Performance issues

[thegios]

Lightroom Version

12.1

Operating System

1. Windows 11

I am running Lightroom Classic (latest version 12.1) on this laptop with Windows 11 (it's a huge Dell gaming laptop):

• i7 7700 HQ with one passive and two active dissipators
• 32GB RAM DDR4
• Nvidia GTX 1050Ti 4GB GDDR5 (fully hardware supported by LrC, with latest studio drivers always updated)
• 512GB SSD PCIe NVMe (with more than half free)
• external BenQ 2K monitor (I don't use laptop's monitor)

Catalog, cache (20GB) and 1:1 previews (generated at import) are all in the same folder on the internal SSD.

RAWs are on external RAID connected to laptop via USB 3.0.

RAWs are from EOS 300D, 40D, 7D Mk II and R.

Sync with cloud, face detection etc are all turned off.

When using masks it all becomes very slow:

• moving sliders (either for the mask only or for global adjustments) is painfully low: changes do not happen in real time, I need to release the slider and wait a few seconds (I can see the wheel spinning) to see the results
• if I want to use a brush (either as a new mask or to add/subtract from an existing one) it stutters, it's not smooth enough and I end up with zig-zag lines instead of the curves I draw

I thought it was a resource utilization problem but when the above happens:

• both the external and interna drives are barely used
• the GPU is used at max 15%
• RAM used is max 12GB of the 32GB available
• CPU instead is used a lot

Although it's not a late generation processor, I still believe it's a very decent configuration that should run LrC smoothly.

 

[thegios]

Catalog is less than 600 photos.

 

[johnrellis]

Please do the LR menu command Help > System Info and copy/paste the entire contents here so we can see exactly which versions of hardware and software LR thinks you're running.

 

[thegios]

Please do the LR menu command Help > System Info and copy/paste the entire contents here so we can see exactly which versions of hardware and software LR thinks you're running.

Lightroom Classic version: 12.1 [ 202212072312-d7ab524b ]
License: Creative Cloud
Language setting: en
Operating system: Windows 10 - Home Premium Edition
Version: 10.0.22000
Application architecture: x64
System architecture: x64
Logical processor count: 8
Processor speed: 2,8GHz
SqLite Version: 3.36.0
CPU Utilisation: 1,0%
Built-in memory: 32634,1 MB
Dedicated GPU memory used by Lightroom: 102,2MB / 4019,0MB (2%)
Real memory available to Lightroom: 32634,1 MB
Real memory used by Lightroom: 852,0 MB (2,6%)
Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 875,9 MB
GDI objects count: 660
USER objects count: 2597
Process handles count: 2020
Memory cache size: 0,0MB
Internal Camera Raw version: 15.1 [ 1329 ]
Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5
Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX,AVX2
Camera Raw virtual memory: 0MB / 16317MB (0%)
Camera Raw real memory: 0MB / 32634MB (0%)
System DPI setting: 96 DPI
Desktop composition enabled: Yes
Standard Preview Size: 1920 pixels
Displays: 1) 1920x1080
Input types: Multitouch: No, Integrated touch: No, Integrated pen: No, External touch: No, External pen: No, Keyboard: No

Graphics Processor Info:
DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti (31.0.15.1694)
Init State: GPU for Image Processing supported by default
User Preference: GPU for Image Processing Enabled

Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic
Library Path: C:\Users\giova\Pictures\0 - Lightroom Catalog\Lightroom Catalog TheGios v12.lrcat
Settings Folder: C:\Users\giova\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom

Installed Plugins:
1) AdobeStock
2) Flickr
3) Nikon Tether Plugin

Config.lua flags: None

 

[johnrellis]

As next troubleshooting steps:

1. Try unchecking Preferences > Performance > Use Graphics Processor > Use GPU For Image Processing. Then try settings Use Graphics Processor To Off.

2. The current graphics driver is about two months old, and Nvidia.com shows a new one released last week:
https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/198362/en-us/

Likely not the cause, but easy to try.

3. Try the latest Game Ready Driver. Though Nvidia claims the Studio drivers are "optimized" for creative apps like LR, there isn't any evidence that they've ever made a difference for LR users, but again, easy to try.

 

[thegios]

As next troubleshooting steps:

1. Try unchecking Preferences > Performance > Use Graphics Processor > Use GPU For Image Processing. Then try settings Use Graphics Processor To Off.

2. The current graphics driver is about two months old, and Nvidia.com shows a new one released last week:
https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/198362/en-us/

Likely not the cause, but easy to try.

3. Try the latest Game Ready Driver. Though Nvidia claims the Studio drivers are "optimized" for creative apps like LR, there isn't any evidence that they've ever made a difference for LR users, but again,

I have fully reinstalled drivers, just to s tart from a clean situation.
After installing new drivers, in NVIIA EXPERIENCE I have optimized for LrC (it detected two apps: LrC and a videoplayer), then in NVIDIA CNTROL PANEL I forced use of GPU for Lightroom.

