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Reading XMP sidecar files automatically on import

retina

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Hi folks,
is there a way for Lightroom to automatically read an associated XMP sidecar file when importing RAW files?

I know that you can select any number of files and use the menu option 'Metadata>Read metadata from file' after importing, but I would like to have the option of doing this automatically on import.

Cheers
Steve
 

retina

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Nope - not for me.

I'm using an App called 'FastRawViewer' for fast image review before importing to Lightroom. A cheapskate version of PhotoMechanic. I export or transfer to LR having labelled or 'starred' the keepers. This creates an XMP sidecar file. When imported into LR, the Labels and Stars are recognised but any image edits [exposure, white balance etc.] are not picked up unless I action 'Metadata>Read metadata from file' in the menu. When I do this the edits are recognised, but not before.
 
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Nope - not for me.

I'm using an App called 'FastRawViewer' for fast image review before importing to Lightroom. A cheapskate version of PhotoMechanic. I export or transfer to LR having labelled or 'starred' the keepers. This creates an XMP sidecar file. When imported into LR, the Labels and Stars are recognised but any image edits [exposure, white balance etc.] are not picked up unless I action 'Metadata>Read metadata from file' in the menu. When I do this the edits are recognised, but not before.
Yep, also for you. As you say, Lightroom picks up the labels and stars, which proves it does read the xmp-file, just like I said. The fact that it ignores the develop settings is probably because these are considered incompatible. Why it would suddenly find them compatible if you use 'Read Metadata from File' I don't know.
 

retina

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Just did the same test in Photoshop to make sure. Same thing happens.

So Adobe app considers another Adobe app to be incompatible, go figure. Considering we can round trip quite happily as long as the version of Camera Raw is the same something else must be going on.
 

retina

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Thanks Johan,
I have that checked. I tried both with and without :(

As I say, you would think that Photoshop [RAW] would play nicely even if 3rd party Apps don't.
 
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So Adobe app considers another Adobe app to be incompatible, go figure.
FastRawViewer is not an Adobe app.

As I say, you would think that Photoshop [RAW] would play nicely even if 3rd party Apps don't.
Why would and how could Adobe 'play nicely' if 3rd party apps don't? If FastRawViewer wants Lightroom/Photoshop to read its edits, then FastRawViewer should make sure they are compatible and in a format that Adobe apps understand, not the other way round. That preference setting seems to try to do that, but somehow it doesn't achieve what the authors of FastRawViewer intended. You have to complain with them, not with Adobe.
 

retina

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Apologies if I've not made it clear Johan. I don't expect FastRawViewer to be compatible, as you say it's not an Adobe App, why should it.

There is not a problem with the XMP file from FastRawViewer or Photoshop. I can make a RAW edit in Photoshop, open the file in FastRawViewer and it will recognise the edits. We know that Lightroom can read the XMP file, if invoked via the menu system in Lightroom.

So it's back to the original question, why can't it do it automatically when importing?
 
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@retina,
What app is generating the develop adjustments? ACR uses specific algorithmns to correspond to the Adobe meaning for Exposure, Brightness etc. Any other non Adobe app will use different meanings for these adjustments and different algorithms even if the term uses the same word. (i.e. Exposure, etc.) A Brightness of 57 might be very different if the app uses a scale 0—100 while adobe uses a scale of -150 — +150 and then you have to ask yourself "57 units of what?" And then you need to consider that the Brightness adjustment is for the Adobe Process version 2003 and is not even present in Process version 2012 (current)
 
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The fact that ratings and labels are read, proves that Lightroom does read the xmp file. I don't know why Lightroom does not read the develop settings in that file, but I think that's a problem that the author of FastRawViewer needs to solve. He's the one who claims that FastRawViewer is compatible with Lightroom (with the proper settings in the preferences). It must have something to do with the way FastRawViewer writes those settings into the xmp file. It's certainly something you cannot solve yourself in Lightroom. Have you filed a bug report with FastRawViewer?
 

retina

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OK folks
take FastRawViewer out of the equation completely, this is obviously confusing everyone.

Open a RAW file in Photoshop, reduce the exposure by three stops, for example. Close Photoshop. Import the same file [now with an XMP Sidecar file added] into LIghtroom. The file does not register the exposure change until you go to the menu and invoke 'read metadata from file'.
 
