Sort order in albums/collections

[Minguy]

Operating System

1. Android

LR Mobile 11.5.01 is not respecting filename sorting from a collection created in LR Classic. I very deliberately named files consecutively in LR Classic collection, then turned on Share. The album that results in Mobile will not keep that order (sorting set to filename). This is really screwing up my plans to present before/after pics in my chosen order in a shared album for clients. Any suggestions? Thanks

 

[Gnits]

Can you do a screen grab of the image filenames in filename sequence.

I have just tried a test Album collection..and had no difficulty with different sort criteria on an iPad.

 

[Jim Wilde]

then turned on Share.

What do you mean by that? Did you mean that you turned on Sync? Or did you set it up as a shared album, but that wouldn't be relevant if you are viewing the synced album in LrM.

 

[Minguy]

Clee, Jim, I took a screengrab of the LRc collection sorted by filename and then turned on sync. It synced to Mobile (Android). Then I screengrabbed the Collection (Album) Mobile, sorted by filename, and the order is not respected. See Attached.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Have you verified that the filename renames have all correctly synced to the cloud? And can you ensure that the File Name sort order is the same progression in both apps (A to Z or Z to A), then take screenshots from both apps that show all the images in the album/collection.

 

[clee01l]

Like Matt, I have no difficulty sorting by filename on Lightroom Mobile on an iPhone. So, if Jim's suggestions do not pan out, the only oddity seems to be Android

 

[Minguy]

I did it all over from scratch and only LR Desktop (Win 11) maintains the numerical order. LR Mobile (Android tablet and phone) doesn't respect filename order despite offering that under "Sort by". Likewise, lightroom.adobe.com doesn't sort by filename and doesn't offer it under "Sort by". So I don't know if this is a bug, a feature request, or a limitation of the platform.

 

[Gnits]

Can you post a txt file with the list of file names (say from the Windows pc).

I will experiment with a few diff scenarios..

I can also use the list to create some dummy files and see what happens when I synch them to an LrCloud album, etc..

 

[Minguy]

I don't think I know what you're asking for exactly. Attached is a screengrab showing the grid sorted by filename and the collection they're in. In sharing this collection, the order is only being respected in LR Desktop.

 

[Gnits]

Change the filename of Crowell1.jpg to Crowell01.jpg, Crowell2.jpg to Crowell02.jpg. etc.

This is a classic sorting gottcha.. the numeric aspect needs to have a consistent number of digits to sort consistently... otherwise ..

Test1, Test2, Test3....Test11 will sort as follows..

Test1
Test11
Test2
Test3.

I suspect this is the core of the issue.

If you had more than 100 images in the list.. then you would use 3 significant numeric segment.. eg..
T001
T002
...
T099
T100
T101

Etc.

 

[Gnits]

You can use the Filename field in the LrC Library Metadata right hand panel to easily edit the filenames.. which makes minor edits to filenames a breeze.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Change the filename of Crowell1.jpg to Crowell01.jpg, Crowell2.jpg to Crowell02.jpg. etc.

This is a classic sorting gottcha.. the numeric aspect needs to have a consistent number of digits to sort consistently... otherwise ..

Test1, Test2, Test3....Test11 will sort as follows..

Test1
Test11
Test2
Test3.

I suspect this is the core of the issue.

If you had more than 100 images in the list.. then you would use 3 significant numeric segment.. eg..
T001
T002
...
T099
T100
T101

Etc.

I have fuzzy recollections of that ordering on Windows, and that may still be the case on on that platform, but it's no longer the case on Mac (see attached screenshot from Finder) and indeed not the case in Lightroom. See the screenshot in post #9, which shows the 20 images displayed in the correct sequence, which I assume is sorted in File Name order.

 

[clee01l]

Change the filename of Crowell1.jpg to Crowell01.jpg, Crowell2.jpg to Crowell02.jpg. etc.

This is a classic sorting gottcha.. the numeric aspect needs to have a consistent number of digits to sort consistently... otherwise ..

Test1, Test2, Test3....Test11 will sort as follows..

Test1
Test11
Test2
Test3.

I suspect this is the core of the issue.

If you had more than 100 images in the list.. then you would use 3 significant numeric segment.. eg..
T001
T002
...
T099
T100
T101

Etc.

I think Matt has come across the solution to the problem. I routinely create renamed files on export to reserve the custom sort order in the Lightroom Grid.

