytoken]

Victoria...
Performance? Tell Adobe to stop holding back for old computers. The computational power is immense now even at the mid-range on all new PCs and for damn sure with Apple.
Let's do it.
Tell Adobe to not let the computational. power of my grandchildren's phone cameras best them. LOL...
I'm kidding, because my sensor on GFX is about 5 bazillion times bigger than the pea-sized sensor on a phone camera. I know it is a challenge.
But tell them to pay attention to what is happening right now in the world of desktops and laptops.
Don't hold back because they are afraid some dude with a 6 year old laptop is gonna complain that LR is slow. Call Adobe and tell them, "Let's do it!"
Thanks....

Greg,

While we all hold Victoria near and dear to all things Lightroom, her Adobe contacts, and time, are not unlimited. We generally encourage members to share their requests and feedback directly through Adobe's own website. The link for those pages is in the middle of this page - https://www.lightroomqueen.com/send-bug-report-feature-request-adobe/ . You are welcome to request or share as you feel needed.

--Ken

 

[GregJ]

Greg,

While we all hold Victoria near and dear to all things Lightroom, her Adobe contacts, and time, are not unlimited. We generally encourage members to share their requests and feedback directly through Adobe's own website. The link for those pages is in the middle of this page - https://www.lightroomqueen.com/send-bug-report-feature-request-adobe/ . You are welcome to request or share as you feel needed.

--Ken

Thanks Ken. I didn't know I could interact with Adobe directly in that manner. This sight is a continual font of learning for me.
I have little clout with Adobe even though I died a death of a thousand cuts for almost 6 years defending them against troll and marketing attackers on the Fuji boards because of the famous (alleged) watercolor demoisacing issue with XTrans RAF raw files. But that is another story....

I've always wondered why "Auto" in the transform module won't update on sync and why you have to manually go into each image and click on update after a syn. I've always wondered about that because it interrupters my workflow to have to click on "update" which means one should not include that tool in a sync. In fact, I think she should add that tidbit to her next edit of the Bible. Because that Auto button is in my opinion, one of the most powerful tools in LR.

The answer for me now is to never sync that tool. Just go through one at a time and see if the Auto button works on that image (until Adobe fixes the issue).

Like I said, it helps 85% of my images and is an absolutely amazing tool - probably the most powerful and important tool in LR for my edits.
I'm doing that right now as I plow through the edits on 130 images from yesterday.

It is very interesting what she said. She knew it didn't sync and why. So, we all learned something here from her and if Adobe didn't allow that function to sync because of performance issues - well then, it is time for them to remedy that and let the processing and computational power of newer machines do the work because computers have come a long way in the past 3 years.

She said she was going to interact with Adobe on this one. Her time will be well spent because this is a big deal on a very powerful part of LR.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

She said she was going to interact with Adobe on this one. Her time will be well spent because this is a big deal on a very powerful part of LR.

I did?? Remind me where?

Honestly... while I have the pleasure of being in regular contact with the team, the number of votes on a feature request on Adobe's site has way more pull than I do.

 

[GregJ]

My bad. If you don't want to that's cool.
When I get back to the US I'll drop them a line.
But I bet you you that they'll listen to you and not to me. LOL.
But I'll give it a try...

 

[Victoria Bampton]

I’m happy to raise it but in the run up to Max it won’t get any traction. The number of votes on public feature requests makes the world of difference, even if I raise an issue. I can’t work magic, I need evidence.

 

[GregJ]

You have the evidence because auto doesn't work on sync. But I'll go upvote it and make Teresa do it too! That is two votes.
I need them to fix it now because I'm shooting in Sardinia and I'm tired of plowing through every image clicking on update. Haha.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

Now we just have to find a few more people with a similar workflow and we’ll be on the right track! It’ll get my vote. It’s got legs, it just needs enough people behind it to get before the decision makers.

 

[GregJ]

Thanks! I want all the gurus to go vote....

