Seeking workflow advice from experienced users

[Nomad]

I've been looking at LR as a potential solution to my company's changing photo management needs. I'm trying to understand some key concepts about LR, and I'm stuck on a few things. I would appreciate some advice from experienced LR users on how (or if) I can use LR to improve our situation and workflow.

I work with photography, but I'm not a photographer. I work for a small travel company (web design & maintenance). We rent vacation homes in many countries. I was recently put in charge of managing my company's rapidly growing photo collection (someone else used to do this). Some of the oldest photos go back almost 1' years. The photos come from a variety of professional and amateur photographers. The photos arrive in a variety of formats: historically tif and/or jpg, increasingly raw or DNG. We receive the photos via CD, email, ftp, or website download. Occasionally, we have to work with scanned prints, negatives, or photos scanned from magazine articles. We also license a small amount of royalty-free stock photos when we need something we don't have.

We are a Mac-based office. I'm relatively computer savvy, pretty fluent in Photoshop, and less so in Bridge. My co-workers have typical office level computer skills. They don't enjoy talking about, or learning how to use, new software. Although I'm the primary user, editor, and organizer of the photos, I need to collaborate with my co-workers on limited aspects of the photo management process. One complication is that we work in different offices.

Our existing photo management process (without LR):
1. Anyone at the main office who receives new photos (regardless of format, source, etc.) copies them to the "Photos" partition of the main server into a folder named 'Inbox'. The protocol is to create a subfolder identifying the source of the photos, who created the folder, and when.

2. I log in to the main server remotely, and transfer the new photos from the Inbox to the company's "Photo Drive", an external drive that's connected to my computer. If the transfer is huge (not uncommon), I have to ask someone at the office to send me the original CDs via snail mail. I maintain a parallel structure on my 'Photo Drive' to the one on the main server, including the 'Inbox'. Both "Inboxes" (main office and mine) serve one purpose - a repository to dump all incoming photos until they are processed. Once I have copies of the new photos from the main office, I move the folder on the main office server from "Inbox" to a "Processing" folder, which tells everyone at the office that I've retrieved copies of the new photos and I'm working on them. The photo drive at my location is also backed up daily to a separate drive.

3. As I get time to work on new images, I assign each new image a unique catalogue name (using a sequential system) and move it to its appropriate final destination on the photo drive. Then, as needed, I edit, crop, and save one or more versions of the image depending on how the image is being used. Our typical uses for an image have been increasing. Currently, images that are "selected" are typically used as follows:

• web gallery (JPGs - always resized to a common fixed pixel height)
• slideshow presentations (a different crop and dimensions for widescreen presentation)
• another web format that uses a 'square' crop
• hi-res TIFs for print
• misc. other uses, such as emailing individual photos to clients, or creating custom galleries on the fly.

An existing folder based organization system is already in place. Photos are currently organized as follows:

PHOTO DRIVE (Root Level)

Property Photos (a top level folder containing all photos of our rental properties)

Country Name (a subfolder for each country we work in)

Region Name (a subfolder for each region within the country)

Property Name (a subfolder for each of our properties in the region)

Image Filename (a sub folder for each unique Photo, e.g. Exterior 1, Exterior 2, Bedroom 1...)

This subfolder's contents typically include:

• Source file with original name, untouched (could be raw, tif or jpg)
• PSD file new catalogue name (source file saved as a PSD 'master file', non-destructively edited)
• Any final versions derived from the PSD 'master file' (web gallery jpg, hi-res tif, etc.)

Stock Photos (the only other top-level folder)

uses similar structure as above, but this folder contains anything that isn't specifically a 'property' photo. There are subfolders for 'people', 'landscapes', 'food', etc. that -- general images we can use in brochures, articles, etc.
​

QUESTIONS ABOUT COLLABORATING ON METADATA:
I am responsible for cataloguing, renaming, and organizing all photos. I need the office staff to assign identifying words like "Bedroom #2" or "2nd Floor balcony" to each photo. I also need them to annotate which images they want me edit and upload to the web gallery. New gallery photos are expected to go online asap. Some new photos may need to be compared with existing web gallery photos to determine if a new image will be replacing a current one, or simply be an addition to an existing gallery.

