Scanner Questions for Lightoom Classic?

[rebop]

Lightroom Version

Latest Classic

Operating System

1. Windows 10

Just bought a used Nikon Scanner model Coolscan V as recommended over current scanners in similar price ranges. I have thousand of slides I'd like to scan and save to my NAS. I have a few questions you "might" be able to help with here:

1. How do I find the plugin that allows me to acquire from Lightroom and/or Photoshop? Thisis Windows. Almost any versions of windows plugin will work. It is "possible" there are only Macintosh plugins/ Searching makes that hard to tell.

2. Lightroom CC says that both TIF and NEF from the scanner are not proper files to use denoise. Now, these are scanned slides, not out of the camera. I tried both 14 bit 48 bit color and 8 bit 2 bit color and nothing works. Anyway to make this happen? I would have thought at the least the NEF would have worked.

Thanks.
~Bob

 

[Hal P Anderson]

2. I'm surprised that Lightroom will accept the NEF. A scanner-produced raw file is very different from a raw from a camera. In any case, film grain is nothing like the grain you get from a digital camera, so denoise won't be the tool to use.

 

[johnrellis]

Lightroom CC says that both TIF and NEF from the scanner are not proper files to use denoise. Now, these are scanned slides, not out of the camera. I tried both 14 bit 48 bit color and 8 bit 2 bit color and nothing works. Anyway to make this happen? I would have thought at the least the NEF would have worked.

Nikon's NEF format can contain different kinds of images -- scans from its scanners and raw sensor data from its cameras. Denoise only works on raw sensor data from cameras.

 

[johnrellis]

"How do I find the plugin that allows me to acquire from Lightroom and/or Photoshop? Thisis Windows. Almost any versions of windows plugin will work. It is "possible" there are only Macintosh plugins/ Searching makes that hard to tell."

Photoshop used to support the industry-standard TWAIN interface for acquiring scans directly from scanners, but no longer:
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/twain-scanner-plugin.html

I don't think LR ever supported TWAIN.

For my project scanning tens of thousands of slides years ago, I configured the scanning software (Silverfast in my case) to scan TIFFs to a folder. I used LR's File > Auto Import to automatically import files from that folder.

I don't know if Nikon still supports its own scanning software. But on Windows, Vuescan is a very popular, reasonably priced alternative.

 

[johnbeardy]

For my project scanning tens of thousands of slides years ago, I configured the scanning software (Silverfast in my case) to scan TIFFs to a folder. I used LR's File > Auto Import to automatically import files from that folder.

That's what I did too. Silverfast is still around, and this method worked better for me than scanning into PS where I always get distracted into editing a particularly-interesting photo rather than making progress with the scanning.

 

[PhilBurton]

Just bought a used Nikon Scanner model Coolscan V as recommended over current scanners in similar price ranges.

Congrats.

I have thousand of slides I'd like to scan and save to my NAS. I have a few questions you "might" be able to help with here:

There is a Facebook group devoted to Nikon scanners. There are two fantastic guys who repair and service Nikon scanners. Frank A Phillips and Gleb Shtengel. There are lots and lots of very knowledgeable people, including advocates for both NikonScan (under Windows 10) and Vuescan. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1514948298527146. It is a private group, so you have to apply to get in, but as a Nikon scanner owner you will surely get admitted.

1. How do I find the plugin that allows me to acquire from Lightroom and/or Photoshop? Thisis Windows. Almost any versions of windows plugin will work. It is "possible" there are only Macintosh plugins/ Searching makes that hard to tell.

I have never seen such a plug-in, but between NikonScan, Vuescan and Silverfast, you have a range of good choices. If you do uncover such a plugin, I'm interested.

2. Lightroom CC says that both TIF and NEF from the scanner are not proper files to use denoise. Now, these are scanned slides, not out of the camera. I tried both 14 bit 48 bit color and 8 bit 2 bit color and nothing works. Anyway to make this happen? I would have thought at the least the NEF would have worked.

NEF files output from Nikonscan are known not to be compatible with Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.

 

[PhilBurton]

I don't know if Nikon still supports its own scanning software.

Nikon most certainly does not. And it is a 32-bit program. However, clever people have found ways to run NikonScan on Windows 10 64. Try this search. "64 bit support for NikonScan."

 

[rebop]

Thanks all. Good info!

- Makes sense on denoise and scanned film. Got it.

