Photosmart 6510e - Black ink fading almost to brown

[Chris_M]

[FINAL UPDATE] Photosmart 6510e - Black ink fading almost to brown

HP Photosmart 6510 e All-in-one.

I got the above printer about a week ago, it is printing documents and color documents just fine.

HOWEVER, I only just had time today to test out the REAL reason I bought it, photo prints.

Using original 10x15cm HP Advanced Photo Paper and the supplied original HP Ink cartridges,
when I print a photo on any quality settings, it looks fine when it comes out of the printer, BUT,
after about 60 seconds when it's dried, the blacks look almost brown, that is, it looks faded.

I've gone through 50 prints now, trying all kinds of various settings, NOTHING has helped.
There were VERY minor differences, but none come even close to the original picture.
The original picture is untouched by me, and was selected purely for the purpose of this test,
so the problem is nothing I did to the picture. With prints on normal paper, the black is just fine.
After running a series of tests, and using up 50 pages of 10x15's and all the yellow and cyan ink,
the best results (the ones in the third thumbnail) I got were with the settings in thumbnail 1 below.



Keep in mind, I am using all original HP supplies and hardware, and the original picture is untouched by me.

Is this ink immediately turning brownish/fading a known problem, does anyone know a fix for it,
or will I have to return the printer and get a different one?
I've googled this for about an hour last night, and cannot find anything relevant.

Because, as said, photo prints (up to A4 size) are the main reason I bought this printer, and I DO like the printer,
but if it can't print a decent black on photoprints, then it's useless to me.

 

[Japanguy]

I too have an HP 6000 series all in one. I would also say the ink is probably the culprit.

 

[Chris_M]

No reply on HP's own forums as yet, and the people where I purchased it, a local HP Partner,
are not back at work yet, as of this evening anyways.

The odd thing here is, I am using original HP ink, and original HP Advance Photopaper, yet I get those results.
My last printer, a HP Photosmart D5460, I used an external CISS with it, this one (click to view),
and as you can see, it was NOT original HP ink, although I was using original HP Paper,
from the same batch I still have and used for the new printer actually, and I got extremely close to perfect lab quality prints.

So, figure that one oout if you can, because I certainly don't get it!
You'd think using all originals would be best, but nooooooo, not a chance.

Actually, I'm thinking, if when these people get back to work and I call, if they don't get the situation rapidly resolved,
I'll give back the 6510e, and losing wireless functionality, just order a new HP Photosmart D5460.
At least I know that printer works...


[EDIT]
Damn, looks like the D5460 model is no longer to be had anywhere...

 

[clee01l]

Chris,
What Color Management options are you selecting in the Print Module and in the HP Print SetUp Properties. The Brown you see in the Black might be magenta introduced. A "Black" print does not use just balck ink. All 4 color cartridges are used to produce "Black". In the "Print Quality Diagnostic Report", is your Black band acceptable black or do you see it as Brown? The Image shack 2reports.jpg looks black to me. If you see it as black, then the problem is probably going to be resolved by using the correct Color Profile.

One other question, What are you comparing the printed image to see the brown colors blacks. If you are comparing to the monitor, Is it calibrated. Can your calibration tool also calibrate your printer?
Have you searched for an ICC color Profile for your HP Advanced Photo Paper?

 

[Chris_M]

Cletus, I don't have a calibration tool, I am going by eye with known colors, I had my monitor and the old printer pretty much in harmony,
what I saw on-screen, is what the printer produced.

Currently I can't afford one of those calibration tools, and have been asking around to borrow or even rent one, with no luck so far.

The black problem is not only in LR, it's with every program I can print a photo with, that was a part of the series of 50+ test prints I did.
I fell back on that picture in the example just in case it WAS something I did to the photos, which I'm pretty sure I didn't.

