Smart use of smart collections

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dfawkes

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Hi.

I've been using LR for a couple of years, mostly working with folders which until recently satisfied my needs as a low volume shooter. My YYYYMMDD folder structure has served me well where I mentally worked on things by date, but now I shoot more volume and variety, shots on a particular date don't neccesarily 'go' together and so this crude organisational approach doesn't work so well now. I'm also aware that the use of collections brings a lot more organisation and power and naturally want to go down this route anyway.

However, I want to rely entirely on smart collections rather than regular collections, mostly because these are based on metadata and therefore easy to recreate (rather than being arbitrary), and also to enforce proper organisation (rather than just chucking images into collections).

Does anyone have a good way of using smart collections to organise their catalogs? I'm mostly concerned about sensible use of metadata to create the smart collection in the first place. I was thinking there are a few approaches:

- use "in folder" criteria (bad!) or "taken date between" to create smart collections of particular shoots. This would be fairly analagous to using the folder view, and so wouldn't really give me much benefit (although I wouldn't have to move folders under parents to group them), and I'd still have the problem of mixed up photos from a shoot (i.e. it may have been taken on that date, but the data isn't the attribute I'm interested in).

- use collection keywords (e.g. Collection:Scotland trip 2''9"). This seems a bit like using dumb collections, but using keywords (rather than LR's database) to make the collections persistent. I can see this approach working quite well, but it seems clunky and not in the spirit of smart collections! I also might want to switch off those keywords when exporting, etc.

- use "proper" keywords - keyword the images appropriately, and create smart collections from those. This might require heavy keywording and there's the possibility of proliferration of images into collections I don't want them in through poor use of keywording. Sloppiness would completely destory this whole approach, and I don't want to have to design and plan this in huge amounts of detail to avoid that happening.

- use a combination of metadata and keywords to provide better control over what images appear where (so e.g. "date taken=2''9" and "country=Scotland"). I'm presuming this is the 'correct' approach, but there's also the possibility that you might want to have some collections by date ("Scotland 2''9"), whereas others ignore date ("All abstract"), meaning that the criteria for the collections is variable and difficult to track (so you might need to check and change the criteria often to make sure images appear as you expect - with the possibility of images falling between collections).

Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way of organising using smart collections? I've heard much that says "use them" but no sugggestion on how to use them and provide a consistent approach to using them.

Whilst on the subject, there's a few things that bother me about collections that I thought I'd list in case anyone has a workaround for them (or if I'm using them wrong):

- no stacks (seems a common complaint)

- in regular collections, flags are local. I like how they are global in smart collections (my preferred way, like folders), but sometimes I imagine I want to have my cake and eat it - typically I flag/reject to indicate if the image is worthy of further consideration, I do this in the folder view currently, but the flag doesn't end up in the collection. So I'll use a smart collection for global flags (to indicate don't worry about this photo in any collection), but then might want to use local flags later when refining images for a particular use. I'm aware I could use ratings to help here, I haven't quite got my ratings approach sussed (typically a flag and no rating would be snapshot, flag and one star would be average shot, two stars good shot, etc). Maybe I should move all my ratings up by one such that anything without a rating should not be used at all.

- smart collections aren't hierarchical, major issue IMO. If I create a "Full shoot" smart collection, I would then expect to define a smart collection on that collection such that I can have sub-collections for "work still to do", "best shots", etc. I could use regular collections within the collection set for this, but they don't dynamically update / are not persisent outside of LR. I find I have to recreate the top level smart collection criteria in every sub-collection also (and you can't copy and paste smart collections, annoying). Worse, if I change the criteria in the top level, I then need to remember to change the criteria in all sub-collections otherwise they are out of sync. This seems so obvious to me I can't believe LR doesn't support it (it almost does with the "in collection" criteria, but that only applies to regular collections?).

If anyone has any suggestions on how best to use smart collections to move away from folders, but allows me to work in a similar-ish way but with better organisation I'd very much appreciate it. (I know I can come up with a system that will work for me, but I can't imagine I'm the first to wonder this and would prefer to tap into the extensive knowledge and experience of others to implement the best practice!).

Thanks in advance.
 
Hi John.

Yep, I had a look at that and thought it was very interesting - I downloaded it and had a play, and thought I would get some use out of it with a few tweaks.

I think the crux of my question may be different though - it's about organising the input and the output, rather than managing the workflow itself (though that's also part of my question, particularly where I may have different collections and different points through the workflow).

So I guess my question is about how best to arrive at the "'.'' Current work" collection, and then what happens with "5.'1 Best". I presume at the outset you would add all your current imports to your Current Work collection (from Current Import or Folders), and I guess given it's just a container for the rest of the workflow it doesn't have much context outside of that so that's no biggie.

However, when you get down to "5.'1 Best" - what happens then? Do you add those to a dumb collection (which, from reading your posts, I'm guessing not), and if not how do you then extract that out of your workflow into an "archive" smart collection that isn't based on that initial "current work" dumb collection?

Edit: sorry if my intial comment came across as dismissive John, your workflow smart collections are definitely something I'm interested at looking at going forward, it's just I'm trying to deal with the problem of organisation of everything first before then looking at better organising my workflow for a particular collection.
 
No, didn't take it as dismissive. It's very much intended for tweaking and giving ideas - those who can't see that is true are probably beyond help! You're asking the right questions.