- Using Nikon Scan 4.03 - the last version from 2008. Works well, John. VERY simple hack to get it up and running. But what I found is I do MUCH better not using it for anything other than the scan and doing EVERYTHING else in Lightroom, maybe a touch of Photoshop. So "acquiring" directly from lightroom would save some steps and i could just feed slides while multitasking. I do save to a folder and import now. I also doubt I would see much difference in any way if it were 64 bit.

- .nef is automatically associated with Photoshop in Windows. Double click and it opens in Camaera Raw. So sees it as easitly as the tif. There most defintely WAS a plugin that wroked in Lightroom. My guess is it was a simple TWAIN plugin. Cannot find it. I shall keep looking

- Wish the file sizes were smaller. I am used to 30 NB raw files or less. These are 130-132 MB. It will be ok, but triggering a Black Friday Jones for a new NAS.

I anyone where has ever experienced the difference between the older Nikon Scanners (Coolscan V or LS-50) and a plustek maybe 8200i ai, I would love to know what you thought. I am finding the Nikon good. I would love better.

~Bob

 

[PhilBurton]

- Using Nikon Scan 4.03 - the last version from 2008. Works well, John. VERY simple hack to get it up and running. But what I found is I do MUCH better not using it for anything other than the scan and doing EVERYTHING else in Lightroom, maybe a touch of Photoshop. So "acquiring" directly from lightroom would save some steps and i could just feed slides while multitasking. I do save to a folder and import now. I also doubt I would see much difference in any way if it were 64 bit.

If you can run Nikon Scan on your system with no issues, then go for it.

- Wish the file sizes were smaller. I am used to 30 NB raw files or less. These are 130-132 MB. It will be ok, but triggering a Black Friday Jones for a new NAS.

Yup! Do the math on a scanner with 4000x6000 pixels, 16 bit resolution, for 3 colors.

I anyone where has ever experienced the difference between the older Nikon Scanners (Coolscan V or LS-50) and a plustek maybe 8200i ai, I would love to know what you thought. I am finding the Nikon good. I would love better.

The Nikon V has the same optics as the 5000, which supports a batch feeder. Reputed to have excellent optics. Also, there are aftermarket mods so that your scanner can accept the SF-210 batch feeder. https://github.com/kosma/coolscan-mods

If you are interested, I would suggest that you join the Facebook Nikon scanner group and ask the right questions.

 

[rebop]

If you can run Nikon Scan on your system with no issues, then go for it.


Yup! Do the math on a scanner with 4000x6000 pixels, 16 bit resolution, for 3 colors.


The Nikon V has the same optics as the 5000, which supports a batch feeder. Reputed to have excellent optics. Also, there are aftermarket mods so that your scanner can accept the SF-210 batch feeder. https://github.com/kosma/coolscan-mods

If you are interested, I would suggest that you join the Facebook Nikon scanner group and ask the right questions.

Thanks Phil. Actually joined the group day after I go tthe scanner

 

[Conrad Chavez]

1. How do I find the plugin that allows me to acquire from Lightroom and/or Photoshop? Thisis Windows. Almost any versions of windows plugin will work. It is "possible" there are only Macintosh plugins/ Searching makes that hard to tell.

There won’t be a plug-in, because I am not aware that there has ever been a scanning plug-in for Lightroom or Classic. There are some for Photoshop, but a lot of them are kind of clunky to use.

The NikonScan software provided by Nikon for the Coolscan series has not been updated in many years. For Mac users, none of the old versions of Coolscan will run on a current Mac. It might still be possible to run the old NikonScan software in Windows, but I’m not sure.

The way to use a Nikon film scanner productively today is with a non-Nikon application. Silverfast is one, VueScan is another.

I use Vuescan with my Nikon film scanner, and as far as I'm concerned it’s better integrated with Lightroom Classic and more efficient than NikonScan ever was, and better than any plug-in. My film scanning workflow is:
1. In Lightroom Classic, set up a folder for the Watched Folder/Auto Import features.
2. Set the scanning software (in my case, VueScan) to always save scans to the same folder Lightroom Classic is watching.
3. Start bulk scanning film. I feed it slide after slide, or entire filmstrips (mine has a motorized filmstrip loader).
4. As the scanning software drops finished scans into the folder one after the other, Lightroom Classic Auto Import notices them, and without me having to do anything, Lightroom Classic Auto Import adds each of them to the catalog. If Lightroom Classic is visible in the background, you can watch the scans pop up in it as they come in.
5. When I am done scanning, I switch to Lightroom Classic and start working with all those scans as if it was a fresh import from a digital camera card.