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OK folks
take FastRawViewer out of the equation completely, this is obviously confusing everyone.

Open a RAW file in Photoshop, reduce the exposure by three stops, for example. Close Photoshop. Import the same file [now with an XMP Sidecar file added] into LIghtroom. The file does not register the exposure change until you go to the menu and invoke 'read metadata from file'.
This is because the change is recorded in the metadata in the (XMP) file. LR has already cataloged this image before it was sent to PSCC. LR does not know whether you want the adjustment recorded in the LR catalog or the adjustment in the file itself. It does detect that they are different and reports that to you for you to make the decision. Of course this only applies to ACR changes made by PSCC/ACR and not other PSCC edits. Other PSCC Edits are not saved in XMP. and the only way to can preserve this is to destructively alter the image data. This is why when you save a PSCC Edited RAW file, you get a new TIFF or PSD back in your catalog.
 
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OK folks
take FastRawViewer out of the equation completely, this is obviously confusing everyone.

Open a RAW file in Photoshop, reduce the exposure by three stops, for example. Close Photoshop. Import the same file [now with an XMP Sidecar file added] into LIghtroom. The file does not register the exposure change until you go to the menu and invoke 'read metadata from file'.
If it's really a new import (not a file sent from Lightroom to Photoshop), that doesn't happen. At least not on my system. I just tried it and the exposure correction shows on import. I don't have to manually use 'Read Metadata from File' to make Lightroom see it.
 
Last edited:

retina

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Cletus,
your explanations of roundtripping makes perfect sense. I was aware of that in the deeper recesses of my brain, but had forgotten, so not a good point of reference. I bow to your greater knowledge :)

Johan.
Yes, a completely new import. I'm on the same Mac OS and software versions as you, so it's very odd, that we have a difference. If it works for you, it gives me hope that it's achievable. I need to dig deeper. Thank you for taking the time to test.
 

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Hmm. I use (and LOVE) FastRawViewer, in part because it works so well with Lr (and I keep saying it's the ingester/importer Lr should have).

I just tried it out since I haven't used it in a while but with current versions of both applications and an Oly RAW (orf) FRV could rate and label,apply WB, and change exposure, and all of these were shown in Lr upon an import. I checked the XMP sidecar and it was all there before import.

Perhaps that value mentioned above wasn't checked? or a preset in Lr is overriding the FRV changes?

BTW the other application I have that does Lr compatible adjustments like WB and exposure works the same way; Lr recognizes the XMP.
 

retina

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CRACKED IT! - yeehaaaaaa
Thank you Johan, it was your insistence that it was working with the same setup that forced me to dig deeper. Rob, you nailed it. But I didn't see your contribution until after I had found the solution.

The fly in the ointment was as Rob pointed out, I had a develop preset being applied on import. I went through and checked each option one at a time, updated the preset and imported the file. The one that broke everything was when the 'basic tone' section was selected, even it everything is zeroed out. Without it, no problems. The attached screenshot is the combination that worked [no basic tone options checked].

I can only surmise that LR is not sure which settings should take priority, so it gives up and defaults to none [in my case].

Thanks everyone.

upload_2016-7-14_20-36-9.png
 
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No, I don't think that Lightroom gives up and defaults. It's much easier. Your preset stored a zero exposure and zero cropping. Because a preset is applied after the xmp is read, your preset effectively did reset the edits in the xmp file.
 

retina

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Ahhhh - all becomes clear. Thanks Johan - I shall sleep soundly tonight :) :sleep:
 
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:):):)

BTW, it also explains why 'Read Metadata from File' worked the way it did. Lightroom does not automatically write to xmp, unless you set this in the preferences. Apparently you haven't set this, so the xmp generated by FastRawViewer was not overwritten by the new zeroed settings in Lightroom. That's why 'Read Metadate from File' could restore them.
 

retina

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Yeah - I turned off 'write to xmp' deliberately. That's what threw me, I was expecting a 'read from xmp' option in the same area of the preferences. When I couldn't find it I wasn't sure if it was possible. Hey ho - live and learn as they say. Thanks again for your time.
 
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