Some basic layer vs smart object questions and some sizing issues....

[Stumped]

Operating System

1. macOS 26 Tahoe

I tried this on the Adobe site, but struck out. I have a few related issues that I cannot for for life of me figure out as a Basic beginner with Photoshop. Latest version on Mac.

First: I have a physical transparent scale used for measuring stamps that I have scanned as a .jpeg at 1200ppi. While it's on transparent plastic film, it does have some writing on it and a background from scanning which I would like to remove and just see the numerical measuring hashes. When I go through the process of making it transparent the file size goes from original 8MB to about 160MB and I cannot figure out how to make the file size smaller and remove some of the extra writing on the scale that I do not need? The process I use is this to make it transparent from a YouTube Short ( after I level the image ):

Transparent Item


My next challenge has to do with layers vs smart objects I believe?!? In using the scale ( I have been given some smaller sized ones) in .gif and .psd format. The files I am measuring are scanned in at 1200 and are either.tiff or .jpg. When I open my subject stamp in PS and then drag & drop the scale on the image, the scale is automatically re-sizing to fit inside the image even though both are at the same 1200ppi. If I copy & paste the scale, this does not happen - but - I hone have to 1st increase the canvas size of the subject before I copy & paste the scale onto the image.

Is there some way to be able to open 1200ppi subject and drag & drop same size scale & be able to use without having to 1st enlarge canvas , copy & paste?

For reference, here's an example subject stamp & scale both at 1200ppi that I have been trying with:

Well, the scan for the scale image is too large to attach at 8MB. Another basic I dont quite get is how to re-size ( reduce file size) without affecting the dimensions of the scale as to make it inaccurate or not properly scaled....

Anyhow, if anyone has an ideas I'm all ears while I do some reading re: layers & smart objects, etc.... But this has been KILLING ME.... Tks!!

 

[Stumped]

PS - when I have the scale over the image, I use the arrow buttons to move the scale over the image. Is there a way to increase the speed of the movement when holding down the arrow button ??

 

[Conrad Chavez]

I remember this from the Photoshop community forum, but these questions are a little more specific so they might let you make more progress. Yes, there’s a lot going on here that could confuse a new user. Taking these one by one…

First: I have a physical transparent scale used for measuring stamps that I have scanned as a .jpeg at 1200ppi. While it's on transparent plastic film, it does have some writing on it and a background from scanning which I would like to remove and just see the numerical measuring hashes. When I go through the process of making it transparent the file size goes from original 8MB to about 160MB and I cannot figure out how to make the file size smaller and remove some of the extra writing on the scale that I do not need? The process I use is this to make it transparent from a YouTube Short ( after I level the image ):

In the current version of Photoshop, it might be easier to remove the background by just clicking the Remove Background button in the Contextual Task Bar. The method used in the YouTube short does work, but it’s sort of the long way around; there are multiple simpler ways to do the same thing if Remove Background doesn’t work.

To remove extra writing, you can either use the Erase tool, or select around them and press Delete.

File size depends on number of pixels, number of channels, number of layers, bit depth, and what kind of data compression is used (if any). The scale is probably simple black lines, and that should compress well. To try to bring down the file size of the 160MB document, try these:
If the document is 16 bits per channel, change it to 8 bits per channel (Image > Mode > 8bits/channel).
If the document is in TIFF format, try saving it as TIFF with the ZIP or LZW compression option.

Other ways to try and reduce file size are downsampling, flattening, and changing the file type to something that compresses better. But in this specific case with the scale image…
Don’t downsample, or the scale will no longer be the right size.
Don’t flatten, because it will lose the transparency.
Don’t save as JPEG for better compression, because JPEG doesn’t support transparency.
Don’t save as GIF, because it doesn’t support ppi metadata.

Is there some way to be able to open 1200ppi subject and drag & drop same size scale & be able to use without having to 1st enlarge canvas , copy & paste?

There are two things here that might interact in a way that most people don't expect:

• Photoshop does take ppi into account when combining images.
• There’s a setting that can scale down an imported image if it’s larger than the receiving document. That setting might be resizing imported images when you don’t want it to, so turn it off as shown below.