Is there an easy way for the office to have something like a "virtual" catalogue that allows the office to see all of the photos and perform limited updates to metadata that I could then apply to the actual catalogue/images? No one at the office will ever be performing edits to images. Their only tasks will involve reviewing images and providing limited information for metadata. I am concerned about having to move entire batches of files back and forth every time I need them to make minor metadata changes. Is there a way (with raw / DNG images) to move only the changed XMP sidecar files back and forth (without the images)? If so, is there a solution for TIFs and JPGs, since they don't have XMP sidecars? I just received 2 CDs from a photographer with nearly 1'' 35mb TIFs. Moving those back and forth remotely could take hours, when all I need is one or two changes to the Metadata for each photo. Are there other solutions/suggestions?

QUESTIONS ABOUT EXISTING (FOLDER-BASED) CATALOGUING SYSTEM
Although there is a logic to the existing hierarchical system, I understand that folder-based systems can be considered limiting in some ways. I'm speaking about the physical storage of the actual photo files (source files, PSDs, and various versions). One problem I notice with our current system: LR says I cannot create stacks of images that are in different folders. Does this mean that all images in a catalogue must be kept at the root level of a single folder on order to use stacking? I'm thinking of this example: Assume that several photos have been taken of "Bedroom # 1" over the years. Some came in via 2 CDs in 2''4, some more via email in 2''5, and another via CD in 2''6. One of the photos from 2''4 and another from 2''5 are currently being used on the web gallery. I want to be able to create a stack of all "Bedroom #1" photos to simplify viewing and the selection process. Is there a way to do this using the existing catalogue structure? If not, is there another way I should be thinking about this?

FINALLY...
I'm a little confused about importing. If all of the photos are going to reside on the Photo Drive, when I create a new catalog with LR, do I import and copy the files somewhere, or just leave them in place and refer to them? Similarly, does the main office need to maintain a duplicate copy of my catalog that we have to keep in synch or is there another approach?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

 

[Braders]

Hang in there Nomad

i think everyone is trying to digest and de-construct your post, or are hanging off it due to its complexity.

Don't want to give you bad advise....

Someone will be here soon.

 

[Brad Snyder]

I'm thinking, "Geez, I really gotta think about this."

 

[stasber]

Hi Nomad - that's quite a mouthful alright but I see how complex your situation is, and think that you explained it well. I just have a few cents to put into your tip jar

Firstly, Peter Krogh's The DAM Book makes a good read for 'how to think about organizing your pics'. I don't use CS2 or 3 nor Bridge or whatever so I adapted his principles to my needs after much chewing the cud.

It is important to oragnize your master images in one way and one way only; whichever way makes the most sense for your intended purpose. That will be your call.

There is debate about what constitutes a 'master' image and what constitutes a 'derivative' but essentially it's generally a good idea to have a folder structure for your master images, or those that you start off with and import, and another for your derivatives, or those that you later alter and export for whatever purpose.

Lots to write about but the short version would be..

- LR is not presently set up for true networking, but...

- You can have one set of images centrally located and people update them remotely - just not at the same time. Catalogs can be synced. You can do an 'Import from Catalog' over a network connection so that those who need it would have a copy of your catalog on their machine. From there on in, each of you syncs your folders. It would sync image edits (xmp), metadata, stars, labels, snapshots, but NOT virtual copies. You may be prompted with 'image edited by another application' overwrite yes/no.

- Although the initial build of a (large) catalog would take pretty long, syncing wouldn't necessarily. What I'm uncertain of, is whether a subsequent 'Import from Catalog' would find and import the differences to that catalog - such as new Collection Sets etc - and just import those and/or just affect the changes, rather than duplicating everything or making a mess (I was going to try this myself but was caught short & haven't returned to my experiment).

