saving? exporting to original?

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kellysue22

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I just got Lightroom and want to use it to adjust the exposure for my photographs...I am a photographer and it seems like it will be faster for me rather than opening in photoshop EVERY single picture...I make the changes in lightroom and love how it looks, but the original is still the same in the file. I could export each one, one by one, but that will take FOREVER and it doubles the size of the files...

IS there a way to do what I am wanting it to do?
 
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Lightroom operates differently than Photoshop when it comes to saving your changes.

In Lightroom, when you make a change to a photo, the change is stored in Lightroom's database, not in the photo file itself. You don't have to tell Lightroom to do a Save, because it doesn't work that way, the change is saved to the database automatically; therefore, when you make a change to a photo in Lightroom, the file itself remains unchanged.

If you need a copy of the changed photo on your hard disk for some reason (for example, to send to someone else, or to upload), then and only then would you request Lightroom to do an export and create a copy of your photo with the changes you made applied to it. You wouldn't do this globally to all your photos. To do this export, in the Grid view in Lightroom, select all the photos you want, then File->Export creates the versions of each photo you selected. I wouldn't recommend Exporting to Original, as I think it is an absolutely horrible thing to do to overwrite your original for many reasons. I wish Adobe hadn't put that in there, but Adobe (and most people) doesn't listen to me.

Once you are done with the exported photos (you have sent them somewhere or uploaded them), I delete the exported photos. They are temporary and serve no purpose and take up disk space. You can always get them back again from Lightroom via File->Export.
 
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ok that makes sense...my only concern is having THAT many duplicates on my computer...that's ALOT of pictures. I do wedding photography and literally take over a 1,''' pics each wedding and edit almost everyone for exposure...I can do it how you suggested, but that would leave ALOT of duplicates right?
 
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kellysue22 said:
ok that makes sense...my only concern is having THAT many duplicates on my computer...that's ALOT of pictures. I do wedding photography and literally take over a 1,''' pics each wedding and edit almost everyone for exposure...I can do it how you suggested, but that would leave ALOT of duplicates right?
Click to expand...

I believe I suggested that the exports are temporary. You use them to send to others, or to upload, and once that is complete, you delete them. You can always recreate them from Lightroom.
 
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But I am wanting the exports to be permanent. I am just editing for exposure...does that make more sense? and the exporting of the files are double of the original...what's up with that?
 
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The permanent version is the one in Lightroom. It always has your changes. So there is only one copy, except when you export. And you don't export every single time you edit a photo (well, I don't, I'm not a wedding photographer; your work as a wedding photographer may be different).

You export only when you need the photos outside of Lightroom (for example, to send to a client or to upload to a website or to print at a lab). Once sent, you delete the export. Back to one copy.

So, you come home from a wedding, you have 1''' new photos, you import them to Lightroom, you make adjustments to them (and maybe add some keywords or create some collections), and that's it. Stop right there. One copy.

A few days later, you have to send the photos to your client. You export them, send them off, delete the exported copies. Temporarily there are two copies, but for most of the time, there is only one copy.
 
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ok that's much easier than I thought...My only issue will be uploading to my client viewing...

for example, I use Printroom...I upload from a file on my computer. Then my clients can go view their pictures then buy them. Once they have been purchased, I am directed by printroom to synchronize the full version from the file on the computer. It does this by being directed from where it got it's thumbnails. How do I get to the edited versions from Lightroom to printroom? It looks like I will have to export to a folder on my computer, upload to printroom, delete that folder, then if someone buys prints, I will have to upload them individually myself since the folder will now be gone.
 
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Dennis - are you saying that, in effect, it is only necessay to save the RAW files (or DNG) and delete the jpegs, on the basis that you can always create more of the latter from the former?
 
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kellysue22 said:
ok that's much easier than I thought...My only issue will be uploading to my client viewing...

for example, I use Printroom...I upload from a file on my computer. Then my clients can go view their pictures then buy them. Once they have been purchased, I am directed by printroom to synchronize the full version from the file on the computer. It does this by being directed from where it got it's thumbnails. How do I get to the edited versions from Lightroom to printroom? It looks like I will have to export to a folder on my computer, upload to printroom, delete that folder, then if someone buys prints, I will have to upload them individually myself since the folder will now be gone.
Click to expand...

You can try either "select all" and cmd-s to save the changes to your raw files as .xmp side cars or turn on the auto-write to xmp which will save the changes to the files automatically. I don't know if your software will read the sidecar files though so you may want to experiment.
 
