Smart Collection for people

[BMC2611]

Can anyone tell me how to create a Smart Collection based on people's names?

If I create one with Keywords > contains all > John Smith (for example), it includes any photo that has a John in it and a Smith in it.

What I want is for it to include only photos of John Smith specifically.

I hope this makes sense. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

in this case use two lines, and select that both lines must be true:
Keywords contains word John
Keywords contains word Smith

The only limitation is that this will also show images with John Jones and Mary Smith in one and the same photo.

 

[BMC2611]

Thanks for the reply Johan, but this doesn't solve the problem.

Along with photos of John Smith, the collection will still include photos that contain both John Jones and Jane Smith (for example).

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Thanks for the reply Johan, but this doesn't solve the problem.

Along with photos of John Smith, the collection will still include photos that contain both John Jones and Jane Smith (for example).

Yes, I know that and that's what I said, didn't I? I said: "The only limitation is that this will also show images with John Jones and Mary Smith in one and the same photo." If you do have photos like this, there is only one solution unfortunately. Edit the keyword John Smith (and all the other people keywords) and add a (non-exporting) synonym 'JohnSmith'. Then you can setup your smart collection so it searches on these synonyms. This has been discussed at length in this forum some time ago, and nobody knows a simpler solution.

 

[BMC2611]

How is your first suggestion of creating two lines any different to having Keywords > contains all?

Thanks for the synonym suggestion, I'll give that a try. Not sure why you didn't just explain that clearly in your first reply...

 

[Jim Wilde]

"Contains All" should work (well, it certainly does for me)....if you are getting other images in the smart collection, you need to examine their keywords carefully. Perhaps post a screenshot of the Keywording panel (set to Keywords & Containing Keywords) for an image which appears in the results of the SC, but which you think shouldn't.

 

[johnbeardy]

If you have two lines of keyword, make Match = "all", then "Keywords contains word John" and "Keywords contains word Smith" will only return "John Smith" and "Smith John".

I wouldn't use synonyns or "fake metadata" for this. You'll just find them in files you export or find some other problem somewhere down the line.

 

[BMC2611]

"Contains All" should work (well, it certainly does for me)....if you are getting other images in the smart collection, you need to examine their keywords carefully. Perhaps post a screenshot of the Keywording panel (set to Keywords & Containing Keywords) for an image which appears in the results of the SC, but which you think shouldn't.

'Contains All' does include the photos I want - i.e. those of John Smith. But it also includes images that contain both John Jones and Jane Smith, for example.

I understand why it does this as the image does contain the keywords John and Smith. But I want to include only "John Smith"!

 

[BMC2611]

If you have two lines of keyword, make Match = "all", then "Keywords contains word John" and "Keywords contains word Smith" will only return "John Smith" and "Smith John".

I wouldn't use synonyns or "fake metadata" for this. You'll just find them in files you export or find some other problem somewhere down the line.

Jim, I have tried the two lines and this doesn't seem to work.

The SC will still include images that contain both John Jones and Jane Smith, for example. I only want images of John Smith.

 

[johnbeardy]

Match should be set to "all"

 

[BMC2611]

Match should be set to "all"

It is set to "All", but it will still include images that have both a John and a Smith in, that aren't John Smith.

 

[Jim Wilde]

'Contains All' does include the photos I want - i.e. those of John Smith. But it also includes images that contain both John Jones and Jane Smith, for example.

I understand why it does this as the image does contain the keywords John and Smith. But I want to include only "John Smith"!

As I said, it works for me (on both Windows and OSX), so let's have a look at a screenshot.

I have 3 images, one contains only one keyword "John Smith", one contains only "Jane Smith", the other contains only "John Jones". A smart collection>Contains All>John Smith returns only the one image containing the John Smith keyword.

 

[tspear]

It is set to "All", but it will still include images that have both a John and a Smith in, that aren't John Smith.

This has been discussed many times on here. There are a few basic solutions. Pick one:

• Create a synonym as Johan stated and search for synonym
• Use underscores in your key words instead of spaces
• Clean up the results manually after (usually when exporting or to a static collection)
  
• Change your friends so they do not overlap names

The last possible option is convince Adobe to change the smart collection system (Good luck, this has been a request for a long time)

 

[BMC2611]

As I said, it works for me (on both Windows and OSX), so let's have a look at a screenshot.

I have 3 images, one contains only one keyword "John Smith", one contains only "Jane Smith", the other contains only "John Jones". A smart collection>Contains All>John Smith returns only the one image containing the John Smith keyword.