2. Lightroom CC says that both TIF and NEF from the scanner are not proper files to use denoise. Now, these are scanned slides, not out of the camera. I tried both 14 bit 48 bit color and 8 bit 2 bit color and nothing works. Anyway to make this happen? I would have thought at the least the NEF would have worked.

AI Denoise works only with mosaiced camera raw files. Scanners always save files that are already saved to RGB channels (demosaiced). So Lightroom Classic is not going to allow AI Denoise to work on film scans until Adobe relaxes the file format requirements, so that AI Denoise will work on demosaiced DNG, TIFF, Photoshop, and JPEG formats at the very least. Adobe has said that they are interested in widening file format support, but with no indication of how soon it might happen.

Also keep in mind that if the goal is to remove film grain from film/print scans, that is not what AI Denoise has been trained to do so far. AI Denoise is trained to remove digital sensor noise, which is a totally different thing.

 

[rebop]

There was a TWAIN plugin. 32 bit only it appears. Perhaps stopped at Lightroom 5 Conrad.
As I said, Nikon Scan 4 runs perfectly with a small hack on Windows 10 64 bit. I AM sure I can duplicate your workflow with Nikon Scan. No issues.

Got it on Denoise. If I had thought for another three minutes might have come to that realization by myself....

 

[BobT]

In any case, film grain is nothing like the grain you get from a digital camera, so denoise won't be the tool to use.

Off topic, sorry. This explains why I have such difficulty cleaning up digitally reproduced film images. Thanks!

 

[PhilBurton]

The NikonScan software provided by Nikon for the Coolscan series has not been updated in many years. ... It might still be possible to run the old NikonScan software in Windows, but I’m not sure.

It is possible, even Windows 10 64, with drivers you find on the net.

2. Set the scanning software (in my case, VueScan) to always save scans to the same folder Lightroom Classic is watching.
3. Start bulk scanning film. I feed it slide after slide, or entire filmstrips (mine has a motorized filmstrip loader).

Negatives? If so, do you invert in Lightroom? Have you considered Negative Lab Pro? https://www.negativelabpro.com/

5. When I am done scanning, I switch to Lightroom Classic and start working with all those scans as if it was a fresh import from a digital camera card.

 

[davidedric]

I also have a Coolscan V. I've digitised a lot of slides, most recently using Vuescan (thought I did it the dumb way of scanning to a named folder, named depending on the project, and then Imported into Lightroom).

A lot of my slides were taken in tricky conditions (a lot of overland travel in hot countries), and I used high iso Ektachrome (200 or 400). I was a bit disappointed to find that slides that had looked fine when projected on a screen, didn't look so great on a monitor. It didn't really matter, because most of what I wanted was to relive old memories, so as a result I just did some basic adjustments to the digitised images.

However, I did find the whole business very tedious, inertia took over, and I effectively stopped. I recently decided to get some, around a thousand, commercially scanned. I didn't select particular slides: they'd been fairly well culled before they went in the magazines. It wasn't cheap, around 30p, 30c if you like, a slide. I'm happy enough with the results, and for me it was worth it.

Anyone want to buy the Coolscan?

 

[Paul_DS256]

However, I did find the whole business very tedious, inertia took over, and I effectively stopped

I also found it tedious, especially culling. I started to first scan thumbnail size images, which was a lot quicker, then scan those in high resolution for processing. Made getting through the stack a lot quicker.

Here’s a Scanning forum you may mind useful https://www.photrio.com/forum/forums/scanning-and-scanners.361/

 

[Conrad Chavez]

Negatives? If so, do you invert in Lightroom? Have you considered Negative Lab Pro? https://www.negativelabpro.com/

I have often thought about buying NegativeLab Pro, and I still might some day. It looks great. The reasons I haven’t yet are:

I have not needed to invert in Lightroom Classic, because VueScan does a decent (not perfect) job of inverting a film scan. So when Lightroom Classic auto-imports those scans, they are already positive images. And then part of my Auto-Import settings is a default Develop preset that advances that starting point a little further (default curve, sharpening, noise reduction*, etc), to lower the amount of editing I have to do.