- To organize your pics in different ways consider using Collection Sets and Collections within them, even Smart Collections - anything with a keyword of 'Balcony' and 3 stars or more, throw it in here.. etc. Unfortunately, pics in Collections can't be stacked either.

- Your folder hierarchy appears to be already captured in metadata - i.e. Country, State/Province, City, Location, etc etc. so you may be duplicating what the metadata potentially should/might/would have - with a well maintained library all of this lark comes together nicely, otherwise you have much work ahead to build that structure! You can filter on this in Library. Just a thought.

Regarding importing - where do you want the photos to be? If you're happy where they are then import at their current location. Importing is just telling the database where they are so it can keep track. And when you move them about within LR, it knows where they are and will also physically move them on the drive too. And physically moving folders about on the drive will also register in LR.

That'll do for now me thinks

 

[Brad Snyder]

Nice one Stas, thanks for picking up the ball.

 

[Nomad]

Thanks to those who have responded so far. I'm sorry if my original message seemed daunting. My biggest concern is the office location problem, so let me try to restate and focus on that part in hopes of getting a few more responses:

I'm responsible for everything to do with our photos. The Master Photo Drive is located at My Office. All of our photos are permanently housed on this drive. However, all new photos are received at the Main Office. Someone there can copy the new photos to their server. I can access them from their server remotely, or they can mail them to me via CD. Also, the office and I each have a copy of LR.

I assume I should copy the originals onto The Master Photo Drive (at my office) and do all of my work on them there (metadata changes, edits, versions, etc).

The main office wants me to be the first person to review the photos to do a simple 'keep' or 'throw away' determination. (I'm thinking I could use LR flags to do this).

Once I've done that, I need someone at the main office to review only the "kept" photos, and:

1. add a caption to each photo
2. select which photos they want to use for the web gallery
3. provide a suggested sequence for the web gallery images

I assume they could do their work using LR to update some of the metadata (captions, ratings, colors, etc.)

Once they've done their part, I need to incorporate their contributions into my LR and proceed from there to do everything else on the photos.

It's possible that after I do some of my work, I may need the office to review some things and make a few more changes on their end before I can continue. As before, any changes they make will be restricted to keywords or IPTC metadata.

Keeping in mind the role that each party (me/office) plays in the workflow, as well as our different locations, what's the best way to do this using LR?

I need to fully absorb the implications of stasber's suggestions (thank you stasber). About the sync'd catalogs idea: Is it possible to synch 2 large LR catalogs via remote access without it taking forever, choking system resources, crashing, etc?

In case this changes anything, the Main Office does not need to maintain a copy of any of the original images in full size (or subsequent versions) on their server. They certainly could, but it's not necessary for what they do. All the main office needs to keep on their server for daily use is subset of 2'-3' images for each property -- final edited 'versions' of the 'master images' saved as smaller jpgs. Other than that, the only other images they will need to keep on their server is whatever they need in order to fulfill their role in the LR process.

Thanks again.

 

[stasber]

About the sync'd catalogs idea: Is it possible to synch 2 large LR catalogs via remote access without it taking forever, choking system resources, crashing, etc?

In case this changes anything, the Main Office does not need to maintain a copy of any of the original images in full size (or subsequent versions) on their server. They certainly could, but it's not necessary for what they do. All the main office needs to keep on their server for daily use is subset of 2'-3' images for each property -- final edited 'versions' of the 'master images' saved as smaller jpgs. Other than that, the only other images they will need to keep on their server is whatever they need in order to fulfill their role in the LR process.

Thanks again.

When you say remote access - if it's dialup then you'll be crippled obviously :lol:, if it's broadband then it should be an "acceptable" solution depending on your/their contract (upload/download caps, contention etc), if it's a network (WAN) then you should be pretty safe. I think it might also depend on any tertiary software you may be using for the said 'remote access'.

As the Main Office doesn't need to keep a copy then put all of the master images on your server. They would remotely be syncing their catalog with the pics on your server. If you/they only make changes to metadata then those changes will be available to them/you; same goes for image corrections like colour, contrast, cropping etc.