 

[Jim Wilde]

I did it all over from scratch and only LR Desktop (Win 11) maintains the numerical order. LR Mobile (Android tablet and phone) doesn't respect filename order despite offering that under "Sort by". Likewise, lightroom.adobe.com doesn't sort by filename and doesn't offer it under "Sort by". So I don't know if this is a bug, a feature request, or a limitation of the platform.

Can we see a screenshot of the complete album in grid view in Lightroom Mobile (in File Name order) so we can see the differences between LrC and LrM?

 

[Gnits]

I totally accept that Mac may have a smart approach to sorting as per example on post #12... I am a basic Mac user , so this is new info to me.

I suspect what may be the fly in the ointment is that the Adobe Cloud servers may be mainframes or unix servers, etc.. which may not respect or recognise the pattern of filenames presented.

It is after 11 pm in Ireland now.. I will do some tests tomorrow.

Also.. re Cletus posts.. notice how LrC allows various patterns of numeric seq numbers to be used ( eg nn or nnn or nnnn etc) to ensure that the filename sequence is well formed.. for any file renaming operations.

 

[Gnits]

Ps.. This is the default sort order inside Numbers on iPad.

This list started as T1,T2, T3, T11, T12 before I sorted the list.

 

[Jim Wilde]

I suspect what may be the fly in the ointment is that the Adobe Cloud servers may be mainframes or unix servers, etc.. which may not respect or recognise the pattern of filenames presented.

I really don't think the problem is in the Adobe Cloud servers. I've imported those pictures as per my screenshot into LrD, where they are presented in correct filename order as per the Finder list. After syncing to the cloud, they appear in Lightroom Mobile (iOS and iPadOS) in the same order when Filename is the selected sort order, and it's the same when they download into LrC.
In LrWeb, things are slightly different as only Capture Time and Custom Order are the only two sort orders when using either the Adaptive or Square Grids. However, when using the Share Layout Grid (which only displays in the Custom Order) it is possible to reset that Custom Order into various other orders, including FileName.....and after resetting the Custom Order to FileName, the images are displayed in the same correct order as LrC, LrD and LrM. Hence why I feel that there's not a problem in the Cloud Servers.

But none of that explains why @Minguy is seeing a different order in LrM, which is why we need to see the exact order that is displayed there when FileName order is selected, to see if we can figure it out.

 

[Gnits]

I plan to build 2 test folders of test images on a Win PC, with a 2 digit numeric segment and second folder with filename format as shown.

I will synch to a LrCloud Album and then explore with Web, IOS and Mac clients. I will explore various sort options. If I spot anything I will post here.. It may be later this evening.

I was speculating re Adobe servers as a possible explanation..

Some of the sort options for Web Albums are difficult for me to find.. probably I do not need them, or use them often enough.... but I did have an issue getting the sequence I wanted a few months ago and remains an outstanding query for me to resolve.

 

[Gnits]

I have done a basic test and I am shocked...

This is the sequence I get both on Lightroom Classic and Lightroom Desktop (viewing a synched collection/album).

I created a plain image .. added a label to indicate its filename and saved the image with the filenames listed here.

My biggest shock....

Here is the list of files in Explorer (Win 11) sorted in file name sequence.

I expected Test_1 to be followed by Test_11.

I need to research this further ..

 

[Gnits]

FYI.

Windows introduced 'Logical Numerical Sorting' at some point in time. I need to dig deeper.

I still suspect if you rename Test1, Test2, Test11 etc... to Test01, Test02, Test11... etc you may get the result you wish..

but for me I need to understand this behaviour more..

 

[clee01l]

FYI.

Windows introduced 'Logical Numerical Sorting' at some point in time. I need to dig deeper.

I still suspect if you rename Test1, Test2, Test11 etc... to Test01, Test02, Test11... etc you may get the result you wish..

but for me I need to understand this behaviour more..

"File managers such as Windows Explorer (since Windows XP) and Midnight Commander utilize natural sorting by default to display file lists."

Until reading about sorting order, I did not realize the Natural sorting. (as opposed to Lexicographical sorting) was available in such languages as PERL,Python, PHP etc.

 

[Minguy]

I really appreciate all the contributions and the work you've all done. I did so many similar tests myself. I've found a simpler solution that I have tested successfully on all platforms. If you sort the shared LrC collection by Custom Order before creating the public link, it has yet to fail. No file re-naming trickery needed. Doesn't matter if you reorder the collection beforehand or not. I don't know how to regard this workaround, bug or feature request, but this cost all of us some time and effort for a case that ought to be academic. Thank you again.