I’ve been satisfied enough with the results I get from editing in Lightroom Classic from that point. But I would like to find some time to experiment with NegativeLab Pro and see if its film-specific presets and features might help further improve the few scans I want to print large. Or see if I would prefer how it inverts. Also, I still have some hope that Lightroom Classic will add a negative film invert feature (many have requested it), but part of me thinks negative film scanning isn’t a workflow they’re interested in committing resources to right now.

And yes, even with a tuned workflow, bulk film/print scanning is still tedious…I’ll do a few rolls, get tired, stop for a few weeks, then do a few more rolls…

*Quick tip…to reduce grain in a scan of color film, applying a small amount of Color Noise Reduction is much more effective and less destructive to detail than applying a higher amount of Luminance Noise Reduction.

 

[zeldon50]

Nikon's NEF format can contain different kinds of images -- scans from its scanners and raw sensor data from its cameras. Denoise only works on raw sensor data from cameras.

Actually, I have been using Denoise on slide scans with excellent results for years. It requires a bit of tweaking using the sliders, but with practice, yields quite good results.

 

[BobT]

I have often thought about buying NegativeLab Pro, and I still might some day. It looks great. The reasons I haven’t yet are:

I have not needed to invert in Lightroom Classic, because VueScan does a decent (not perfect) job of inverting a film scan. So when Lightroom Classic auto-imports those scans, they are already positive images. And then part of my Auto-Import settings is a default Develop preset that advances that starting point a little further (default curve, sharpening, noise reduction*, etc), to lower the amount of editing I have to do.

I’ve been satisfied enough with the results I get from editing in Lightroom Classic from that point. But I would like to find some time to experiment with NegativeLab Pro and see if its film-specific presets and features might help further improve the few scans I want to print large. Or see if I would prefer how it inverts. Also, I still have some hope that Lightroom Classic will add a negative film invert feature (many have requested it), but part of me thinks negative film scanning isn’t a workflow they’re interested in committing resources to right now.

And yes, even with a tuned workflow, bulk film/print scanning is still tedious…I’ll do a few rolls, get tired, stop for a few weeks, then do a few more rolls…

*Quick tip…to reduce grain in a scan of color film, applying a small amount of Color Noise Reduction is much more effective and less destructive to detail than applying a higher amount of Luminance Noise Reduction.

I have NegativeLab Pro. It's a bit fiddly. I wouldn't bother unless you have hundreds of negatives to do. I've done all of mine. If the odd one comes along, I do it in LrC. You can white balance off the orange border, invert with the tone curve and adjust.

 

[Conrad Chavez]

Actually, I have been using Denoise on slide scans with excellent results for years. It requires a bit of tweaking using the sliders, but with practice, yields quite good results.

I think the question in the first post is specifically about the new AI Denoise feature in Lightroom/Camera Raw, and that has not been around for years, only since April. It has only one slider and very restricted file format support. It sounds like you might be talking about the Noise Reduction panel instead, which has multiple sliders and works with non-raw files.

Until Adobe widens AI Denoise file format support, the only way I know of to use AI Denoise with a film scan is to digitize the film using a digital camera set to save as raw, not using a scanner. But even then, what AI Denoise is trained to do is look for digital camera sensor noise, so it may not work as expected on film grain.

 

[BobT]

Actually, I have been using Denoise on slide scans with excellent results for years. It requires a bit of tweaking using the sliders, but with practice, yields quite good results.

I suspect John is talking about AI Denoise rather than the Noise Reduction slider. The AI may see film grain as texture needed to be preserved rather than unwanted electronic noise.

 

[PhilBurton]

I also have a Coolscan V. I

Anyone want to buy the Coolscan?

@davidedric

Suggest that you join the Facebook Nikon scanner group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1514948298527146 Then look for "for sale" posts by Frank A Phillips. It might help to have either Frank or Gleb Shtengl service the scanner so that the mirror is clean, it's well-lubed, etc. Then post a " for sale" message.

 

[rebop]

OK. I was fortunate in convincing the seller to take back the Coolscan and refund me. Seems it took me 5 days of wondering why I was not happy and then finding out how to test, where to find the error and how to interpret. Turned out to be easier than expected, just hard to find.

When turning on the scanner., I would get the expected and desired slow blink as it self checked, then 15 fast blinks before going solid. This indicated a hardware failure. In this case, after more research, the inability to autofocus. While most of the expert afficiandos suspect it is only a dirty mirror and perhaps lens and they do that cleaning themselves, its a first surface silver mirror and I have not been blessed with watchmaker hands. So I thought it best to bail.

