Develop module Reflection Removal in LRC Not Working

[asislen]

Lightroom Version Number

14.4

Operating System

1. macOS 15 Sequoia

The attached shows the result I'm getting when trying the new reflection removal tool in Lightroom Classic, released in v14.4. I have tried multiple images with the same result. I am running LRC on a MacPro with Sequoia 15.5.All the images I've tried are Nikon RAW files from a Z8.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[clee01l]

I'm not seeing this on my Nikon Z7 images. But I am not also seeing any real results. The NEFs did not show much before and after differences . The screen shot below is a before and after HEIC taken from inside a bus looking out the bus window. This type of reflection is supposed to be the poster child of Distraction removal in Adobe's hype..
Before:

After

Here is anotherHEIC example where the distraction remoaval worked
Before

After

 

[John R Ellis]

The attached shows the result I'm getting when trying the new reflection removal tool in Lightroom Classic, released in v14.4.

I just tried a couple sample Z 8 raws from dpreview.com and didn't encounter that problem.

If you share one of the problem raws, we can see if the problem occurs on other installations, and if so, file a bug report, and if not, try to figure out what's going wrong with your installation. (Adobe only pays attention to bug reports they can easily reproduce.)

In LR, select the photo and do Metadata > Save Metadata To File. Then upload the raw and its .xmp sidecar to Wetransfer, Dropbox, Google Drive or similar free service and post the sharing link here. We can see if the issue is specific to your computer or occurs on other installations.

 

[asislen]

Thanks, John. Here's a Dropbox link to the original RAW (Nikon .nef) and the .xmp. I greatly appreciate any feedback you, or any other forum users can provide.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/zp80...ey=4dng7ikkph6uq4rqvhfpg9pwx&st=j504ca6j&dl=0
Alan Sislen

 

[asislen]

John,
Going through many posts on Adobe's website, I seem to be having the same problem that many PC users running Intel processors, as well as older Macs with Intel processors have reported. I just tried my 2021 MacBook Pro with the M1 Max chip and reflection removal appears to work as intended. My problem is only occurring on my 2019 MacPro with with a 3.3 GHz 12-Core Intel Xeon W.

This has been an obvious and well-reported issue since last December (obviously using ACR). I'm VERY surprised Adobe would release this update to Lightroom Classic without fixing this hardware conflict that they have been aware of for 6 months!

Alan Sislen

 

[Califdan]

Seems to work reaonably on my Windows/11 machine. Got rid of most of the annoying reflections. left the white car top of street light and 'strong' reflections like the balck planter box and some side walk at the bottom right

Here's what it got rid of

 

[Johan Elzenga]

The attached shows the result I'm getting when trying the new reflection removal tool in Lightroom Classic, released in v14.4. I have tried multiple images with the same result. I am running LRC on a MacPro with Sequoia 15.5.All the images I've tried are Nikon RAW files from a Z8.View attachment 26507Any guidance would be appreciated.

Looks like a GPU problem. Wat type of GPU does the MacPro have? I think there are known issues with certain GPUs.

 

[John R Ellis]

as well as older Macs with Intel processors have reported. I just tried my 2021 MacBook Pro with the M1 Max chip and reflection removal appears to work as intended. My problem is only occurring on my 2019 MacPro with with a 3.3 GHz 12-Core Intel Xeon W.

Right. I mistakenly assumed you were on an Apple Silicon Mac. You're referring to this thread:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...-amd-only-affects-cr-lrc-amp-lrd/m-p/14563606

Mac OS 14.4.1 included a buggy graphics driver for the AMD 500- and 5000-series GPUs used in late-model Intel Macs. For most people, updating to Mac OS 15 5 months later resolved the issue -- presumably, AMD supplied a fixed graphics driver. But there were some for whom updating didn't help. I think most of those were experiencing problems with particular AI commands, not general editing in Develop as before.

The workaround for those on Mac OS 14 was to set Preferences > Performances > Use Graphics Processor to Off (and live with the slower performance). But this workaround didn't help those experiencing the glitches with AI commands, since Adobe inexplicably refuses to have the AI commands obey the setting of Use Graphics Processor.

Adobe does document a magic file you can place in the Camera Raw settings folder that it claims will stop the AI commands from using the GPU:
https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/acr-gpu-faq.html#lens-blur

The simpler AI commands like AI masking are slower without a GPU but not intolerably slow (e.g. 10 seconds instead of 2). But Denoise could take 30 minutes instead of 15 seconds. I haven't timed Distraction Removal without a GPU, but I supect it would take 5 or 10 minutes at least.

