Synching problem on LrC

[Nortonian]

Lightroom Version Number

Classic v10

Operating System

1. Windows 10

I have returned to Lightroom (Lightroom Classic) after 2-3 years away. I own the vers 6.14 Perpetual Version of Lr, and have been using that to create my catalogs, using ‘Import from Another Catalog’ where I could. I ended up with 3 ‘new’ catalogs covering roughly the last 15 years of my photography.

I am in the 7-day Trial version of LrC-v10. I have upgraded my catalogs of-course to v10. All of this is on my Windows 10 desktop. My plan is to use that and my Windows 10 laptop to do my editing and file management (the vast bulk of the work), but I will also hope to use my Android phone and iPad to show my work to others.

If we say that my 3 catalogs are A (2015-2020), B (2010-2014) and C (2004-2010), then most of my current work is in catalog A. I hoped to use Smart Previews (not yet created) so that I could synch them to the Cloud and thus be able to work on them on my laptop from time to time. (If there are any obvious man-traps in that workflow, please shout them out.)

But the Cloud Icon in my top right corner was not showing any of the 4 symbols in Victoria’s book. Can’t remember how, but I eventually found out it was synching on Catalog C, apparently of its own volition! (Maybe to do with the catalogs I imported to Form A, B, and C.) The Cloud Icon revealed that my Cloud Storage was 389.9Mb of 100Gb Used (I thought my Photography Plan only gave me 20Gb); my Local Activity was ‘Synching 905 photos; and I could Pause it if I wished. Clicking on the Gear Wheel took me to Preferences, but apart from suggesting creating a folder on my desktop PC to specify a location for my Lightroom synched images, I was no further forward.


So what I am puzzled by, I think, is stopping Catalog C hogging my Synch capabilities and thus allowing me to use Catalog A to synch a small pile of photos (I think I have to put them in Collections?) so that I can work on them on my laptop or of course my desktop? I'd be grateful for any help.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

Just a couple of facts you need to be aware of-
1) You can only ever sync ONE Lr-Classic Catalog to the Cloud ecosystem. You have 3- so pick one to sync. (You could merge ALL 3- A B C, into one!)
2) The one Catalog you 'Sync' will be the Catalog that Downloads any and all photos you take/import/add to mobile devices (phones, laptops, etc)
3) Lr-Classic will only sync Proxy files 'up' to the Cloud that are smaller DNG files with a long edge dimension of 2560pixels.
4) The Proxy files synced to the Cloud are NOT the same Smart Previews you might create, so, you have no need to create them yourself for syncing.
5) The Proxy files synced 'up' to the Cloud do not occupy any storage space of your 20Gb Cloud allocation.
6) Photos you take/import/add to mobile devices do use space in your 20Gb allocation.

Changing the sync catalog from C to A is just going to eventuate in confusion! as A catalog will now want to download all the Cloud files again.
Rethink your plans. Seek more advice.

 

[Nortonian]

Thank you for your comments.
I knew that you could only sync one catalog, but the wording surrounding that fact always led me to believe that you could choose to switch from one catalog to another, so I am indeed going to have to rethink my plans!
I don't rule out merging my 3 catalogs into one, but a major reason for me leaving Lightroom a few years ago was that it allowed me to continue Backing Up what was obviously a corrupted catalog for months and months without a cheep! From other threads on this forum, I now do an Integrity Check on loading any catalog, I optimise the catalog before I exit whereupon Lightroom does the Integrity Check and Optimisation all over again. If there is a safer method, I'd appreciate learning about it now.
I wonder if I am confusing Smart Previews with Synching? To work easily between my desktop and laptop, would it be better just to copy lrcat, Previews and Smart Previews to a memory stick and transfer that to my laptop which does not have the space to hold my whole photo storage folders?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

"I wonder if I am confusing Smart Previews with Synching?"
Yes, and it is because many sources refer to the synced 'Proxy' files as "Smart Previews". The files that sync to the Cloud maybe the same as Smart Previews, but you do not have to create them yourself in LrC! The Sync process does that automatically.
Corrupt Catalogs are a 'pain' when they occur, but it seems you are doing the 'right' things with Integrity & Optimization & backups.