In LrC I had 3 option: OFF, AUTO and CUSTOM.
Both AUTO and CUSTOM provide full support

I have opened an EOS R RAW of 50MB, changed some sliders, added face mask with some editing, added sky mask with some editing, then added a radial mask and simply increased luminosity: with graphic processor OFF moving the radial mask was a pain, in AUTO or CUSTOM all was smooth.

I will see what happens in the nxt days and will report here.

 

[BobT]

Is your BIOS up to date?

 

[thegios]

Is your BIOS up to date?

Yes

BTW, I am a sw engineer working with PCs snce 1988, so I tend to always keep PC up to date and free of useless stuff

 

[BobT]

Yes

BTW, I am a sw engineer working with PCs snce 1988, so I tend to always keep PC up to date and free of useless stuff

Sorry, I wasn't being critical. It's just that it hasn't been mentioned and it's something we tend to avoid, for good reason, unless it's necessary.

 

[GregJ]

You know what you are doing, and that laptop should (well maybe sort of if you ask me) handle LR OK and not drag like that. Well, it would have a year ago.

That CPU is 6 years old and so likely is that laptop. I personally believe LR struggles these days with old laptops, and it's not just the new masking stuff. I can't prove it, but all you have to do is read this Board and the computer forums and you will believe it. I think there are a lot of reasons for this and some of them make me happy because it means that Adobe is finally optimizing the program for the latest capabilities and there are some powerful new features that require a lot of processing power.

Go ahead and update to Windows 11 and just for the Hell of it run Norton Utilities and CCleaner. You probably already did from the way you sound....

You have some of your (too small) half TB boot SSD free (over half) so try this. Copy about 20 raw files to a folder on your desktop and the boot drive. Then go into the development module and start doing your thing and see if it still drags. That gets you off that spinning external rust and that RAID mess and lets you see if things improve by working directly on the internal SSD.

Export some full-size jpegs at 95% quality and see if the CPU is working hard and so is the GPU. My CPU cranks at about 50% while the GPU jumps around at 20 to 60% and that is a heavy task for LR.
Then select about 25 raw files and create 1:1 previews and see if the CPU maxes out which it should. No GPU usage there. That old CPU should be on fire at 100%. You can fry eggs on it doing those previews.

But this probably won't help - just help you see if the external raid rust is the problem, or maybe the old USB cable that you should replace. But that is probably not it. But believe me when I say it often is the root of many a computer problem these days.

I think there is one thing that would help, but I'm not gonna say what that is because it is probably not what you want to hear and everybody gets mad at me when I say it. But you know. I know you know.

I hope you can get it running OK again. Maybe it's is a setting glitch and a guru will find it, but with your experience level on LR and computers? I don't think so.

Pick up that big old Dell 6-year-old laptop and stand in front of the mirror with it. Tell me what you see.

But I hope you can get another year with that baby and LR. Maybe you can.

 

[thegios]

Sorry, I wasn't being critical. It's just that it hasn't been mentioned and it's something we tend to avoid, for good reason, unless it's necessary.

Didn't take it as a negative question, don't worry: just wanted to clarify that I know what I'm doing and oc is kept in order regularly.

 

[Gnits]

I had a very bad experience with a fully specified Dell laptop, including internal graphics card, thunderbolt port, max memory and best ssd, etc... approx 2-3 years ago.
I found the performance of the Thunderbolt port to be sub par and had a distinct impression that Dell did not know how to properly handle Thunderbolt through put.
I also discovered that while the graphics card was installed, Dell had configured the system not to allow Lr or Photoshop to use the Graphics card, on the basis they were not 'proper' graphics applications.

I could go on with a long list. The bottom line is Dell agreed to refund me in full. My take is that the specs were designed to catch the buyer looking for high specs, but the device was not engineered internally to cater for the workload, especially i/o of lots of large raw files or psds.

This was a failed (expensive) experiment to try and use a high spec laptop instead of a well specified desktop.

Footnote.
I then built a very high spec Windows rig, with really fast M2 drives, etc. Decided to store my images on a Thunderbolt enclosure. My motherboard had native support for Thunderbolt 3. I found out that at (too frequent) intervals my system would just pause and I could hear my Thunderbolt disk enclosure becoming active (as if a big copy was in progress, I suspect internal housekeeping). I eventually decommissioned my Thunderbolt enclosure and transferred all my images to an internal spinning disk. Normal, stable operations resumed , and I do not have to listen to the external drive disks spin or fans wind up.