 

[Victoria Bampton]

It's evidence that it's a high priority for people I need to push my point, not evidence of whether it works or not. So yeah, post the link here and we can go vote.

 

[johnrellis]

But when I sync it, I then have to go back in on every image and click on "update". I don't know why it requires that. It would seem to me that it would apply the algorithm without another click on each image.

You're seeing Update because you selected Upright Transforms when syncing -- make sure you've selected just Upright Mode, as Johan advised:

Then the Auto transform will be automatically recomputed for each target photo and you won't need to click Update.

Note that there is an open bug: If you first accidentally sync/copy both Upright Mode and Upright Transforms, you won't be able to correct that mistake by then syncing just Upright Mode. You'll have to either reset all the target photos or click Update on each one in turn. See:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...t-automatically-recompute-auto/idi-p/13047371

 

[GregJ]

You're seeing Update because you selected Upright Transforms when syncing -- make sure you've selected just Upright Mode, as Johan advised:

View attachment 19358

Then the Auto transform will be automatically recomputed for each target photo and you won't need to click Update.

Note that there is an open bug: If you first accidentally sync/copy both Upright Mode and Upright Transforms, you won't be able to correct that mistake by then syncing just Upright Mode. You'll have to either reset all the target photos or click Update on each one in turn. See:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...t-automatically-recompute-auto/idi-p/13047371

Thanks John, and this is what Johan was trying to tell me too. You only check Upright Mode on syncs. What I didn't know was the bug that is described above.

Anyway, syncing "Auto" is a bit of a mixed bag because if it doesn't work, you have to turn it off for that image. I never sync a transform slider (like rotate, which is my most common correction on horizons). I can't imagine that anyone would ever sync a manual transform where we draw the lines. That would seem to never apply to more than one image.

It's just me probably, but I rarely if ever develop a raw in LR where I don't hit Auto just to see what it does.
That button is the most important tool in LR for me. No doubt. It is also very powerful and a wonderful tool. I bet a lot went into it. I trust it mightily, and it has gotten better over the years.

And when I shoot, in the EVF I have the horizon guide turned on, grid lines for framing turned on, and on Fuji cameras I also use 3D horizon. I need every framing and sensor aligning tool I can get for my kind of shooting. Then in post, I need to correct my framing errors because even though I have the best cameras in the World and a lot of shooting experience, I can't get it right most of the time. But I don't feel bad about it because nobody else can either.

That's why God gave us LR and the Auto tool.

I remember one time someone asked one of the best landscape and city scene shooters in the world (in my opinion), do you turn on the level tool in your EVF? He said, of course I do. Yes, on every shot. How else would I ever get the horizon right in an EVF?

In my unscientific analysis, I have concluded that the Auto button gets it right 68 percent of the time. When it doesn't, I start drawing lines or just use the rotate slider (or others). That never gets synced.

The only thing that needs to ever be synced is Auto.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I never sync a transform slider (like rotate, which is my most common correction on horizons). I can't imagine that anyone would ever sync a manual transform where we draw the lines. That would seem to never apply to more than one image.

One word to give you a clue: tripod. OK, two words: tripod, timelapse.

 

[GregJ]

One word to give you a clue: tripod. OK, two words: tripod, timelapse.

Thanks for the valuable tip Johan. I'll take that under advisementy.

I have four Really Right Stuff tripods and more heads than I can count. I shoot Medium Format and am a resolution and DOF junkie. That means I'm on a tripod a lot or at least on a monopod a lot more than a lot. Like almost always. Hello....

In fact, I was walking around all day yesterday with two cameras on my body and hand holding a tripod. Bet I carried it at least 3 miles.

Have you ever used a 1500 dollar tripod as a walking stick? I do.

Why? Because I'm a tripod and monopod shooter. I love my tripods.

But guess what? I still need LR to clean it up. Even after careful alignment.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I think you are completely missing my point. I'm not advising you to use a tripod. And I don't care how many tripods you have and what they cost. So what did I mean?