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Roy Mathers;4476' said:
Dennis - are you saying that, in effect, it is only necessay to save the RAW files (or DNG) and delete the jpegs, on the basis that you can always create more of the latter from the former?
Click to expand...

That is correct.....:lol:
 
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kellysue22 said:
ok that's much easier than I thought...My only issue will be uploading to my client viewing...

for example, I use Printroom...I upload from a file on my computer. Then my clients can go view their pictures then buy them. Once they have been purchased, I am directed by printroom to synchronize the full version from the file on the computer. It does this by being directed from where it got it's thumbnails. How do I get to the edited versions from Lightroom to printroom? It looks like I will have to export to a folder on my computer, upload to printroom, delete that folder, then if someone buys prints, I will have to upload them individually myself since the folder will now be gone.
Click to expand...

Oh, that's different! I am not familiar with that software. I guess could do it either way ... delete the temporaries and then recreate; or keep them around just in case you need them again. Up to you.
 
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Roy Mathers;4476' said:
Dennis - are you saying that, in effect, it is only necessay to save the RAW files (or DNG) and delete the jpegs, on the basis that you can always create more of the latter from the former?
Click to expand...

Dennis? Has Dennis been in here? :D
 
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dj_paige;4475' said:
...In Lightroom, when you make a change to a photo, the change is stored in Lightroom's database, not in the photo file itself. You don't have to tell Lightroom to do a Save,...
Click to expand...
Paige, you give very good advice in general really! But here, there is something that is bothering (not the exact english word I am looking for) me: It is about the misconception that Lightroom will never write to your original photo file. One shall understand that "Lightroom will never write to the photo in the original file". As you know, for JPEGs, TIFFs and PSDs, Lightroom can be told to write develop changes back to the photo file and this won't overwrite the photo it contains. For raw files, the only exception to write back to the file rather than to an XMP sidecar is if one enable to write change to original date/time back to the original file.

In short: Lightroom will never overwrite the original image but can overwrite the original file. The file is a container; Not an image... ;)

EDIT: I should correct myself before Mark Sirota does it... :roll:
Above it should read: "Lightroom will never overwrite the original image DATA but..." as the raw data is not an image until interpreted by a raw converter...
 
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Its really a matter of personal preference. There are no hard and fast "rules". I shoot RAW and keep all my CR2 files in a folder named "CR2 files" inside a parent folder such as 2''9_'5_2'_Beach_Shots. I also keep my xmp files in the CR2 folder (because that is where LR stores them....together with the RAW files).

I also create a folder called "Jpeg_144'px_LR2" in the parent folder to which I export low resolution 144'px high quality Jpegs of all my pictures. These are only around 1MB in size which does not really add greatly to storage as the CR2 files are around 7MB. If I need high resolution Jpegs for printing etc. then I will create them on an ad-hoc basis.

For completeness I also create another folder called "xmp" in which I back-up copies of my xmp files in case they should ever get "accidentally" corrupted or changed. Also if I create a set of black and whites I sometimes additionally create a folder called "xmp_b&w" in which I copy the xmp files showing the b&w version. This is in addition to creating snapshots and sometimes virtual copies.

I then back this whole lot up onto external hard drives.

Is this over the top. Yes. Is it all necessary. No. But that is just the way I like it and it works for me.
 
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Related Question

As Lightroom Newbie, this is a really interesting discussion. I think I have always 'got' the concept of the non-invasive metadata - I tried Raw Therapee for a while and it stores the metadata along with but separate from the image. That reinforced the concept. However, since Lightroom doesnt obviously store it on your hard drive, I have a different, but related question. I travel a lot, and for original editing, I import my RAW images to my laptop. I do editing on the road and while at home, but once the editing is done (now), I want to move my RAW images to an external hard drive, but I dont want to either lose the changes I've applied or have the changes applied permanantly. I assume:

1. If I move the images using Windows Explorer, Lightroom will get confused about the metadata, even if I reimport the new folder.

2. If I try 'moving' the images using Lightroom, my changes become somehow part of the image (does this mean it's no longer RAW but now DNG?). I am not familiar enough with DNG yet, but I think I understand that any changes that are applied are permanent.

I arrived at the second assumption since when I attempted to do a 'move', Lightroom generated a message telling me that I could not undo the move, and I could not undo any changes applied to the image.

Can someone help me understand what is incurred with the 'move', and also if my assumptions are correct. And if they are, can someone help me understand how to move my RAW impges, but retain the associated metadata, without making it a permanent part of the image.

