'Read Metadata from File' deletes Develop settings

[David Gordon]

Lightroom Version Number

LrC 11

Operating System

1. macOS 11 Big Sur

My modus operandi is to process files in Lrc and make metadata (caption) changes in Photo Mechanic. My round trip ends as I 'Read Metadata from Files' in Lrc to update the captions before exporting JPEGs.

LrC 11 seems to have changed something somewhere: today I lost all my Develop processing changes when I read the updated metadata. I've had to reprocess 25 files...

'Something' could be the changes made where LrC no longer automatically writes to XMP even when the 'Automatically write changes into XMP' is ticked?

 

[Jim Wilde]

One of the changes in LrC11 is the ability to pause the automatic saving of XMP (if you have the auto-write to XMP option enabled in Catalog Settings). Check that you don't have it paused (open the Activity Centre and you should see a new "Saving XMP" entry there....if it's paused click on the play button to resume it).

There's also now the ability to see a count appearing above the ID plate when large numbers of XMP files are being saved (it'll be too quick to see when only a few files are having their XMP saved), but to see that count you have to enable it in the Activity Panel settings menu (right-click on the ID plate and enable the "Auto save XMP" option under the "Show Status and Activity" section).

 

[David Gordon]

(if you have the auto-write to XMP option enabled in Catalog Settings). Check that you don't have it paused

No, its not paused.

to see that count you have to enable it in the Activity Panel settings menu (right-click on the ID plate and enable the "Auto save XMP

Well that's rather unexpected, "Saving XMP for 80,000 photos" (and counting down).

Why I have that many photos requiring XMP saving I have no idea. I've always had LrC set to automatically write changes. So perhaps my latest shoot is at the back of the queue. I'll leave LrC open and running and report back later.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

LrC 11 seems to have changed something somewhere: today I lost all my Develop processing changes when I read the updated metadata. I've had to reprocess 25 files...

As a side note, you should just be able to reselect the previous History state rather than re-editing.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

My modus operandi is to process files in Lrc and make metadata (caption) changes in Photo Mechanic. My round trip ends as I 'Read Metadata from Files' in Lrc to update the captions before exporting JPEGs.

LrC 11 seems to have changed something somewhere: today I lost all my Develop processing changes when I read the updated metadata. I've had to reprocess 25 files...

'Something' could be the changes made where LrC no longer automatically writes to XMP even when the 'Automatically write changes into XMP' is ticked?

It could also be a Photo Mechanic problem. If PM deletes the develop data from the sidecar file when it writes the captions, then ‘read metadata from file’ will reset the develop settings in Lightroom.

 

[David Gordon]

As a side note, you should just be able to reselect the previous History state rather than re-editing.

Never used History! I'll read that chapter,

It could also be a Photo Mechanic problem. If PM deletes the develop data from the sidecar file when it writes the captions, then ‘read metadata from file’ will reset the develop settings in Lightroom.

No, never happened before, didn't happen until LrC was updated yesterday.

 

[David Gordon]

Yesterday and overnight LrC has written to 80,000 odd XMP files.
I've retested, made Develop changes in LrC, made metadata changes in Photo Mechanic and the result is the same, on reading the updated XMP LrC wipes out the Develop changes. This is not the previous (LrC 10) behaviour.
What I'm seeing is LrC - despite the settings - is not writing changes to XMP. So when I have it read new changes it overwrites the database and resets Develop. (Someone with a better understanding may be able to explain that better.)
If I manually 'Save Metadata to File' and then make changes in Photo Mechanic everything is fine, LrC 10 behaviour. But I've never had to manually save changes in the past.

 

[Jim Wilde]

I can't reproduce that, which means I also can't explain why it's not working correctly for you.

I have a bunch of files which are cataloged in two separate catalogs. In one, with "Auto write to XMP" enabled, I made a bunch of changes and confirmed that the Metadata Status showed "Up to Date", which means that the changes have been saved to the XMP sidecar files (I also verified the Time Modified timestamp on the XMP sidecar files had been updated to match the time that I made the changes). I then opened the other catalog, and looked at the shared folder and saw the Metadata Conflict flag on the thumbnails. I used that and selected overwrite catalog settings from those in the XMP file, and all changes that I had made in the first catalog were applied to the images in the second catalog.

Given that the manual writing of XMP seems to work as expected, the inference is that there is an inordinate delay in automatically saving the changes to XMP on your system. Before you head off to PM, do you verify what the Metadata Status is showing....i.e. when you make the develop changes in LrC the status should change to state "Has been changed", which should then change again to "Up to Date" when the XMP data has been auto-saved. Normally, you might not even see the "Has been changed" status if the auto-saving is instant.

 

[David Gordon]

I can't reproduce that, which means I also can't explain why it's not working correctly for you.

I have a bunch of files which are cataloged in two separate catalogs.

Thanks Jim, I appreciate you looking at this. You're trying with two catalogues, I'm using two different apps so I wonder if this has a bearing on you not being able to reproduce my problem. You could always get a trial of Photo Mechanic camerabits.com

Before you head off to PM, do you verify what the Metadata Status is showing....i.e. when you make the develop changes in LrC the status should change to state "Has been changed", which should then change again to "Up to Date" when the XMP data has been auto-saved.