As I said in the first post, ANYTHING I print on normal paper, including that test pic, that has black in it, shows up just fine, as it's supposed to.
The only problem with the normal paper is the streaks that appear ONLY when printing a photo, on all other documents,
including as you can see the somewhat graphical diagnostic report, there are NO streaks whatsoever.

Also, the black going brown/faded, ONLY happens when I print a photo on photo paper, it's not the paper either,
as I used the same paper on my old photosmart with no problems, and also during the test prints,
I used the sample photo paper that was actually supplied with the printer, with the exact same results.

In fact, the more I think about it, considering the streaks on normal paper when trying to print a photo on it, and the brown/fade on photo paper,
the more I think it my be the printers photo-printing module/capability/whatever-you-wanna-call-it is broken/gone bad.

 

[clee01l]

Without a properly calibrated monitor, you are spinning your wheels. No two monitors come from the factory calibrated the same. What you see as black on a monitor that is capable of producing only the colors RED, GREEN BLUE has no relationship to what gets printed with Black Magenta Yellow and Cyan. Both the color monitor and the printer need ICC Color Profiles to produce a standard color pallette. If you don't have a monitor calibration tool you can set your color profile to sRGB Beat Gossweiler is putting together a post on this for Tips and Tricks. Since it is not published, I'll copy it in the next post to this thread. To continue here, I need to ask this question again.

What Color Management options are you selecting in the Print Module and in the HP Print SetUp Properties.

 

[clee01l]

[h=2]How to assign an sRGB ICC Profile to your monitor (Windows) (from Beat Gossweiler)[/h]

Sometimes you might want to assign an sRGB ICC Profile to your monitor to verify whether a display problem is caused by a corrupt monitor profile. Lightroom is “good” in detecting problems in a monitor profile, it sometimes shows a problem with a monitor profile while other (even color-managed) applications still work OK. Possible symptoms of a corrupt monitor profile include (but are not limited to):

• Color casts
• No image displayed (gray boxes)

Assigning an sRGB ICC Profile does not solve the problem (see 5, "Permanent Solution" at the bottom of this article), but it establishes a known environment in order to “prove” the problem lies with the monitor profile.


1) Windows 7/Vista:
To assign an sRGB ICC Profile to your monitor in Windows7/Vista, follow these steps:

• Open Color Management by clicking the Start button, typing color management in the search box, and choose Color Management:
  
  

• A window like the following will come up:
  
  
  • Click the Devices tab
  • From the Device list, select your monitor entry. In case you are not sure about which monitor to choose, press "Identify monitors". This will display a large number on your displays for identification.
  • Select the Use my settings for this device check box
  • Make a note of the currently active ICC Profile (the one marked "default")
  • Click Add ...

• In the upcoming Associate Color Profile dialog box, click sRGB IEC61966-2.1 in the list, and then click OK:
  
  
  • If you see more than one sRGB IEC61966-2.1 in the list as in the screen shot above, chose the sRGB Color Space Profile.icm profile.

• Back in the Color Management dialog, click the newly added sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile and click Set as Default Profile:
  
  

• The sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile will now be used as the default profile for your monitor:
  
  

• Click Close

2) Windows XP
To assign an sRGB ICC Profile to your monitor in Windows XP, follow these steps:

• Right-click on your DeskTop and choose Properties

• In the Display Properties dialog, choose the Settings tab and click Advanced:
  
  

• A window like the following will come up:
  
  
  • Choose the the Color Management tab

• In the Color Management dialog:
  
  
  • Make a note of the currently active ICC Profile (the one under Default monitor profile)
  • Click Add …

• In the upcoming Add Profile Association dialog box, click sRGB Color Space Profile.icm in the list, and then click Add:
  
  

• Back in the Color Management dialog, click the newly added sRGB Color Space Profile and click Set As Default:
  
  

• Click OK

If you are using more than one monitor under Windows XP and you want to be able to assign different monitor profiles to each monitor, you have to download and install the Microsoft Color Control Panel Applet for Windows XP from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en....aspx?id=12714



3) Restart Lightroom

After the sRGB ICC Profile has been assigned to your monitor, you have to restart Lightroom for the changes to take effect.