To address those, try this:

1. In Photoshop, open the Preferences (Settings) dialog box, and in the General panel, make sure Resize Image During Place is disabled.
2. When you add an image like the scale to the stamp, make sure both images use file formats that can save ppi metadata, because some formats like GIF cannot. As long as both images actually have 1200 ppi in their metadata, if the setting in step 1 is disabled, they should place at a size consistent with the containing document’s ppi resolution.

when I have the scale over the image, I use the arrow buttons to move the scale over the image. Is there a way to increase the speed of the movement when holding down the arrow button ??

When using arrow keys to nudge, the Shift key amplifies the value. For the Move tool, one arrow key press moves one unit, and Shift+arrow moves it 10x that unit (e.g. 10 pixels instead of 1 pixel). This Shift key modifier works in many Adobe applications including Lightroom Classic.

 

[Stumped]

remember this from the Photoshop community forum, but these questions are a little more specific so they might let you make more progress. Yes, there’s a lot going on here that could confuse a new user. Taking these one by one…


In the current version of Photoshop, it might be easier to remove the background by just clicking the Remove Background button in the Contextual Task Bar. The method used in the YouTube short does work, but it’s sort of the long way around; there are multiple simpler ways to do the same thing if Remove Background doesn’t work.

To remove extra writing, you can either use the Erase tool, or select around them and press Delete.

Ok, here's the 1st shot..... I found the Remove Background in the Contextual Task bar - all it did was give me this checkered background

It didnt make it transparent. I also tried to box the top line to try delete using the marque tool and the frame tool and neither worked. Either nothing happened when I hit delete or I got an error message which I did not screenshot. BUT, I just went back to the image and the contextual window is gone , but I tried to select an area one more time and the window appears again:

I had used the eraser and that worked. Ive zipped the file to try to attach one more time. Zip file not allowed. Here ive save a copy I THINK as original size with fewer pixels ?!? OK, won't attache - says too large at 3.4MB - I did it at 72ppi. Its an 8bit .jpg

 

[Conrad Chavez]

OK, I see what happened: Remove Background didn’t work because the scale has its own colored background and black edge bits that cause the software to think it’s part of the subject and shouldn't be removed. In this case, the Select > Color Range command suggested in the YouTube short is a good idea.

Ok, here's the 1st shot..... I found the Remove Background in the Contextual Task bar - all it did was give me this checkered background

The checkered background is correct. It’s what Photoshop uses to indicate a transparent area. The reason Photoshop uses a checkerboard is so that you can tell the difference between transparency and white. If you see solid white, that’s not transparent, that’s an opaque white color.

Here’s how I did it, as shown in the demo below (using the posted screen shots, so the stamp and scale are not to scale!):

1. This document has two layers and no solid background, so if both layers are hidden, you see the checkerboard indicating full transparency. (Your stamp file may have a fully opaque Background layer, which is totally OK if you’re overlaying the gauge.)
2. I select the Gauge layer.
3. I choose the command Layer > Layer Style > Blending Options. The Layer Style dialog box opens to Blending Options.
4. I drag the white slider at the light end of the Current Layer scale, to start hiding the lightest tones in the Gauge layer. I stop dragging before it hides the darker tones in the scale markings. Now the underlying Stamp layer shows through the lighter tones in the Gauge layer, which are now hidden. Just before the Layer Style dialog box is closed, you see the white slider being split to feather the transition; this is done by holding down the Alt (Windows) or Option (macOS) key while dragging one half of that slider.
5. In the Layers panel, I try some layer blending modes to see if any make the scale a little easier to read. I settle on the Multiply blending mode.

Again, this is not the only way to do this. It’s just the way I would approach it.

 

[Stumped]

Here are 3 more I tried... No. 3 file screenshot is correct - I see you posted your screen recording before I finished this.... Here are some of what im running in to. Let me mess around looking at your example and I'll get back later tonight - it's getting a little late and ive got an anniversary dinner . Tks for the tips! One thing I did find out today B & N now carries NO Adobe books besides the Dummie ones.... Mine are outdated... Text box in red outline

 

[Stumped]

there are multiple simpler ways to do the same thing

Does it impact the final file version according to which order i do the operations to make the transparent guage? IOW, if i level & crop before i make transparent the remove background OR if i 1st remove background then crop, etc.? Does order of operations make a difference?

In your demo above, should i get rid of unwanted background writing 1st before doing your method?