You said that you can't imagine that anyone would ever sync a manual transform. So here's an example when that could happen. You shoot a timelapse from a tripod, and because you want the top of the church to be in the shot too, you point the camera upwards a bit. That means that you will need to apply the exact same perspective correction to all the time lapse images. So you sync a manual transform (like a guided upright).

 

[GregJ]

I think you are completely missing my point. I'm not advising you to use a tripod. And I don't care how many tripods you have and what they cost. So what did I mean?

You said that you can't imagine that anyone would ever sync a manual transform. So here's an example when that could happen. You shoot a timelapse from a tripod, and because you want the top of the church to be in the shot too, you point the camera upwards a bit. That means that you will need to apply the exact same perspective correction to all the time lapse images. So you sync a manual transform (like a guided upright).

I don't think so Johnan. You edited the timelapse part in later. You originally said only this "One word to give you a clue. - tripod," which was flippant and sarcastic, as if I've never used a tripod or dind't know what one was for.

I don't think your point was about timelapse photography at all. If it had been, you would have bothered to use the word "time-lapse" in your response before the edit. When I responded, I didn't see the time lapse part (which you added later).

I've shot a lot of time lapse for fun, and I think most people know it's on a tripod.

Anyway, whatever. Thanks for taking the time to "give me a clue".

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I don't think so Johnan. You edited the timelapse part in later. You originally said only this "One word to give you a clue. - tripod," which was flippant and sarcastic, as if I've never used a tripod or dind't know what one was for.

I don't think your point was about timelapse photography at all. If it had been, you would have bothered to use the word "time-lapse" in your response before the edit. When I responded, I didn't see the time lapse part (which you added later).

I've shot a lot of time lapse for fun, and I think most people know it's on a tripod.

Anyway, whatever. Thanks for taking the time to "give me a clue".

Yes, I edited that in a few minutes later, because I realised that only the word ‘tripod’ would not be enough to understand my point. If you read the message before I edited it, then I apologize for that (you did not answer until later, however). Believe me, my remark was not about you and how you take photos. My remark was that there are indeed situations where syncing a manual transformation makes all the sense in the world, and that is why Adobe added that option.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

BTW, in your answer to me you quote my entire message, including the edit. So you did read the entire (edited) message before you answered.

 

[GregJ]

Yes, I edited that in a few minutes later, because I realised that only the word ‘tripod’ would not be enough to understand my point. If you read the message before I edited it, then I apologize for that (you did not answer until later, however). Believe me, my remark was not about you and how you take photos. My remark was that there are indeed situations where syncing a manual transformation makes all the sense in the world, and that is why Adobe added that option.

We are good. No worries on my end.

I can promise you that when I wrote my reply, I had not seen your edit. I thought you were messing with me a little bit on the tripod dig. It's no big deal and I appreciate the info you and John gave me on how best to sync the Auto Upright tool by checking on "Upright"" only. That helped me and I use it a lot now. I also understand the bug now and realize that once you sync it wrong, it won't allow the correction and you have to update every shot, so thus confused me because I had already done it wrong and could not correct it once I figured it out (thanks to you guys).

No worries on the tripod stuff and you are correct. On a time-lapse series, syncing a Manual Tansform where you draw the lines could be a valuable tool since the architecture in every shot is precisely the same. I knew that but you made a very good point. I was just saying that in normal shooting (non-time lapse) it would be rare to sync a manual transform (at least for me). HDR and focus stacking too I guess. I don't do HDR anymore because I have so much latitude in post with GFX. But I do focus stack with Helicon plugged into LR from time to time. But I normally would make that correction to the final DNG once it is all stacked and demosaiced. But I guess I could do it before to all the images in the stack since they are identical by using the sync tool on a manual transform (if needed).

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Yes, in case of HDR and focus stacking it makes more sense not to transform the brackets, but make the final perspective corrections on the merged result. That is what Lightroom does with merge to HDR anyway. It will ignore any corrections you made on the brackets. Helicon Focus can merge to linear DNG, and I think in that case it does the same thing: it merges the unedited brackets.