saving/restoring metadata (development settings) of TIF files to companion file

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ehch

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LR stores development settings (and other metadata) of TIF files in the LR database and, optionally, in the header of the TIF file, rather than in an xmp sidecar file like it does for Raw files.

Is there a way of exporting/reimporting all this data and store it in a "companion file"?

Rationale: I have large TIF files (12' MB). After developing/keywording etc and exporting the resulting prints with LR I want to compress the original files to much smaller JPEG2''' files and delete the original TIFs (too big to keep and backup). When I want to re-edit/print any photo I can always recreate the TIF but then LR has lost my original settings.

Would be easier if LR would support JPEG2'''...or if it would use sidecars for all file types...

I am aware of LR/Transporter plugin - but this is more suitable to export a few selected items, and it cannot import.

Any suggestions? thanks
Edwin
 
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If you already have the metadata stored in the LR catalog, why do you need a 'sidecar' file? Sidecar files are for those proprietary RAW formats from camera manufacturers like Nikon and Canon.
What is your Source for these Large TIFFs? How do you plan to recreate them? If you already have RAW files, then LR will write the metadata to a sidecar file if the source is an NEF or inside the DNG if you have a DNG. As others will tell you there is no need to keep anything between the RAW master and the final derivative. Unless there is a compelling reason, there is no reason to even keep the derivative.
If your source is the TIFF, convert that to a compressed DNG.
[quote author=ehch link=topic=747'.msg51'83#msg51'83 date=1249542323]
LR stores development settings (and other metadata) of TIF files in the LR database and, optionally, in the header of the TIF file, rather than in an xmp sidecar file like it does for Raw files.

Is there a way of exporting/reimporting all this data and store it in a "companion file"?

Rationale: I have large TIF files (12' MB). After developing/keywording etc and exporting the resulting prints with LR I want to compress the original files to much smaller JPEG2''' files and delete the original TIFs (too big to keep and backup). When I want to re-edit/print any photo I can always recreate the TIF but then LR has lost my original settings.

Would be easier if LR would support JPEG2'''...or if it would use sidecars for all file types...

I am aware of LR/Transporter plugin - but this is more suitable to export a few selected items, and it cannot import.

Any suggestions? thanks
Edwin
[/quote]
 
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Welcome to the forums Edwin!

You can delete those TIFF from disk and Lightroom will just report them as missing; Just don't delete from Lightroom. You can optionally discard 1:1 previews and just keep the small ones.

In the event you have to recreate, just use the same datasource (scan?) and use the same filename and location on disk. No need to reimport as Lightroom will find it and use its adjustments. If the reacquired TIFF is missing the XMP data and that you have auto write to XMP enabled, it may report a mismatch. In this case, just overwrite (Ctrl-S / Cmd-S).

That would be fine if you go to your member profile and fill in the section about your OS version etc. This may help us as answers vary depending on users' setups... Thanks.
 
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Thanks for your quick replies.
My TIF files are 16 bit color, 12' MB (Nikon 4'''ED scanner with VueScan from slides).
DNG compressed is 85MB, still too big to keep; and so is JPEG2''' lossless at 75MB.
JPEG2''' 2'x compressed (6 MB only!) is indistinguishable from the original even viewed at 4''%. So I want to keep these as my "originals", delete the big TIFs and all slides (except the few top ones).

LR will in principle keep the xmp data in the catalog - but they might get lost if I inadvertently do a sync on the directory or if LR decides to do a clean up of the database?

So for now I use the following workaround: I replace the big tiffs in the LR directory by tiny ones (generated by ACDsee Pro), do a CTL-S to store the metadata in the tiff just to be safe and store the JPEG2''' "originals" alongside. If and when I need to "redevelop" a photo I can recreate the big Tiff from the jp2 "original".

All this would be easier if LR would use sidecars for tiffs. And it would make making backups less painful: only the sidecars need to be backed up when I edit a photo, not the big tiffs. ( I use web-based Mozy and Sugarsync in addition to external hard disk).

I changed my member profile - hope it works this time.
Edwin
 
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Denis, thanks for this valuable link.
(summary) Write-protecting a dng does make Bridge/ACR (5.4) write a xmp sidecar; but it does not work in Lightroom (2.4).
(comment) this only works for DNG, not for tif or jpg.
Edwin
 
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Aaaaaah, so that's how you found that thread Edwin! Edwin and I have been chatting by email.

I'd still go with regular catalog backups as the obvious solution, but talking nicely to Tim Armes, who wrote the LR/Transporter plugin might be an interesting option. I'm not entirely sure how much of the data the SDK gives access to - that's still on my to do list - but a read/write sidecar option could be very useful.
 
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More info on this topic:

- In Bridge you can view and export xmp data (and reimport) via: file>file info>last two tabs:Raw data.
However it only works for one file at a time.

- both Adobe and ACDsee Pro use xmp sidecars - but these are incompatible!!!
Other packages (e.g. DxO Optics Pro, Capture One) have their own sidecars and filetypes - so you can "develop" one photo with several packages in parallel.

Edwin
 
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[quote author=ehch link=topic=747'.msg51544#msg51544 date=125'173123]
- both Adobe and ACDsee Pro use xmp sidecars - but these are incompatible!!!
[/quote]

Interesting! Incompatible, or not fully compatible? What doesn't work?
 
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Incompatiblities between ACDsee Pro 2.5 and LR XMP implementations are severe:

LR (and ACR) XMP development settings (crop, WB, Tone, etc) are not recognized by ACDsee Pro2.5. The IPTC data have different headings and item names. LR shows only few exif data items ACDsee many more. Star ratings get lost. Keywords are retained.

The ACDsee xmp settings for raw files are also stored in an XMP file (an existing xmp file will be overwritten). LR does not recognize any of the settings made by ACDsee.

To be fair:
LR warns that an xmp has been modified by an external program before overwriting.
ACDsee has its own .rpp sidecar format that you can use to export development settings from its database.

So much for a standard...
Unless and until this gets fixed it would be much better for all packages to have their proprietary sidecar format.

There are more incompatibilities between applications, eg for IPTC and EXIF data items.
I've done some testing with ViewNX, Capture NX2, Bridge, LR, Picasa3, DXO, Capture One, Irfanview, XNView, (using exiftool and others) but gave up quickly - there are simply too many incompatibilities.
So, it is problably best to stick with just one application and live with its limitations...
 
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Thanks for filling in the gaps Edwin. I wouldn't have expected develop settings to have been compatible, although I'd expect both to be stored. IPTC should logically be similar though, even if the labelling is slightly different.

But yes, I'd agree, you save yourself a lot of headaches by sticking with one program.
 
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