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Setting white balance

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David PZ

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Dec 1, 2015
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Lightroom Experience
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Lightroom Version
5.x
Thought I would share this approach which I believe is valid. Perhaps many of you are doing it this way already. In most cases, I can't find a spot that has the same RGB values. So I do my best to find one that has these values as close as possible and click on it to get a new balance. I try again and the 2nd time it's always easier. In most cases, after a few tries, I always find a point that's neutral and get the correct white balance. Sometimes it could be time-consuming to find the perfect point, then I just settle for two readings identical, with the 3rd off by 0.1%, close enough.
 
For those that don't know, tint, and what we call white balance, are intimately related.
The "White balance" slider, as defined in Lightroom, alters colour along an axis of blue-yellow hues.
The "Tint" slider, alters colour along an axis of green-magenta hues.
These two axes are at right angles to each other.
Theoretically, where the two axes intersect a perfectly neutral tone will be found.
The dropper tool will adjust hues along both axes as appropriate.
However, the sliders, for obvious reasons, will only alter hues along a single axis as defined above.

A lot of Lightroom users completely ignore the "Tint" slider - after all the slider immediately above is actually called "White balance"!
However, even if one can perfectly manipulate the "White balance" slider ignoring the "Tint" slider means that a true neutral white balance may be unattainable.

Actually, the 'White Balance' is both sliders together, for the reason you mentioned. You cannot obtain perfectly neutral colors with only one slider. You need both. The yellow/blue slider is called 'Temperature'.
 
that was the point I was trying to make...:)

I know, but by saying that the top slider is called 'White Balance', you possibly created some confusion. That slider is called 'Temperature'.
 
Tony,

Interesting, I have a lot to learn.
But one question I have specific to Lr. You said the order is not important. I thought Lr applies the edits in a specific order, as such if you do your editing out of order you may have more rework.
Is this correct?


Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk
This is ambiguous. Excluding local adjustments, LR maintains a 'current command set', it matters not a jot what order you do your edits in, LR simply updates its current command set. LR then applies that command set using its own (internal) order. From LR's perspective your edit order does not matter, nor does it matter how many times you change a setting, or what order you put your edits in or even if you come back and tweak a setting a second time with other edits in-between (as there is only one current command set); from your perspective you might be making life more difficult.

Local adjustments probably behave differently and the order might matter, I have never experimented seriously.
 
Last edited:
This is ambiguous. LR maintains a 'current command set', it matters not a jot what order you do your edits in, LR simply updates its current command set. LR then applies that command set using its own (internal) order. From LR's perspective your edit order does not matter, nor does it matter how many times you change a setting, or what order you put your edits in or even if you come back and tweak a setting a second time with other edits in-between (as there is only one current command set); from your perspective you might be making life more difficult.
Correct!

Tony Jay
 
This is ambiguous. Excluding local adjustments, LR maintains a 'current command set', it matters not a jot what order you do your edits in, LR simply updates its current command set. LR then applies that command set using its own (internal) order. From LR's perspective your edit order does not matter, nor does it matter how many times you change a setting, or what order you put your edits in or even if you come back and tweak a setting a second time with other edits in-between (as there is only one current command set); from your perspective you might be making life more difficult.

Local adjustments probably behave differently and the order might matter, I have never experimented seriously.
How is it ambiguous?
If you the tone curve, then the black amd whites, then the exposure, you likely will have to rework the black and whites followed by the tone curve.
As you re-stated Lr does not care.

Tim

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk
 
How is it ambiguous?
If you the tone curve, then the black amd whites, then the exposure, you likely will have to rework the black and whites followed by the tone curve.
As you re-stated Lr does not care.

Tim

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk

It is ambiguous because there are two perspectives to the answer, I separated the two with a semicolon in my reply as I covered both (as did you).

Is there an answer re local adjustments (and grads)?
 
It is ambiguous because there are two perspectives to the answer, I separated the two with a semicolon in my reply as I covered both (as did you).

Is there an answer re local adjustments (and grads)?
My test was using white adjustments and exposure. Adobe seems to processes everything in the same order. Local is just applied locally (could not resist).

Tim
 
My test was using white adjustments and exposure. Adobe seems to processes everything in the same order. Local is just applied locally (could not resist).

Tim

That does not answer the question about local adjustments (and I have not experimented). There are two possible algorithms I'll call them A and B.
Algorithm A - steps are not constrained by the output range except on display.
Algorithm B - steps are constrained by the allowed range

So, lets set the allowed range to 0..255. Lets start at 100, luminance say.
Lets create four local adjustments that happen to cover that pixel. These four are Step S1 - add 100; S2 add 100, S3 subtract 100, S4 subtract 100.

Algorithm A: S1, 100+100=200 (display 200), S2 200+100=300 (internal is 300, display is 255), S3 300-100=200 (display 200), S4 200-100=100 (display 100)
Algorithm B: S1, 100+100=200 (display 200), S2 200+100=255 (limit reached, display 255 too), S3 255-100=155 (display 155), S4 155-100=55 (display 55).

Now, lets do it in this order, S1, S3, S2, S4. Ie change the order the overlays are applied.
Both algorithms remain in range, the display is 100, 200, 100, 200, 100.
You will notice that if LR uses algorithm A, then the order does not matter, if it uses algorithm B, then the order does matter.

I don't know which of the two LR uses.
 
Here are examples

On the first picture I think the tree trunk has a yellow cast to it. It should be white. White is a neutral color unless it has a cast to it. I am not clicking on a white in the image, I am clicking on what should be white.
Image 2 is after I have clicked on the tree trunk in image 1. The numbers are much closer together. If I want I can then go to the sliders and adjust the blue and check the WB again. In actuallity the numbers should all be the same, this one needs a tad more blue to make totally neutral, which I can adjust with the sliders.
In addition if you go to Custom on the same row as the eyedropper, if your images are RAW you can go to Auto. 90% of the time it will fix your white balance.
White Bal 1.jpg
White Bal 2.jpg
White Bal 2.jpg
White Bal 2.jpg
White Bal 1.jpg White Bal 2.jpg
White Bal 2.jpg
 
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