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smart collection not working as planned

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Reddwarf4ever

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  1. Windows 10
Hello
I am trying to set up a smart collection to look for the Non presence of a keyword, `Dasha` in photos that have keywords under a parent keyword Russia.

i know i am not using the correct terminology, but the parent keyword russia has 10 other keywords `attached` to it, so i want to look for photos in the parent keyword russia that do not have dasha as a keyword. trying to explain this the best i can.

this doesnt work

NEW Edit Smart Collection 2022-09-15 01.43.06.jpg
 
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Your Smart Collection looks correct other than having a "2" at the end of Russia.

What is it showing that it shouldn't or not showing that it should?

Many times there are other keywords that are out of mind that trip up Smart Collections. For example, "Dashall", or "Russian Ballet" (assuming you take off the "2" in your SC).
 

Reddwarf4ever

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Sorry the parent keyword is Russia2, it gives a result of Zero, there are 1100 photos within the parent keyword Russia2, Dasha won’t be in any other parent keyword ‘sets’ thanks
 
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So a bit of debugging is called for. First remove the "Dasha" rule and see if the "Russia2" images show up. If they do, then the problem is with the "Dasha" rule. In this case, take a real good look at the "Dasha" keyword. Does it have an extra space at the end? Maybe clear the name and retype it in the KW editor. If that doesn't work, remove the "russia2" rule and change the operator on the "Dasha" rule to "contains" rather than "Doesn't contain" to see if it finds your "dasha" images. If it does then we know that the "dasha" does find that KW. Change "Dasha" rule back to doesn't contain and see if any "dasha" images are include. If none are then put back the "Russia" rule and see what happens.

Anyway, with just two rules it's not too difficult to do this sort of debugging. On the other hand I have some SC's with two a dozen rules that I sometimes have to debug in this manner.
 

Reddwarf4ever

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Well, most of the problem was Russia2 was actually Russian2, also i used match and doesnt match, now works perfectly, i had accidently added my keyword to photos instead of Dasha, so this allowed me to find and correct them

Thanks for the advice, sent me on the right track

Are explicit keywords one assigned directly with face rectangles ? i did some research but wasnt clear
dasha.jpg
 
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An explicit KW may or may not be related to a Face Region. Explicit KW's are those directly attached to an image. They show up in the Keyword list with a check mark when the image is selected. Note that if multiple images are selected and some have a certrain KW and some don't have that KW, you get a minus sign instead of a check mark.

Implicit KW's are all the parents of Explict keywords.

For example, if you assign "Dasha" to a photo it is an Explict KW and Russia is an implicit KW as would any parents above Russia.

However, if you make both Russia and Dasha both explicit by assigning both to an image then the fact that Russia is also an implicit KW of Dasha is irrelevent.
 

Reddwarf4ever

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Still not 100% but your explanation was good, so if I create a keyword and tick the person box, does that make it explicit ? Because the only way Lightroom Classic would know the keyword is a person, is a face rectangle or where it has the person radio button ticked,
So if I wanted to filter for a keyword and Duffy know if it was explicit or implicit, what should I search for ? I’m not trying to be thick, it’s just the terminology
Thank you
 
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What makes a KW "explicit" is that it is directly attached to an image. It does not matter if that keyword has the "person" checkbox checked or not. Keyword "Bridge" is an explicit KW if it is directly assigned to an image. Being implicit or explicit is not an attribute of the keyword itself but rather is a term used for a KW in relation to an image. So, for example keyword "Oregon" may be explicitly assigned to image 1. But then if image 2 has KW Portland explicitly assigned then "Oregon" (Portland's parent Keyword) would be an implicit KW for image 2 at the same time as being an explicit KW for the image 1.

A KW with the "person" box checked is still just a KW. If the Person box is checked though that keyword can (not "must", but "can") refer to a face region in an image rather than the entire image. In addition, KW's with the Person box checked will be the only KW's suggested by LR's Face Detection algorithyms. But either way, Person type KW are still just a KW's.

The result of useing face recognition or manually identifying a face in an image is that a keyword with the "person" checkbox checked will be explicitly assinged to the image. If such a keyword does not already exist with the "person" check box checked it will create such a keyword first. If such a keyword already exists it will assgn that image to that Keyword.

When you search images for a KW, you'll get all images that have the searched for KW associated with that image either implicitly or explicitly regardless of if they are people KW's or not. Some plugins let you specify if you want just implicit or just explicit or both.

A strange thing is that you can have a keyword that has nothing to do with people (say KW "California") and you can check the "person" check box on that KW. Then you can take an image of a map of the US and put a "face region" rectangle around California on the image and it will create a face region for it. Of course face recognition will never match another "face" to it as it doesn't have facial features.
 
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