Still cannot drag & drop onto stamp and get usable scale whether files are same format or not and with resample checked or unchecked

 

[UtahLlama]

Is there some way to be able to open 1200ppi subject and drag & drop same size scale & be able to use without having to 1st enlarge canvas , copy & paste?

Instead of drag and drop you could Copy, then run an Action that does everything else with one click.

Photoshop's Actions are super easy just hit record and stop when done.
The one in the picture would work for you.
First copy the pixels you want to the clipboard.
Then Record a new Action, Paste, then Convert the Layer to a Smart Object, Stop /Done.
In my example I've added activating the Free Transform tool but you can pretty much add anything once you figure out your final workflow. To add an additional Menu Item, Edit the Action , Right click on the "Convert to Smart Object" Step and select Insert Menu Item, then navigate and click on the Free Transform.

When you paste and then immediately convert to Smart Object, you'll retain all of the pixels outside the crop, so you shouldn't need to have the larger canvas. Of course you could just as easily build the extend canvas into you Action.


The reason your file balloons up to 160MB is primarily down to resolution being so high at 1200ppi so if full size is 1:1 about A7 size that's double and double again at 300ppi so equivalent to A3 at 300ppi. If you can make sure the background has no stray pixels, so either transparent or 255 in all channels then LZW compressed TIFF will work well..

 

[Stumped]

@UtahLlama - ahh, i thought there had to be a way to automate! I. Currently of town for a bit but will experiment when i get back. Many thanks! What workspace is that automate in?

 

[UtahLlama]

I use a customised Workspace in Photoshop CC2026. But you can access the Actions Panel from the Window dropdown of the top Menu bar, in any Workspace .

 

[Conrad Chavez]

Does it impact the final file version according to which order i do the operations to make the transparent guage? IOW, if i level & crop before i make transparent the remove background OR if i 1st remove background then crop, etc.? Does order of operations make a difference?

For those specific operations, the order doesn’t matter because in this case they don’t depend on each other. You can decide the order based on what is less work or faster overall. But the way I would approach it is, after opening the gauge file:

1. Make the background transparent.
2. Save in a format that supports transparency and preserves resolution ppi metadata.
3. Erase what I don’t want.
4. Level and crop.

Some would disagree with #4, they say crop first. But I like to work with the entire original file because, at least with photos, sometimes I realize later that I want to bring back something I cropped out and that makes me re-do some edits near edges. For this gauge, that doesn't matter so much.

If the computer being used is very slow, it can sometimes help to do cropping first, to cut down on the number of pixels the computer has to process in later steps.

 

[RoyReed]

For those specific operations, the order doesn’t matter because in this case they don’t depend on each other. You can decide the order based on what is less work or faster overall. But the way I would approach it is, after opening the gauge file:

1. Make the background transparent.
2. Save in a format that supports transparency and preserves resolution ppi metadata.
3. Erase what I don’t want.
4. Level and crop.

Some would disagree with #4, they say crop first. But I like to work with the entire original file because, at least with photos, sometimes I realize later that I want to bring back something I cropped out and that makes me re-do some edits near edges. For this gauge, that doesn't matter so much.

If the computer being used is very slow, it can sometimes help to do cropping first, to cut down on the number of pixels the computer has to process in later steps.

It's probably better to create a clip mask to erase what you want/don't want. It's far easier to go back and change things that way.

 

[Stumped]

Instead of drag and drop you could Copy, then run an Action that does everything else with one click.

View attachment 30065
Photoshop's Actions are super easy just hit record and stop when done.
The one in the picture would work for you.
First copy the pixels you want to the clipboard.
Then Record a new Action, Paste, then Convert the Layer to a Smart Object, Stop /Done.
In my example I've added activating the Free Transform tool but you can pretty much add anything once you figure out your final workflow. To add an additional Menu Item, Edit the Action , Right click on the "Convert to Smart Object" Step and select Insert Menu Item, then navigate and click on the Free Transform.

When you paste and then immediately convert to Smart Object, you'll retain all of the pixels outside the crop, so you shouldn't need to have the larger canvas. Of course you could just as easily build the extend canvas into you Action.


The reason your file balloons up to 160MB is primarily down to resolution being so high at 1200ppi so if full size is 1:1 about A7 size that's double and double again at 300ppi so equivalent to A3 at 300ppi. If you can make sure the background has no stray pixels, so either transparent or 255 in all channels then LZW compressed TIFF will work well..