No, I don't, or never have! I actually had to go and find those fields in the metadata panel and 'switch' them on. I've never needed to look at these as the data has always just updated automagically.

Over the weekend I'll do an extensive test and report the steps and results. Meanwhile I was on assignment this morning. Fortunately I didn't need bespoke captions so everything came into LrC with metadata, was processed and exported without round tripping to Photo Mechanic. But _all_ my images now report changes were made and I need to import metadata from the disk. Including images I haven't processed. If I synchronise the folder my metadata is all up to date. I'm completely confused...

 

[Jim Wilde]

I wouldn't have thought your use of PM is a specific factor, especially as you say that there are no return issues when you save XMP manually.

I'm interested in the fact that you are reporting metadata conflicts.....the only time you should see that is on the images that are returned from PM before you do the Read Metadata. And that "Read" should resolve the conflict automatically.

Can you select All Photographs in Library then use the Library Filter to filter on Metadata Status and let us know the results. In theory, with Auto Write to XMP enabled in Catalog Settings there should be no conflict until images are "touched" by another application, and then that conflict should clear with your subsequent "Read Metadata". But if you still have conflicts outstanding that might be a pointer towards the issue.

 

[David Gordon]

Can you select All Photographs in Library then use the Library Filter to filter on Metadata Status and let us know the results

Here's a screenshot. Quicker than typing!

 

[Jim Wilde]

From an (admittedly very quick) test, it would seem that when there's a "Conflict Detected" status, auto write does NOT happen when you subsequently apply edits. From that one could speculate that some of the images that you edited, prior to sending them to PM, already had that "Conflict Detected" status, thus XMP was not automatically written for those images. Manually writing XMP WILL update the XMP, but only after a suitably worded warning (which is one of those with a "Don't Show Again" option).

Not saying that's definitely the answer, but maybe something for you to look at over the weekend?

 

[David Gordon]

A final update. TL;DR its fixed.
I've updated all the metadata in LrC, all the conflicts and unknowns and done all the usual housekeeping. Things are back to where they were.
Thanks for all the suggestions, there'a always something new to learn, or old to have forgotten about!

 

[raoulco]

Sorry to be banging the same drum again, but since I upgraded to V.11, every time I do any edits to a file, I get the "Metadata File needs to be updated" warning message in the top right of the thumbnail. Any clues as to why the Metadata isn't updating automatically as it used to before the upgrade?
In my Catalog Settings > Metadata > Automatically write changes into xmp is checked.
(and no, I don't use Photo Mechanic) Thanks in advance.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Did you select another image after you edited this one? The update now takes place when you move to the next image, so if you edit an image and then go back to the grid with the same image still selected, then the update may remain on hold.

 

[David Gordon]

Sorry to be banging the same drum again, but since I upgraded to V.11, every time I do any edits to a file, I get the "Metadata File needs to be updated" warning message in the top right of the thumbnail. Any clues as to why the Metadata isn't updating automatically as it used to before the upgrade?
In my Catalog Settings > Metadata > Automatically write changes into xmp is checked.
(and no, I don't use Photo Mechanic) Thanks in advance.

I'm not sure. Although I said my original problem was solved I'm now seeing unsaved data as well. So far I haven't lost any Develop changes, but for sure the XMP isn't updating the way it either used to or should.

I'm suspicious of the XMP changes and until I hear otherwise am treating it as a bug and proceeding with caution.

 

[raoulco]

Did you select another image after you edited this one? The update now takes place when you move to the next image, so if you edit an image and then go back to the grid with the same image still selected, then the update may remain on hold.

I'm not sure what you mean by "select another image?" I do my editing on one image and then move on to the next one, and the message appears on every image that I edit as I go along...so if I edit 20 or 30 images in a particular folder, the message will appear on all of them

 

[raoulco]

I'm not sure. Although I said my original problem was solved I'm now seeing unsaved data as well. So far I haven't lost any Develop changes, but for sure the XMP isn't updating the way it either used to or should.

I'm suspicious of the XMP changes and until I hear otherwise am treating it as a bug and proceeding with caution.

So if you [Cmd+A] Select All in Library Grid view and click on an 'up arrow' in any one thumbnail it will update the Metadata for all the files. It's not a big deal but it is an extra step and a schlep

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I'm not sure what you mean by "select another image?" I do my editing on one image and then move on to the next one, and the message appears on every image that I edit as I go along...so if I edit 20 or 30 images in a particular folder, the message will appear on all of them

If you move to the next image then you select another image, so that is apparently not the issue.

 

[raoulco]

If you move to the next image then you select another image, so that is apparently not the issue.

Yes, thanks Johan, that isn't the issue...

 

[Victoria Bampton]

Long shots, but what's the file type and where are the files stored?

 

[raoulco]

Long shots, but what's the file type and where are the files stored?

The files are raw .NEF and they're stored on an internal SSD (it's a different ssd to the local ssd > Users > Home > Pictures > Lightroom...)
HOWEVER... I must apologise for wasting everyone's time - as Johan Elzenga mentioned on Thursday, when I move to the next image it does indeed update the Metadata, but it just seemed to be doing it much slower than it did before. Thanks All.