I find it is nice to have Lr-Classic on my laptop, but trying to sync between two Classic Catalogs is problematic. My laptop Catalog contains totally different photos to my desktop catalog. If I want to sync/transfer photos and editing between computers I use the 'Export as a Catalog' and 'Import from another Catalog' method. For 'Family' photos I also use Lightroom (v4 CLoud based) on the laptop to show photos from Collections on my home desktop catalog.
Read Victoria's blog article- ("Lightroom" being Lightroom-Classic!)
Lightroom on multiple computers?

 

[clee01l]

I don't rule out merging my 3 catalogs into one,

.Some of my best work was shot 13 years ago. I want all of my best work in the cloud for Lightroom Mobile or Sharing.

I now do an Integrity Check on loading any catalog, I optimise the catalog before I exit whereupon Lightroom does the Integrity Check and Optimisation all over again. If there is a safer method, I'd appreciate learning about it now.

I try to make a backup catalog overtime I exit Lightroom Classic. My system backup software backs up these backup catalogs. In 13 continuous years of using Lightroom, I have never had a corrupted catalog. "One catalog to rule them all, one catalog to find them, One catalog to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them; In the Land of Mordor where the shadows lie."

I wonder if I am confusing Smart Previews with Synching? To work easily between my desktop and laptop, would it be better just to copy lrcat, Previews and Smart Previews to a memory stick and transfer that to my laptop which does not have the space to hold my whole photo storage folders?
Thanks in advance.

Smart Previews are different from what gets synched from Lightroom Classic to the cloud. Smart DNGs are proxy images that are sent to the cloud. These are separate from your Smart Previews in your Smart Previews folder. You don't really need Smart Previews if you always have your original image files available.
You can sync an unlimited number of Smart DNG proxy files from LrC to the cloud and these do not count against your 20GB/1TB storage plan.

I replaced Lightroom Classic on my laptop with Lightroom to access all of my important files in the cloud. Later I replaced the 13" MBP laptop with a 12.9" iPadPro running Lightroom for the same benefit. I now use Lightroom on the iPadPro as the frontend to import into Lightroom Classic on my desktop.

 

[Jim Wilde]

There seems to be quite a lot of confusion here about Smart Previews. The SPs which sync to the cloud are the same format as what Classic uses when the user opts to build Smart Previews for travel or performance reasons. So if a Smart Preview already exists in the catalog for a specific image, and that image already has a Smart Preview in the catalog, if the user sets that image to sync LrC will use that existing SP to do the sync upload, rather than generating a new SP separately for syncing.

Whilst we can use different terminology, such as "Smart Proxies", it's probably better to stick to the Adobe terminology so that it becomes less confusing for other users.

 

[Nortonian]

I've turned to this Forum a few times in the past, but I don't think I've ever had such a revealing and helpful set of responses as these: thank you all.
What seems appealing to me right at this moment is to a) Combine my 3 catalogs into one, then b) have LrC running on my desktop and Lightroom (cloudy) running on my laptop - if that is allowed under the 20Gb, £10/$10 Plan?
Are there any pitfalls to avoid? I seem to recall reading warnings about trying to use LrC and Lr. I guess that I will have to Sign Out of one before I can sign in on the other?
Thanks again.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Are there any pitfalls to avoid? I seem to recall reading warnings about trying to use LrC and Lr. I guess that I will have to Sign Out of one before I can sign in on the other?
Thanks again.

No, there's no need to Sign Out on one before signing in on the other, you plan allows for two systems to be signed in at the same time (there are no limits regarding mobile devices, only computers running either MacOS or Windows). There shouldn't be any issue using LrC on one and Lightroom on the other....but just make sure you have your workflow sorted out. If you're sticking with the 20gb cloud allowance you'll really only want to import new images into LrC and sync SPs from there, it'll get quite complicated if you start importing large quantities of images directly into any of the cloud apps. Suggest you read the Sync chapter in your Classic Book, as Victoria has just updated it.....it'll give you advice on how to use syncing with Classic as your main base, while getting the advantages of having images in the cloud.