However, this magic-file backdoor broke soon after they announced it. I tested it just now, and it only appears to work for some AI commands (e.g. Subject) but not for Lens Blur or Distraction Removal.

So until/if Apple and AMD decide to fix the bugs in the AMD 500- and 5000-series driver, you're out of luck with your Intel Mac. Apple and AMD are the primary culprits here, but Adobe's refusal to have the AI commands obey Use Graphics Processor is just as frustrating, since it would be trivial to implement.

 

[mstrathmore]

Right. I mistakenly assumed you were on an Apple Silicon Mac. You're referring to this thread:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...-amd-only-affects-cr-lrc-amp-lrd/m-p/14563606

Mac OS 14.4.1 included a buggy graphics driver for the AMD 500- and 5000-series GPUs used in late-model Intel Macs. For most people, updating to Mac OS 15 5 months later resolved the issue -- presumably, AMD supplied a fixed graphics driver. But there were some for whom updating didn't help. I think most of those were experiencing problems with particular AI commands, not general editing in Develop as before.

The workaround for those on Mac OS 14 was to set Preferences > Performances > Use Graphics Processor to Off (and live with the slower performance). But this workaround didn't help those experiencing the glitches with AI commands, since Adobe inexplicably refuses to have the AI commands obey the setting of Use Graphics Processor.

Adobe does document a magic file you can place in the Camera Raw settings folder that it claims will stop the AI commands from using the GPU:
https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/acr-gpu-faq.html#lens-blur

The simpler AI commands like AI masking are slower without a GPU but not intolerably slow (e.g. 10 seconds instead of 2). But Denoise could take 30 minutes instead of 15 seconds. I haven't timed Distraction Removal without a GPU, but I supect it would take 5 or 10 minutes at least.

However, this magic-file backdoor broke soon after they announced it. I tested it just now, and it only appears to work for some AI commands (e.g. Subject) but not for Lens Blur or Distraction Removal.

So until/if Apple and AMD decide to fix the bugs in the AMD 500- and 5000-series driver, you're out of luck with your Intel Mac. Apple and AMD are the primary culprits here, but Adobe's refusal to have the AI commands obey Use Graphics Processor is just as frustrating, since it would be trivial to implement.

thanks for this, John; just linked over to this from another post. I suspect no one at Adobe is going to care too much about older Intel Macs, and I have to say that it's probably fair enough, given one shouldn't expect the AI features that no-one even suspected would exist in 2025 to work on an Intel Mac from 2019 (though it would be nice...). Given that MacOS support for Tahoe won't be available for most Intel Macs, I suspect most folks will be planning to upgrade in the near term. I'd honestly make more noise about this if it was the more general AI features, but I don't take too many vital-must-have photos through a window, needing reflection removal. Though, again, it would be nice...

 

[clee01l]

thanks for this, John; just linked over to this from another post. I suspect no one at Adobe is going to care too much about older Intel Macs, and I have to say that it's probably fair enough, given one shouldn't expect the AI features that no-one even suspected would exist in 2025 to work on an Intel Mac from 2019 (though it would be nice...). Given that MacOS support for Tahoe won't be available for most Intel Macs, I suspect most folks will be planning to upgrade in the near term.

I processed your image using a M2 Ultra Mac Studio. I would not consider the results entirely successful. but better than none at all. I agree with you on Adobe and Apple support for older Macs. Adobe follows Apple on support for older hardware. As soon as Apple stops providing updates for the Intel Macs, So will Adobe.

 

[rparry]

I am trying to remove reflections in Lightroom Classic 14.4 but the resulting image is just garbage resembling a horizontal planked door (best description I can come up with). See attached files.
I am using a desktop with AMD Ryzen 5600g with 32gb memory running on Windows 10 (latest version).
I have tried increasing the integrated GPU's memory allocation to 2gb without success. Turning off the GPU again without success . I have run Windows in safe mode with networking which turns off the GPU of course. The reflection removal ran for a while and then just stopped without any alteration god or bad to the image.
Any suggestions short of a rebuild would be welcomed.

 

[clee01l]

Any suggestions short of a rebuild would be welcomed.

I have been less than thrilled with the reflection removal tool. I have probably one of the most performance worthy setups in my 64GB M2 Ultra Mac Studio.