Phew - thats a lot. BTW, I am blown away by the capabilities and ease of use of the 'develop' option. And I believe I have just scratched the surface. But, man, that price for an amateur certainly makes you think twice.

Thanks for any help

Colin
 
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Kellysue, I use a print fulfillment system similar to the one you describe.

1) I import an event shoot of up to 2k images per day.
2) I process, mostly for framing, exposure, color.
3) I export everything to a JPG temporary holding folder by predetermined event category folders. My fulfillment software takes over from there, by creating a separate master folder tree of full resolution photos, and uploading thumbnail quality images to the fulfillment website at the same time. When a client orders, the website itself requests/auto-uploads the high rez copy for print fulfillment.
4) Once the master website tree is created and thumbnail uploads verified, I delete the JPG holding folders. So as far as Lr is concerned, I'm back to the single raw file.
5) Yes, I end up with the duplicate JPGs embedded in the web fulfillment system, but I regard that as a necessary evil, and don't attempt to track or manage it, except at the event level. I just keep a separate hard drive for that sole function.

It sounds quite complicated, but it's actually pretty simple. It would have to be after 12 hours behind the lens and 6 hours or so in front of Lr.
 
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colinm85;448'1 said:
As Lightroom Newbie, this is a really interesting discussion. I think I have always 'got' the concept of the non-invasive metadata - I tried Raw Therapee for a while and it stores the metadata along with but separate from the image. That reinforced the concept. However, since Lightroom doesnt obviously store it on your hard drive, I have a different, but related question. I travel a lot, and for original editing, I import my RAW images to my laptop. I do editing on the road and while at home, but once the editing is done (now), I want to move my RAW images to an external hard drive, but I dont want to either lose the changes I've applied or have the changes applied permanantly. I assume:

1. If I move the images using Windows Explorer, Lightroom will get confused about the metadata, even if I reimport the new folder.

2. If I try 'moving' the images using Lightroom, my changes become somehow part of the image (does this mean it's no longer RAW but now DNG?). I am not familiar enough with DNG yet, but I think I understand that any changes that are applied are permanent.

I arrived at the second assumption since when I attempted to do a 'move', Lightroom generated a message telling me that I could not undo the move, and I could not undo any changes applied to the image.

Can someone help me understand what is incurred with the 'move', and also if my assumptions are correct. And if they are, can someone help me understand how to move my RAW impges, but retain the associated metadata, without making it a permanent part of the image.

Phew - thats a lot. BTW, I am blown away by the capabilities and ease of use of the 'develop' option. And I believe I have just scratched the surface. But, man, that price for an amateur certainly makes you think twice.

Thanks for any help

Colin
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard Colin!!
First the changes made in LR can be saved alongside raw files as.xmp sidecar files. This can be achieved either through enabling autowrite in the Catalog Settings or by ctrl or cmd-s to write the changes to the xmp file. Otherwise all changes are maintained only in the catalog. If you do have the saving to xmp on it still keeps everything in the catalog.
1. Don't move using Explorer unless absolutely necessary as the links will be broken and you will need to reconnect. Reimporting is usually a no, no!!
2. The message with the Move command is a bit confusing it just means that you cannot use undo or crtl-z to undo it. This has been noted and hopefully will be better worded in a future release!! Move does just move the files as they are and is the best way to shift files.
 
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This is great advice from Geoff, and can't be said often enough.

Kiwigeoff;448'8 said:
1. Don't move using Explorer unless absolutely necessary as the links will be broken and you will need to reconnect. Reimporting is usually a no, no!!
Click to expand...

I usually go further and advise people to simply stop thinking about moving or renaming or taking any action on their photos in Windows/Mac Explorer. Just don't go there any more. Just don't do it. Just stop!

Lightroom works best (and requires the least work from the user) when your entire workflow is in Lightroom. Stepping out of Lightroom to do things in Windows/Mac Explorer not only can cause problems, but its just extra work that is not necessary or can be done more easily inside of Lightroom.

In reading many many many posts here in Lightroom Forums, I see lots of people who have problems with their files and catalog when they do things in Windows/Mac, but very few posts from poeple who have problems with their files and catalogs when they let Lightroom handle everything.

Another person in this thread makes extra copies of his .xmp files in a separate folder that just contains .xmp files. Good for you! But I can't begin to imagine why this is necessary, as Lightroom handles all of this for you, and I can't begin to imagine doing that extra work myself. This is even more true if you have a good global backup strategy, making manual backups of the .xmp files seems to be work with no benefit. (And you do have a good global backup strategy, don't you?)
 
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