Raw and JPG files

[malcolmsu]

Lightroom Version Number

11.3.1

Operating System

1. Windows 10

My current camera has always been set up to take a Raw and JPG image every shot. I've never really thought through why until recently when I started to struggle a little for disk space on my PC.

I'm thinking now, that there is really no need for the JPG copy (unless someone can convince me otherwise?). I only share photos after processing and exporting to JPG anyway. So that got me thinking that I could get rid of all the unprocessed JPGs where I have a Raw 'copy'.

I've been try to find a way to easily filter these to then delete them. The trouble is some settings on my camera - digital zoom for example - don't capture a Raw file. Is there an Attribute or Metadata item that i could use to filter only those JPG files where there is also a Raw file with the same filename to then allow me remove them from LR and the hard drive?

 

[clee01l]

My current camera has always been set up to take a Raw and JPG image every shot. I've never really thought through why until recently when I started to struggle a little for disk space on my PC.

I'm thinking now, that there is really no need for the JPG copy (unless someone can convince me otherwise?). I only share photos after processing and exporting to JPG anyway. So that got me thinking that I could get rid of all the unprocessed JPGs where I have a Raw 'copy'.

I've been try to find a way to easily filter these to then delete them. The trouble is some settings on my camera - digital zoom for example - don't capture a Raw file. Is there an Attribute or Metadata item that i could use to filter only those JPG files where there is also a Raw file with the same filename to then allow me remove them from LR and the hard drive?

The Camera always shoots in RAW. The RAW data is processed by the tiny image processing software included with the camera and a JPEG produced. If you save only the JPEG, the RAW data is thrown away. If you save only the RAW, a JPEG thumbnail is embedded in the header of the RAW file, In some cameras a full-size JPEG is saved in the RAW file header that is output. If You save RAW+JPEG two files are produced. The Same RAW file that I just described and the JPEG as a separate file.

Initially Lightroom Classic displays the RAW JPEG thumbnail and the RAW image is converted to RGB with some basic processing (Tone, NR, etc.) In the most current releases of LrC, IMO this initial image by LrC from the RAW is as good as the JPEG produced by the camera making the Camera JPEG irrelevant.

When you shoot RAW+JPEG you have two options in LRC. You can import the JPEGs as a separate file or import it as a SideCar file. If you imported as a side car file the JPEG will be in the same Explorer/Finder folder as the RAW file and it will be east to simply delete the JPEG where the RAW files of the same name exist in the folder. You do this outside of LrC. If you imported as separate files and kept them in the same folder, you need to sort by capture date and select the RAW files. In the Grid View the unselected JPEGs will be easy to ID and delete from LrC


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[malcolmsu]

When you shoot RAW+JPEG you have two options in LRC. You can import the JPEGs as a separate file or import it as a SideCar file. If you imported as a side car file the JPEG will be in the same Explorer/Finder folder as the RAW file and it will be east to simply delete the JPEG where the RAW files of the same name exist in the folder. You do this outside of LrC. If you imported as separate files and kept them in the same folder, you need to sort by capture date and select the RAW files. In the Grid View the unselected JPEGs will be easy to ID and delete from LrC

Sorry, can I ask another question of the back of that. SideCar files are the .XMP files? I thought they held metadata and details of raw file edits, etc? I have the option to Automatically write changes into XMP turned off . So these details will be in my catalog?

Or have I misunderstood?

I imported my photos with the option "Treat JPEG files next to raw files a separate photos " unticked so that means I should have SideCar / XMP files?

So to eliminate the JPEG files, I'm going to have do as you described manually outside of LrC? Do I then have to do anything in LrC? Re-sync? I ask as I was always told never manipulate the imported files outside of LrC, always move, rename, etc from within LrC.

If I haven't made any edits on the photos yet can i aslo delete the XMP files then?

Apologies for so many questions...

 

[Califdan]

You may want to look at this blog I created in 2018 for your situation.

https://www.danhartfordphoto.com/blog/2018/7/lr010-lr-classic-how-to-remove-redundant-jpgs

 

[clee01l]

…SideCar files are the .XMP files? I thought they held metadata and details of raw file edits, etc? I have the option to Automatically write changes into XMP turned off . So these details will be in my catalog?

Or have I misunderstood?

A Side Car file is ANY file that is related to the imported image file. XMP is a common example for Proprietary RAW files. So are JPEGs imported as RAW+JPEG files not treated as separate files. Sound files (MP3) are another example of a side car file.

XMP files are a copy of part of the Metadata stored in the catalog when the option to Automatically write is turned on. XMP metadata can be written to JPEGS,TIFFs, DNGs but only as a sidecar to proprietary RAW formats.

Since these JPEGs are not considered Sidecar file and appear long side the RAW partner. You can delete then from Finder/Explorer and they will show in the catalog as Missing. You would then need to delete the missing JPEGs manually in Lightroom Classic. If you use the grid view and select RAW files then the adjacent JPEG partners can then be. Seen, highlighted and Deleted in Lightroom Classic.