For their own stuff they can either add it to the same catalog, importing images at or from a different location, or use a second catalog for it; and images they want need to keep from your catalog they can label up, or export as derivatives.

LR will let them view and edit metadata on offline images too - so when they are not connected to your server they can still edit metadata, stars, labels etc. They won't be able to edit the images themselves (however you'll need to discipline yourselves about updating/syncing). But with 1:1 previews they should also be able to export the images to file or even print with them.

LR lets you make multiple Label sets, which you can then filter on (there's only 5 colours after all). So even though the label colour is the same, the filter will list all of the label badge colours as well as the label names that exist in the catalog (i.e. images using those labels). [I had a right mess one time cos I kept on renaming my labels, then only later discovered I had about 2' label names to choose from, with several reds, some blues, a few yellows etc, most of them obsolete.. and images all over the place] This means you can label them as Red "For Review", which they'll see, then they can re-badge it with another Label Set in their workflow as Red for "Approved" if you get the idea. Depends on how much of a workflow you need with different labels or 'statuses'.

Given your need to work from the same catalog remotely, I'd avoid using Collections & virtual copies to keep things simple, and suggest that your main catalog remains synced and basically "the same" - anything else they want to do, they set up another catalog for it. If necessary, export/import from the main catalog to another.

Try this on a small scale first as a pilot, iron out your woes before launching into it.

 

[Nomad]

I just ran a test with a coworker at the main office. They don't have remote access setup to connect to the photo drive yet, but I can remote in to them, so we did the test as if we were playing each other's roles.

The office person was at her workstation. She connected to the server there and tried to create a new catalog on the server, but LR wouldn't let her create a new catalog on a network volume. However, she was able to create a catalog on her workstation computer & import photos from the server to her catalogue. We did about 2' photos for the test. Then she quit LR and copied her catalog to the server so I could access it. Then I logged in to the server and tried to open her catalog, but received the error message "LR cannot launch with this catalog. It is either on a network volume or on a volume on which LR cannot save changes". However, I was able to "import from catalog" and select the catalog on the server. The photos imported from the catalog on the server with the message "creating temporary working copy of catalog" I made some changes to metadata and saved the changes. Then I quit LR, asked the co-worker at the office to log back in, copy the catalog back to her workstation and open it. She did, but the changes I made were not there.

I'm not sure what went wrong or what to do next.

 

[stasber]

Yes that all makes sense.

She has a catalog on her workstation with 2' images that are located on the server, and she can access those images via the catalog (i.e. imported at current location), and make changes to them.

You have a catalog on your workstation with the same 2' images that are located on the server, and you can access those images via the catalog (i.e. imported at current location), and make changes to them.

1 set of images located centrally, 2 catalogs using them. The changes should be saved with the images, which are in one location and accessed by each catalog.

I do have auto-write XMP setting to on, by the way. That could make the difference, as unselected, any changes are saved to the catalog and not the XMP file. I do believe the default is unselected. (Lightroom > Catalog Settings > Metadata > check the box for automatically write changes into XMP.)

Lightroom Help: About metadata and XMP

If you make changes to them, and she then syncs her folders, those changes should appear in her catalog, and if she makes changes to them, then you should see them next time you sync folders.

To sync folders, right click on the folder and choose Synchronize Folder... Choosing the parent folder would synchronize all sub folders. Synchronizing looks for changes to metadata and photos added or removed at the physical location.

 

[Nomad]

stas,

Thank you very much for helping me with this. I am now on a week's vacation from work, so I will be trying to put all of this out of my mind until I get back. I know it won't be easy as my boss wants me to come up with a new system to manage our photo situation and implement it by ... last week, but I'll do my best to ignore those thoughts. If you (or anyone else) wants to weigh-in on or discuss on this topic while I'm "away", I'll be glad to respond upon my return.

thanks again!!!

 

[stasber]

No problem Nomad, I hope that this works out for you. If anyone else has anything to chip in then please do by all means...