4) To revert back to the previously assigned monitor profile

If assigning an sRGB ICC Profile to your monitor did not “resolve” your problems, you can revert back to the previously assigned profile by following these steps:

• Enter color management again
• Select the ICC Profile which had “Default” assigned to it before the change
• Click Set Default Profile
• Click Close/OK

5) Permanent Resolution

If your monitor problems seem resolved after assigning an sRGB ICC Profile to your monitor, this merely proves that your problems lie with the monitor profile and that your monitor profile mostprobably is corrupt.

The sRGB profile is not a solution though, because it is a working space, not a device profile. With the sRGB profile installed, all of your color-managed applications may look the same, but they're all equally wrong. Only by installing a proper monitor profile can you get everything the same and right.

To permanently solve your problem, you need to install a new ICC Profile for your monitor, which matches the characteristics of your monitor.

To do so, you preferably calibrate/profile your monitor using a a hardware colorimeter or photospectrometer and its associated software. Google for “i1 Display”, “colormunki display” or "Spyder 3" just to name a few of them.​

Last edited by b_gossweiler; 21 Dec 2011 at 5:17 pm.​

Beat Gossweiler

Canon 1Ds MkII | Canon 5D MkII | CANON EF 24-105mm F/4.0 L IS | CANON EF 100-400mm F/4.5-5.6L IS | CANON EF 100mm F/2.8 Makro
HP Color Laserjet CP3505X
​

 

[Chris_M]

Cletus, I have the same Color Management Profile applied to all 3 of the relevant devices,
selected in the print dialog AND in Lightrooms print module, I did a couple more test prints,
1 with ICM on - "Managed by Printer", 1 with ICM off, no change in the prints, black is still all messed up.

Screenshot:

 

[clee01l]

Adobe RGB is not the same color profile as sRGB. Your monitor is showing the profile for Adobe RGB not sRGB as Beat has recommended. Here is a Ken Rockwell article on Adobe RGB vs sRGB http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm
Here is also an HP Link that you might find useful:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&docname=c00286904#N331
When you chose Managed by Printer, what color management was the printer using?
If you go into printer settings on the LR menu you should arrive at a screen that looks something like this:

What Color Management settings do you find?

I don't know where these ICC Profiles came from (they either came with my printer or I D/L them from the HP site) but these are HP Paper color profiles that I have installed on my computer. I would think one of these should be your choice for either letting LR color manage your print or selected in the Advanced panel of your printer Settings.

 

[Chris_M]

Sorry, I should have made the screenshot more specific, the window seen in the bottom-right under the LR panel, is the printers "Advanced" dialog.
The printer was set to 'Adobe RGB (1998) D65 WP 2.2 Gamma', and my advanced setup only gives the choice of that or 'ColorSmart/sRGB'.

I cannot find any 'HP Advanced Photo Paper' ICC Profiles on the HP website, either that, or I'm using the wrong search terms.
Also, I cannot do any more testing as of now, my magenta cartridge is dead, so I have to wait until I get a new one.

This means I have now gone through 60+ prints, and a complete set of cartridges, and still haven't gotten a decent photoprint.

 

[clee01l]

I cannot find any 'HP Advanced Photo Paper' ICC Profiles on the HP website, either that, or I'm using the wrong search terms.

I can't find them either or I would have posted the link. I am convinced that the solution is going to be using the right color profile for your paper/printer. And probably let LR manage your color profile rather than the print driver.

Here's something to try: Import this Macbeth Color chart into LR and try printing it using various color profiles and at least one sRGB monitor and printer profile combination
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gretag-Macbeth_ColorChecker.jpg

 

[Chris_M]

Odd, I got notice of a reply, but when I get here, no reply. Go figure.