'.'' Current Work is best used fluidly, because all the other smart collections are effectively slicing and dicing whatever is in a dumb collection called "Current Work". Imagine two sets of pictures shot over the weekend. On Saturday I put a fresh set of pictures into Current Work, but on Sunday I wanted to run through another set of images. So I simply renamed '.'' Current Work to "Photographers demo" and made Sunday's pictures "'.'' Current Work". One could perhaps use coloured labels in a similar way, but naming and renaming collections doesn't take long.

As for 5.'1 Best, I don't really use it much - in practice, I chop and change it depending on what the pictures are for. The ratings stay with the images for ever marking up that job's best shots .

John
 
Some time back I put this better, but I couldn't find the thread:

Flags are temporary / subjective / local / not for long term markup of images
Ratings are long term evaluations / almost objective or meaningful to others / global / permanent
Labels are whatever you want / totally subjective / global / permanent or temporary
 
Thanks John. I saw that post yesterday (when researching this problem!) and it certainly rings true; I think I need to adjust my approach to flags and ratings anyway (just did what felt natural with LR1).

So yep, I get what you're saying about "Current Work" so that's all good,

The bit I'm missing is what happens with longer term storage. I presumed "5.'1 Best" would be considered the output from your workflow, but appreciate this could come at any point. It's your final sentence that interests me most - ultimately my end goal is to get my images processed, keyworded and rated so I can go back to them in the future. So once you've got them rated as the job's best shots, what do you use as the container for that "job"?

I might not be explaining myself very well here! I'm trying to get to what the endgoal of the workflow is.

Explaining what I do at the moment in Folder view, I work on a particular day at a time, flagging, deleting, processing, rating, keywording within that folder until I consider that folder complete (as I say, you're workflow collections may help me be more rigourous and structured here). After all of that my folder is "finished". I now move it to an "archive" folder along with all the other shots I've "finished" with. So I have a folder structure like:

Archive
2''7
2''8
2''9
2''9-'5-Lindisfarne
2''9-'9-Scotland
2''9-'9-11
2''9-'9-12
...

I then use 2''9-'9-Scotland (with view subfolders on) to see my images from my Scotland trip.

What I would like to have is (smart) collections achieving this instead, but with a similar structure (but also giving me the option of creating alternate views, eg. organising by location then date instead).

So to get the point, what's the best thing to do once I've gone through the workflow and arrive at "5.'1 Best work" (or whatever point you say I'm happy with these)? Do I create a dumb collection called 2''9-'9-Scotland in the collection set 2''9? Or do I create a smart collection where "date taken=2''9-'9" and "location=Scotland" and rating>="*")? Once I have the smart collection I can then slice and dice it differently based on other criteria by using filters or a further smart collection.

I'm presuming that the images don't live in your workflow smart collections forever, so how do you organise them when "finished"?
 
"I'm presuming that the images don't live in your workflow smart collections forever, so how do you organise them when "finished"? "

Yes, that's right. As far as folders are concerned, the files stay where they always were in date-based subfolders, each within a sequentially-numbered DVD-sized parent folder. Peter Krogh calls this a "bucket system". For me folders are only for storage, backup and reconstruction - there's nothing organisational other than short text in the folder name.

Most of the organisation is through smart collections that are subject-driven. So yesterday I shot some pictures at Speakers Corner, a 2'+ year long project. I've a collection set for this, with a main SC that looks for Speakers Corner as a keyword. Other SCs reflect particular uses - so one looks for Speakers Corner, Islam, Preachers as keywords. Another set is called Trips and has a SC looking for Country doesn't contain England. Within that, I've added SCs as and when needed. I go to the Lake District a lot, so there's a Lake District set, with smart and dumb collections inside. One might be Borrowdale, and I'd use the filter panel if I need to split by year. If I'm always splitting by year, then I'll probably create a SC. Overall, I'm building these structures as and when I know that I need them, and making sure that my metadata input facilitates this.

John
 
Thanks John.

I suppose the conclusion is "whatever works best for you depending on what you need" - which is always the case :)

I think I'll start with creating SCs using particular keywords & metadata, and then create alternate sets for different uses (truth is most of my images, at this stage, don't have a use/project). I'll see how I get on.

I don't suppose you've found a workaround for smart collections in smart collections? When I downloaded your SCs, I noted that it would be particularly useful if the "Current work" could be a smart collection rather than a dumb collection. Hopefully something we can look forward to in future versions of LR.

Thanks again.
 
"I suppose the conclusion is "whatever works best for you depending on what you need" - which is always the case"

Although "different strokes for different folks" can easily be a smokescreen for poor working practices....

No workaround for SCs. I don't think one can make a SC refer to another's name as in "Collection Name / Contains Words / MySmartCollection". I do my best to encourage Adobe to give smart collections the love they deserve....

John
 
John
I shouldn't have presumed to impose on your time, lazy and greedy I was. I am now in the process of re- creating your Smart collection workflow for 3beta with a few adjustments to fit my process. When I'm done, if anyone wants it, I'll email. So far it's working great and will be very helpful here. Thanks so much for the outline and your initial work. The one smart collection that is a mystery is the Final Review-Best, what is that for and what are the settings used?
Jonathan
 
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