Jim, what you have done is fine. But if you had an image that contained John Jones and Jane Smith that would be included in the collection. I want a collection with only John Smith.

 

[BMC2611]

This has been discussed many times on here. There are a few basic solutions. Pick one:

• Create a synonym as Johan stated and search for synonym
• Use underscores in your key words instead of spaces
• Clean up the results manually after (usually when exporting or to a static collection)
  
• Change your friends so they do not overlap names

The last possible option is convince Adobe to change the smart collection system (Good luck, this has been a request for a long time)

Thanks for the advice, I understand the solutions now.

I know I could also just filter by keyword but that seems too much effort!

 

[johnbeardy]

It is set to "All", but it will still include images that have both a John and a Smith in, that aren't John Smith.

No it won't. Match set to All, and two keyword criterion lines - one set to contains John, the other contains Smith.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

No it won't. Match set to All, and two keyword criterion lines - one set to contains John, the other contains Smith.

John,
This has been discussed at length. If your smart collection must match two lines, one set for John and one for Smith, you'll get only photos that contain both 'John' and 'Smith'. That is correct. Unfortunately however, that means you will also get photos of the good friends John Jones and Mary Smith together on their sailing trip. You can't add a third line that excludes 'Mary' either, because that means you won't get any of the wedding pictures of John and Mary Smith. There simply is no way around this, except make keywords that are unique through an underscore, or (more elegant in my opinion) use unique synonyms.

 

[BMC2611]

No it won't. Match set to All, and two keyword criterion lines - one set to contains John, the other contains Smith.

John, I have uploaded two screen shots. The first shows the two lines as you have suggested. The second shows that an image which has the keywords John Jones and Jane Smith is included in the Smart Collection, as one would expect as the two criterion are met.

The synonym suggestion sounds best to me.

 

[johnbeardy]

OK, I see! Personally, I never use synonyms except for the purpose for which they intended. It's extra work, and it will bite you in the long run.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

OK, I see! Personally, I never use synonyms except for the purpose for which they intended. It's extra work, and it will bite you in the long run.

I see absolutely no reason why this would bite you in the long run.

 

[johnbeardy]

All fake metadata eventually causes some kind of problem. Short term it can turn up in exported files, long term when you migrate to whatever app you use after Lightroom.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

All fake metadata eventually causes some kind of problem. Short term it can turn up in exported files, long term when you migrate to whatever app you use after Lightroom.

That is why I suggest to use non-exporting synonyms. Yes, if you would ever migrate to an alternative for Lightroom, that may (or may not) cause a problem. So in that case you simply delete the synonym from the keyword before you do so. A small price to pay for having a system right now that actually works, if you ask me.

 

[johnbeardy]

So people now have to remember to set those keywords to non-exporting? Then later they wonder why the keyword "John Smith" isn't exported to Flickr or whatever? They figure that out - and then find fake metadata goes along for the ride too? Apart from introducing unpredictable ways to waste time and energy, there was a good example of my "break the rules and it'll bite you in the end" in exactly this area. IIRC it was back in Lr3 when Lr ignored the do-not-export flag, and it took months to for Adobe to resolve the issue. I recall one client had used non-exporting keywords to record stock agency submissions and went ballistic when he found he was submitting photos to Alamy with Getty, Corbis etc in the keywords. Not good.

Adobe's implementation of search criteria is distinctly second-rate, and it would be great to search for the exact words "John Smith". But there are plenty of other ways in which Lr can't do things we'd probably all want. Rather than following bad practice, we find ways around or accept we can't do something exactly as we want.

In this case the user can simply double click the keyword to find John Smith. I've not tried this (ridiculous) idea, but if a smart collection is really needed, the user can add a keywords doesn't contain "a b c d...." (ie all the letters not in "John Smith") or some variation on that suggestion.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I can't check this right now as I'm typing this on my iPad, but as far as I know, you can setup the keyword in such a way that the keyword itself will be exported, and the synonym will not be exported. That's exactly why I think this is a more elegant solution than using an underscore in the keyword itself.

Of course, this would all be irrelevant if Adobe fixed this bug where you can create keyword phrases, but you can't use them in smart collections.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

OK, I'm back behind my Macintosh now. Here's what I mean. The keyword 'John Beardsworth' will be included if you export images or use a plugin to publish them, but the synonym 'JohnBeardsworth' won't be included in any exported file.