Anyways, a follow-up on topic matter:
I spent 49 minutes on the phone this evening talking to HP Support, I explained the problem and told them all the things I tried.
The support tech guy said try printing from an SD Card or USB Stick directly, which never occured to me, because I have never done so before.
So I did, however, the results were the same as above.

He said he didn't think it was a profile problem, because it's wireless, and I tried printing directly from an SD Card that was directly plugged in to the printer, thus bypassing any connection/profile problems.

So that's about 75 prints and 1.5 sets of ink cartridges used up between 2 computers in an attempt to get a decent print.
I should have thought of the card thing after the first few prints that didn't work, I would have saved a bundle on ink, and a load of photopaper.

The end result of aforementioned 49-minute phone call to support is, I am getting a new printer from them.
Should be here on Tuesday, so when it arrives, I'll test it straight away, and report back here what happens.

 

[Chris_M]

Follow-up post:

I recieved the replacement printer today, tried 4 prints direct from an SD, and packed the printer back up in it's box.
If anything, the replacement is even worse than the first printer, not to mention the state it arrived in.

Spent another 30 minutes on the phone, and am getting another replacement next Tuesday,
and was told if the problem is still there with the next replacement, I will need to talk to thier Exceptions Team.
They will then discuss and authorize an alternative solution, although I was not told anything about what that solution might be.

I must say, I am not confident that the new one will be any different.

 

[aussie82]

Are you using the ink that ships with the printer? i.e. introductory cartridges. The reason I ask is that sometimes those can sit in the box for a long time. I work at HP and will ask some of the engineers that specialize in ink what they think. If I find out anything useful I will post it here.

 

[Chris_M]

On the first printer, I used and went completely through the setup cartridges, and then bought a new set that I couldn't afford.
I made sure the inks I bought were within the 'use by' date, same results.

Then I tried to use those cartridges on the replacement they sent, but it insisted that I insert the setup cartridges.
I did so, and this time printed direct from the SD right away, instead of going through installing the drivers and printing from my computer.
And as I stated, if anything, the print quality was even worse than the first one, this time even printing the diagnostic report brought up some nasty streaks in the black, and also this time, even the blacks on plain paper were faded-looking.

I don't think the replacement was a 'new' printer, it arrived in a plain brown box, no cables etc. and a couple of holes punched in the box (transport damage I assume), but I checked and made sure the holes were not near anything on the printer that could get damaged.
It seems to me that the replacement I got was nothing more than a refurbished printer.

Too bad nobody has the HP Photosmart D5460 in stock, that's what I used to have, and got great results with it.

 

[Chris_M]

Well, the end of this story goes as follows:

After recieving the THIRD printer from HP, and it still not working, the exceptions/complaints team at HP suport offered me a free upgrade from the 6510e to a HP Photosmart eStation, which cost 50 - 60 euro more than the 6510e.

As soon as it arrived, I unpacked it, hooked everything up, installed the software,
loaded up some advance photo paper, and hit print from Lightroom's Print Module.

And lookit that, almost perfect print right away without any tweaking on the drivers.
So I reckon that the problem was, as I suspected, not a profile issue, but something to do with the ink or paper.
The 6510e had 4 ink tanks, the eStation has 5, including a Photo Black, same as my previous Photosmart.
I'm 99.9% sure it was something to do with that, perhaps the combination of the 4 color inks and the paper.

The paper I am using on the eStation is from the SAME batch that I used with the 6510e, so it can't be the paper.

Anyways, the upside of the deal, aside from the fact that I now have a printer worthy of the job I have to finish,
but am now also the owner of a 7-inch Touch-Screen Pad running Android.

HP calls it Zeen, and attaches it to the front of the Printer saying it's a control panel,
but I say, I don't need a control panel, so now I use it as a mini (insert i-or-whatever-you-want-to-call-it here)Pad.

And thus endeth the final update in this saga...!

 

[Victoria Bampton]

Yippee!!!! Thanks for the update Chris.