Thank you for the help and action tip. I made an Action that will increase the canvas size and drop in a copy & paste scale. All I have to do 1st is open my file then run the action. So far so good.

I still do not know what the difference is between dragging & dropping the scale onto the image vs copying & pasting it. The former does not work - I have to copy & paste to make it work.

 

[Stumped]

It's probably better to create a clip mask to erase what you want/don't want. It's far easier to go back and change things that way.

Curious - what is a clip mask??

 

[RoyReed]

Curious - what is a clip mask??

A clip mask in Photoshop uses the content and transparency of a bottom base layer to control the visibility of one or more layers above it. There are lots of tutorials on YouTube.

 

[Stumped]

I use a customised Workspace in Photoshop CC2026. But you can access the Actions Panel from the Window dropdown of the top Menu bar, in any Workspace .

question - the action I made - when I made it and used it , it worked. This is it: I open a file. And run the action which enlarges the canvas and brings in a file from another location. I thought it worked as intended, but not. I made the action of copying & pasting the top layer gauge after the canvas enlarge, but it only puts the file there if I have it already copied and on the clipboard, which I have to manually do every time I want to run the action.

Is there a way to get the "paste gauge file" as part of the action? I cant seem to figure that out. Maybe one is not allowed to bring in an outside file as part of the action?? Make sense? This is what it look like.

 

[UtahLlama]

In the Actions pane start with the document you want to paste into.
You can record :
File Open , navigate to specific file (the file you want to copy from), select All, copy,
(click back on the original document) Select previous document
Paste
This will work unless you rename or move the the document you want to copy from.
I think you could record multiple actions on the 2nd file.

Looking at your Action, you are scaling 105% and adding a very specific background color, so you'll rely on consistent pixel dimensions and background color in your start file. My action list was assuming you were pasting into the guide file which is always the same pixel dimensions and background. You might want to consider setting new fixed pixel dimensions in Canvas size rather than percentage, or even ad some layer manipulation to the end of the Action eg duplicate the Background Layer, then fill the Background layer with your specific RGB mix, then you should end up with a flat background and 2 layers above, one for your original image and one for you gauge. Now you can easily move content and apply Blend modes.

 

[Stumped]

In the Actions pane start with the document you want to paste into.
You can record :
File Open , navigate to specific file (the file you want to copy from), select All, copy,
(click back on the original document) Select previous document
Paste
This will work unless you rename or move the the document you want to copy from.
I think you could record multiple actions on the 2nd file.

Looking at your Action, you are scaling 105% and adding a very specific background color, so you'll rely on consistent pixel dimensions and background color in your start file. My action list was assuming you were pasting into the guide file which is always the same pixel dimensions and background. You might want to consider setting new fixed pixel dimensions in Canvas size rather than percentage, or even ad some layer manipulation to the end of the Action eg duplicate the Background Layer, then fill the Background layer with your specific RGB mix, then you should end up with a flat background and 2 layers above, one for your original image and one for you gauge. Now you can easily move content and apply Blend modes.

I tried agin - it doesn't seem to like what I doing unless a have the guage already copied to the clipboard. I get the error message



Not sure what im going wrong.

I created the increase canvas size action, then added the copy & paste to it. But the copy & paste only works as stated, if I have it on the clipboard...

 

[UtahLlama]

You need to start recording on the file you want to paste into.
Menu Bar >File Open
navigate and open to the file that you want to copy from.
Make your selection
Copy
click on the image you want to paste into (click on the tab or window)
Paste
stop recording

If you play this action on a different start file it will Paste the same selection from the same file you opened with File Open.

Think you are failing at Paste because you haven't done the bits before Copy and you don't have anything on your clipboard?

 

[Stumped]

If you play this action on a different start file it will Paste the same selection from the same file you opened with File Open.

Think you are failing at Paste because you haven't done the bits before Copy and you don't have anything on your clipboard?

Ok. I think I have it now. I deleted the old action and took it form the top. Not sure what I was doing wrong before. Seems to be all good now and I tried it one a few different subjects. I think before I was doing the increase canvas size three maybe adding the copy&paste separate as an add on??

Seems good now. Tks!