 

[clee01l]

Are there any pitfalls to avoid? I seem to recall reading warnings about trying to use LrC and Lr.

The only caution that I know would be to not run both Lr and LrC on the same computer. It is not that they are incompatible but it does introduce a certain amount of redundancy. If you do install Lr on the computer with LrC then don't store a local copy wit Lr.

 

[Nortonian]

Thank you gentlemen. Catalogs are combined into one and I will try some synching tomorrow.

 

[Jim Wilde]

The only caution that I know would be to not run both Lr and LrC on the same computer. It is not that they are incompatible but it does introduce a certain amount of redundancy. If you do install Lr on the computer with LrC then don't store a local copy wit Lr.

I'm not sure where that advice (not running LrC and Lr on the same system) originated. I have seen that mentioned in several different forums, and while I agree that most of the time it would be a redundancy, there are often times that I'll have both running on the same system at the same time. Admittedly, that's typically because I'm checking things out in order to provide information back into the various forums, but the point is that as they work independently of each other there's no reason not to let the user figure out if there's any value to them having both running at the same time. I agree however that it would make sense to work through the options on the Lightroom Preferences>Local Storage tab to ensure they're not keeping local original copies unneccessarily (if indeed there are any originals in the cloud).

 

[clee01l]

I'm not sure where that advice (not running LrC and Lr on the same system) originated.

I'm pretty sure I got it from you. And like I said. it is only a caution for the reasons I mentioned. It is not that they are incompatible and like you I run both types of Lightroom on the same computer.

 

[Jim Wilde]

I may well have said that there's generally no need to run both apps on the same system (which I think we agree on), but I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if I ever said that they shouldn't be run on the same system.

 

[Nortonian]

Thanks to you guys out there, I feel I am making good progress. I have LrC running on my desktop, and Lr running on my laptop, phone and ipad.

However, in LrC, Catalogs tells me that there are 1450 synched photos. Apart from 2 or 3, these have not been synched, knowingly, by me since I came back to Lightroom last week. (In an earlier post, I did say that one of my (then) 3 catalogs was hogging the synch option, so I must have done something prior to leaving Lightroom in or around 2017.)

In these 1450 images in the Cloud, I couldn’t help but notice that 20-30% of them are actually duplicates. I want to tidy that matter up of course. However, although a very large number of Collections came across as I imported catalogs last week, very very few are marked up as synched (double arrow). And even more alarming, these ‘dupes’ do not appear in my Folders! They do show in Explorer on my hard disk though.

If it is relevant, the Catalogs section shows 409 ‘Updated Photos’ and ‘Failed to Copy’ photos – I think I tried unsuccessfully to sort the problem 2 or 3 days ago, and attempted to download them to a new Folder on my hard disk.

If any of these things make sense and you point out the error of my ways, I can maybe get out of your hair for a while.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

Whilst we can use different terminology, such as "Smart Proxies", it's probably better to stick to the Adobe terminology so that it becomes less confusing for other users.

A good point Jim. (I assume your comments were directed at my references to "proxy files")
Perhaps I am trying to discourage users from 'Manually' creating Smart Previews that will rapidly consume local hard-drive space if many files are selected to create SPs.
Creating SPs manually is not needed. Any Sync process in LrC will automatically create the SPs for the Cloud without storing a local version.

 

[Jim Wilde]

No, it wasn't aimed specifically at you, Rob, I've probably been guilty of some of that as well. Yes, Smart Previews are "proxies", and yes they are "lossy DNGs", but that's the same for all Smart Previews that Lightroom and LrC generates, but by using those different labels we were in danger of giving the impression that the Smart Previews generated in Classic for Develop purposes are somehow different to the Smart Previews which Classic syncs to the Cloud, which isn't the case. So I just think it would be less confusing if we all just called them Smart Previews and leave it at that.

You're correct to say that SPs do not need to be pre-generated by the user in order to sync (and it could even be a bad idea if the user is trying to use the loophole which allows that one-time transfer of all metadata, including keywords and location data, when an image is synced for the first time).