I’m not sure the reflection removal tool is ready for production use.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BobT]

Seems to work reaonably on my Windows/11 machine. Got rid of most of the annoying reflections. left the white car top of street light and 'strong' reflections like the balck planter box and some side walk at the bottom right

View attachment 26512

Here's what it got rid of
View attachment 26513

I also run Windows 11/64 on an Intel i7 machine with that problem. It works well for easy situation. Occasionally, I find the background image becomes out of focus for some reason. Also, there are limitations on the ability of the AI to distinguish what is reflection and what is real when the reflection is strong.

 

[clee01l]

I also run Windows 11/64 on an Intel i7 machine with that problem. It works well for easy situation. Occasionally, I find the background image becomes out of focus for some reason. Also, there are limitations on the ability of the AI to distinguish what is reflection and what is real when the reflection is strong.

There is another thread where a person posted a photo shot thru a window with reflections They were not able to be successful. I worked on the same image and still had poor results.

I had several photos that I took through a bus window. If any thing, the results were worse. These type photos are the poster examples that Adobe is using to show off their new tool. As I have said I am less than impressed with the tool.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BobT]

I am trying to remove reflections in Lightroom Classic 14.4 but the resulting image is just garbage resembling a horizontal planked door (best description I can come up with). See attached files.
I am using a desktop with AMD Ryzen 5600g with 32gb memory running on Windows 10 (latest version).
I have tried increasing the integrated GPU's memory allocation to 2gb without success. Turning off the GPU again without success . I have run Windows in safe mode with networking which turns off the GPU of course. The reflection removal ran for a while and then just stopped without any alteration god or bad to the image.
Any suggestions short of a rebuild would be welcomed.

I'm guessing the issue is the integrated GPU. They are intended for basic graphics only, not AI applications. I strongly suggest installing a current discrete GPU. Perhaps someone familiar with AMD can recommend one. In the Nvidia world, it would have to be an RTX, 4000 series or better.

 

[John R Ellis]

I'm guessing the issue is the integrated GPU.

I have tried increasing the integrated GPU's memory allocation to 2gb without success.

I agree that the garbled output is likely the result of running on an integrated GPU with too little graphics memory. The minimum required by LR is 2 GB, but that is a soft requirement. Adobe introduced it several years ago when People Masking was failing on lower-end GPUs. Since then, there have been reports on the Adobe forums of people successfully running AI masking on less graphics memory and some failing on more. I suspect that the actual limit depends highly on the particular GPU. And the minimum may be much different for integrated GPUs that share main memory -- Adobe has never clarified its requirements for integrated GPUs. Finally, I think the latest crop of AI commands (Lens Blur, Denoise, Distraction Removal) uses the GPU more intensively.

So yes, BobT gave the conservative answer -- get a more capable discrete GPU.

 

[blair.ramsey]

Right. I mistakenly assumed you were on an Apple Silicon Mac. You're referring to this thread:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...-amd-only-affects-cr-lrc-amp-lrd/m-p/14563606

Mac OS 14.4.1 included a buggy graphics driver for the AMD 500- and 5000-series GPUs used in late-model Intel Macs. For most people, updating to Mac OS 15 5 months later resolved the issue -- presumably, AMD supplied a fixed graphics driver. But there were some for whom updating didn't help. I think most of those were experiencing problems with particular AI commands, not general editing in Develop as before.

The workaround for those on Mac OS 14 was to set Preferences > Performances > Use Graphics Processor to Off (and live with the slower performance). But this workaround didn't help those experiencing the glitches with AI commands, since Adobe inexplicably refuses to have the AI commands obey the setting of Use Graphics Processor.

Adobe does document a magic file you can place in the Camera Raw settings folder that it claims will stop the AI commands from using the GPU:
https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/acr-gpu-faq.html#lens-blur

The simpler AI commands like AI masking are slower without a GPU but not intolerably slow (e.g. 10 seconds instead of 2). But Denoise could take 30 minutes instead of 15 seconds. I haven't timed Distraction Removal without a GPU, but I supect it would take 5 or 10 minutes at least.

However, this magic-file backdoor broke soon after they announced it. I tested it just now, and it only appears to work for some AI commands (e.g. Subject) but not for Lens Blur or Distraction Removal.

So until/if Apple and AMD decide to fix the bugs in the AMD 500- and 5000-series driver, you're out of luck with your Intel Mac. Apple and AMD are the primary culprits here, but Adobe's refusal to have the AI commands obey Use Graphics Processor is just as frustrating, since it would be trivial to implement.