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[malcolmsu]

You may want to look at this blog I created in 2018 for your situation.

https://www.danhartfordphoto.com/blog/2018/7/lr010-lr-classic-how-to-remove-redundant-jpgs

OMG! Did you write that blog just for me?!That is so on point and so helpful. Thank you.

 

[malcolmsu]

A Side Car file is ANY file that is related to the imported image file. XMP is a common example for Proprietary RAW files. So are JPEGs imported as RAW+JPEG files not treated as separate files. Sound files (MP3) are another example of a side car file.

XMP files are a copy of part of the Metadata stored in the catalog when the option to Automatically write is turned on. XMP metadata can be written to JPEGS,TIFFs, DNGs but only as a sidecar to proprietary RAW formats.

Since these JPEGs are not considered Sidecar file and appear long side the RAW partner. You can delete then from Finder/Explorer and they will show in the catalog as Missing. You would then need to delete the missing JPEGs manually in Lightroom Classic. If you use the grid view and select RAW files then the adjacent JPEG partners can then be. Seen, highlighted and Deleted in Lightroom Classic.

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Thank you. Threads like this make me realise that although I've used LR for years I still have so much to learn!

 

[malcolmsu]

Normally I take some photos, I import them into LR and I publish or share them just a handful of times a year after holidays or breaks but this past couple of weeks I've had some enforced time at home following a bout of covid.

When I fired up LR and started to appreciate all the new masking tools that have appeared since I last properly used it I thought I was starting again from scratch. However blogs like Julieanne Kost's, videos from Terry White and of course forums and info on lightroomqueen.com have all helped tremendously. Thank you.

I hope as I slip back into work mode that there might not be such significant enhancements the next time I come to use it!

 

[Califdan]

OMG! Did you write that blog just for me?!That is so on point and so helpful. Thank you.

Of course I did. After dinner one night in 2018 a fortune cookie told me that you'd be asking about this in 2022, so I went ahead and wrote the blog just for you . Seriosly, I do recall that someone else on this forum in 2018 asked about getting rid to the JPG's from RAW+JPG pairs. Of course we helped the person through a series of posts but we really can't go to the level of detail and different scenarios in the forum posts as can be addressed in a lengthier blog. I figured that person was not the only one arriving at this desire to clean out the redundant JPG's so I worte the blog. It's hard to tell how many people have benefited from my analysis and strategy but hopefully many have. If you found benefit from reading it, I'd greatly appreciate it if you could add a comment at the bottom of my blog.

Thanks -- Dan

 

[AlanF]

Shooting raw + jpg potentially has the benefit of allowing raw and jpg files to be saved on separate cards in-camera. That might just save the day if one card fails or is lost in the field, but it does not mean that you necessarily need to import both raw and jpg into LrC or even into your computer. The jpg files might also let you preview images on a relatively weak computer in the field, or a motel room, before you can hit it with the heavy duty software back at home. This, in turn, might reveal the need to re-shoot a scene before you move on from there.

Having an in-camera jpg might also be handy if you are having trouble with editing your raw file, and you need to see what your camera could achieve - even though it will not reveal how it did so.

However, I'll admit that while I always try to produce raw and jpg files in-camera, I generally only import raw files into LrC. Therefore, there is no burden on my computer storage or computer performance.

BTW, I have actually had cards fail.

 

[malcolmsu]

You may want to look at this blog I created in 2018 for your situation.

https://www.danhartfordphoto.com/blog/2018/7/lr010-lr-classic-how-to-remove-redundant-jpgs

So I've been successfully working my way through my most recent folders eliminating 'redundant' jpgs but I've come across a folder that I don't understand what's going on. I potentially could just find and delete them manually without following Dan's excellent instructions but I'd love to figure out why it's not working in this instance.

The folder in question has a mix of photos from my camera and from my mobile phone (a Samsung).

The camera files all fell into 'case 1' and were easy to deal with.

Mostly on my mobile I was shooting in Pro mode, creating dng and jpg files but I also have some heic and some jpgs without an attached raw file.

Filtering on camera model there's 330 Samsung photos. If I filter on dng it shows 147. If I filter on jpg it shows 160. The gap being some heic and some tiff files edited externally.

However if I filter as:

"Any searchable field" -- "Contains all" -- "dng jpg" that brings back zero photos.

Why did that method work for my camera but not my mobile phone?

 

[AlanF]

Malcolm, I expect that "Contains All" should instead be "Contains". It is unlikely that any standard field would contain both "dng" and "jpg", which is what "Contains All" is looking for.

While you're doing such searches, be aware that stacked images are treated differently. Image files within a collapsed stack will not be included in the search, except perhaps the primary image in the stack, whereas the same files in an expanded stack will all be included in the search.

 

[malcolmsu]

It is unlikely that any standard field would contain both "dng" and "jpg", which is what "Contains All" is looking for.

If "Treat JPEG files next to raw files as separate photos" was not ticked then would that not be true?