Now, time for another scanner and it seems the best choice (unless I found a new Coolscan in the box is the Plustek 8300i - either SE or AI. I do not think that autofocuses but could be wrong. Though regardless, folks seem to love them. Three choices on software from the Plustek QuickScan (included) and SilverFast SE or AI Studio and of course, VueScan at additional cost.

What makes sense to me - and open to learning more - is to scan at highest resolution so done once and with no correction in the scanner software other than DUST or ICE removal and then send to Lightroom for Color, Crop, Sharpening, etc. If that is even possible to do only scan and ICE.

IF that is true - then it is possible only the rudimentary QuikScan could do that, but cannot find enough information to confirm if and how it does ICE. If that is not true. SilverFast may do more to modify the image than I would like before taking to Lightroom.

So, any better reasonable choice?
Anyone intimate with Plustek and SilverFast software?
Should I expect the scanner software to do more for me, such as color correction, before importing to Lightroom?

Almost back to square one

~Bob

 

[Conrad Chavez]

What makes sense to me - and open to learning more - is to scan at highest resolution so done once and with no correction in the scanner software other than DUST or ICE removal and then send to Lightroom for Color, Crop, Sharpening, etc. If that is even possible to do only scan and ICE.

It should be possible, and what you described is what I like to do: Scan all the pixels, and use ICE to remove all the dust/scratches, but leave almost all tonal and color correction to Lightroom or Photoshop. Photo editing software tends to be faster, easier to use, and more powerful, than the color features in most OEM scanning software.

I’m not familiar with Plustek QuickScan, but in the VueScan scanning software I use, this is generally what I do:

• Watch how the black point and white point are set. I want image tones to fill the histogram (to not waste levels), but without clipping shadows or non-specular highlights.
• Leave white balance/color uncorrected. Combined with unclipped black point and white point, the Auto Settings and Auto White Balance features in Lightroom Classic will be much more reliable. (Compared to if the scanning software was allowed to permanently apply some color correction that, if it wasn’t optimal, might be difficult to reverse later.)
• Leave cropping loose, I even leave the a little of the frame visible around the edges. I just want to have every original pixel, to allow fully reversible and flexible cropping later in Lightroom.
• Apply ICE because it saves so much time later.
• If the film is negative, have the scanning software invert the scan.
• Have the software save out a 16 bits/channel TIFF file for Lightroom Classic to pick up. This results in very large image files, so I bit the bullet and bought (now relatively affordable) very large storage drives for images and their backup. You could choose to scan low-value images at 8 bits/channel for smaller files.

If you choose maximum resolution, remember to make sure it’s the maximum hardware resolution and not (if offered) a higher interpolated resolution. If for some reason you need a higher resolution than what the scanner can do in hardware, scan at max hardware resolution and then later, apply AI upscaling in current photo applications by Adobe (e.g. Super Resolution) or other companies like Topaz.

IF that is true - then it is possible only the rudimentary QuikScan could do that, but cannot find enough information to confirm if and how it does ICE. If that is not true. SilverFast may do more to modify the image than I would like before taking to Lightroom.

ICE might just be a simple toggle. That said, the main difference between the two is that QuickScan is bundled OEM software, which tends to be simpler; and SilverFast is very respected and powerful scanning software that has been around for a long time and supports many scanners for professional workflows. Although I’m not familiar with either, my guess is that SilverFast will provide more options and control, and maybe more ways to turn off the stuff you don’t want it to do.

 

[rebop]

Thanks Conrad. We seem mostly in agreement.

Silver Fast comes with the Plustek scanners as well as the more rudimentary QuikScan. The version of SilverFast differs with the version of the scanner, i.e., SE for that model and AI for that. You pay for it. I suspect I may not need it since I am a Lightroom user. BUT, the two hard bits to find are where to implement ICE and what control I have on that in the lower priced software - or even higher priced. If QuickScan has that, then the SE could save me some money. And thendoes the missing autofocus create and softness in scanning on the Plustek. Other than used, seems to be my only real choice.

OH, and there are "discussions" on whether the Plustek does 7200 dpi or if that is interpolated and if there is any observable differencce between setting at 3600 or 7200. Seems there is a bit of marketing speak around that.

So doing my homework again.