I get the same issue as Asislen when trying to use the reflection tool. However, I've also been having massive issues with AI remove and masks erroring out as soon as I begin editing the next image in develop mode. I've followed all of adobe's recommendations but can't get past it. The only way to deliver images is to export them one at a time (clearly not sustainable). I'm on a 2019 MacBook Pro with 2.4 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9 and an AMD Radeon Pro 5600M 8 GB/Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB (Sequoia 15.5/LR Classic 14.4). Do you agree that I'm solidly in the middle of the hardware conflict you mention above? If so, is my only option a new laptop? Thanks so much for your input.

 

[John R Ellis]

I've also been having massive issues with AI remove and masks erroring out as soon as I begin editing the next image in develop mode.

What in particular are you seeing when it "errors out"? The AI Edit Status button turning yellow? If you're seeing error messages, please include a full-resolution screenshot (not a phone pic).

 

[blair.ramsey]

What in particular are you seeing when it "errors out"? The AI Edit Status button turning yellow? If you're seeing error messages, please include a full-resolution screenshot (not a phone pic).

This error occurs on every photo the moment I move to the next image in the gallery. I am forced to re-edit each image (there is no guarantee that 'update all' will look the same) and export them individually to apply masking and AI Remove edits.

 

[blair.ramsey]

View attachment 26803
This error occurs on every photo the moment I move to the next image in the gallery. I am forced to re-edit each image (there is no guarantee that 'update all' will look the same) and export them individually to apply masking and AI Remove edits.

Running denoise results in this error. If I select OK, the error message goes away but recurs every time I use any slider on that image.

 

[blair.ramsey]

Running 'reflections' takes almost 3 minutes and results in the nil error, then this. I appreciate any guidance you can provide.

 

[blair.ramsey]

Just finished with Adobe support (again). Once I asked about the hardware conflict, they admitted it was a know issue and I moved back to LRC 14.2. They say the bug fix will be released the middle of this month. Thank you for being here and responsive - without this forum, I'd still be exporting one image at a time and watching deadlines and business pass me by. Thanks again!

 

[John R Ellis]

Re Denoise's "An internal error has occured. ?:0: attempt to index a nil value.": Here's the bug report, acknowledged by Adobe:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...e-attempt-to-index-a-nil-value/idi-p/15382270

In general, Adobe doesn't publicly state when bugs will be fixed. LR 14.5 is due in the next week or two, so we'll see.

Re AI settings constantly needing updating (the AI Edit Status button turning yellow), a fair minority of users have strugged with that. One known cause, but likely not the only one, is using the Imagen AI service, which is buggy. If you're using Image AI, see here:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...pdating-and-or-disappear/m-p/15440482#M410573

If not, the working of deleting the <catalog>.lrcat-data file (detailed in that post), often but not always fixes the issue.

 

[mikejh62]

I am new to these forums and have found this particular topic very interesting. My variant of the problem is that whenever I try to use the Reflections tool it fails to do anything , except disable my GPU (according to the Preferences / Performance tab). It shows a box saying that it will be 5 seconds, then it stops. I can, of course, reset this in the nVidea Control Panel, but hopefully the anticipated update will address this problem.

Win 11
Intel i9 9820x
64GB Ram
nVidea Quadro M4000

 

[blair.ramsey]

Re Denoise's "An internal error has occured. ?:0: attempt to index a nil value.": Here's the bug report, acknowledged by Adobe:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...e-attempt-to-index-a-nil-value/idi-p/15382270

In general, Adobe doesn't publicly state when bugs will be fixed. LR 14.5 is due in the next week or two, so we'll see.

Re AI settings constantly needing updating (the AI Edit Status button turning yellow), a fair minority of users have strugged with that. One known cause, but likely not the only one, is using the Imagen AI service, which is buggy. If you're using Image AI, see here:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...pdating-and-or-disappear/m-p/15440482#M410573

If not, the working of deleting the <catalog>.lrcat-data file (detailed in that post), often but not always fixes the issue.

That's it - I'm a heavy Imagine and Evoto user. Every gallery goes through Imagine. I'll weigh in on the other string in hopes of adding fuel to the Imagine case. Looks like I have both the hardware conflict issues related to the 2019 MacBook with Intel/Radeon and the imagine catalog corruption problems. Thanks again!!