My take on this..... I am not sure if using external drives with their own built in o/s (eg raid, nas, disk enclosure) are really a good option, unless installed to commercial specs in server environments and professionally managed. I think using these as an external device to a laptop increases the risk of internal data bottlenecks. I suspect the emerging family of external M2 ssd drives may be a more reliable option, less complicated, but constrained by a limit on max capacity. I am sure evolving generations of hardware, such as Mac M2 based architecture, will eliminate these issues, but it is too expensive for me to keep experimenting in this space.

I am saddened by the non evolution of the Sata standard and can only assume we need to wait for M2 style disks to become larger and the basis for larger storage configurations.

 

[thegios]

You know what you are doing, and that laptop should (well maybe sort of if you ask me) handle LR OK and not drag like that. Well, it would have a year ago.

Indeed latest updatres have made LrC more demanding...

That CPU is 6 years old and so likely is that laptop. I personally believe LR struggles these days with old laptops, and it's not just the new masking stuff.

I have problems only with masks, trust me...

I can't prove it, but all you have to do is read this Board and the computer forums and you will believe it. I think there are a lot of reasons for this and some of them make me happy because it means that Adobe is finally optimizing the program for the latest capabilities and there are some powerful new features that require a lot of processing power.

Never had big problems with amsks in the past, and I agree that creating a mask with new AI is demanding, and I can live with a minute to get a face mask, but once mask is created all should go smooth.

Go ahead and update to Windows 11 and just for the Hell of it run Norton Utilities and CCleaner. You probably already did from the way you sound....

I'm already on Win 11 and PC is clean of virus and other rubbish.

You have some of your (too small) half TB boot SSD free (over half) so try this.

Why too small? I keep on it only LrC and office + a couple of apps, LrC cache is 20GB and catalog, I am left with more than 200GB free.

Copy about 20 raw files to a folder on your desktop and the boot drive. Then go into the development module and start doing your thing and see if it still drags. That gets you off that spinning external rust and that RAID mess and lets you see if things improve by working directly on the internal SSD.

I have already done this. Actually, since I edit only one photo at a time, my workflow is:
- import the image in the catalog from ext HD, generating 1:1 previews while importing
- form LrC, rename the file by appending "_EDIT" at the end of the file name (this allows me to identify from file explorer the pics I really don't need to lose), move the file from ext HD to internal SSD (in a dedicated fler, this keeps the file in the catalog), edit the file, export and move the file back into the ext HD. This means that editing is done from SSD and not from ext HD. Still sometimes LrC struggles.
In any case, also working from ext HD (which is not a rust: it's an expensive 2 bay RAID with two very fast 4TB disks conneceted with USB 3,0 cable, cable that is in good condition) by looking at resource usage, as I wrote in the OT

• both the external and internal drives are barely used: this means that the whole image is all in memory
• the GPU is used at max 15%: this means tha GPU is indeed used (the internal one is at 0%)
• RAM used is max 12GB of the 32GB available: this proves that the whole image is in memory and tehres still enough left
• CPU instead is used a lot, but never at max and never throttles

Export some full-size jpegs at 95% quality and see if the CPU is working hard and so is the GPU. My CPU cranks at about 50% while the GPU jumps around at 20 to 60% and that is a heavy task for LR.

I export one image at a time after long editing, I do not care if it takes a little longer than usual. Exporting performance are not important to me.

Then select about 25 raw files and create 1:1 previews and see if the CPU maxes out which it should. No GPU usage there. That old CPU should be on fire at 100%. You can fry eggs on it doing those previews.

As I said, I generate 1:1 previews at import, if it takes a little longer here also I don't care.

But this probably won't help - just help you see if the external raid rust is the problem, or maybe the old USB cable that you should replace. But that is probably not it. But believe me when I say it often is the root of many a computer problem these days.

See above my comments on the RAID system.

I think there is one thing that would help, but I'm not gonna say what that is because it is probably not what you want to hear and everybody gets mad at me when I say it. But you know. I know you know.

I am planning to buy a new desktop of course, but in order to buy proper gear, sine I don't wanna overhoot buying the most expensive processor or GPU, I firs need to understand what's the weak point of my PC.

 

[thegios]

I had a very bad experience with a fully specified Dell laptop, including internal graphics card, thunderbolt port, max memory and best ssd, etc... approx 2-3 years ago.
I found the performance of the Thunderbolt port to be sub par and had a distinct impression that Dell did not know how to properly handle Thunderbolt through put.

My laptop has no thunderbolt, but I start having doubts on its USB 3.0 ports now :-D

I also discovered that while the graphics card was installed, Dell had configured the system not to allow Lr or Photoshop to use the Graphics card, on the basis they were not 'proper' graphics applications.

Yeah, laptops are a pain when they have two GPUs, cos by default you never know which one is being used for what...
I had already set, via NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL, to use extrernal GPU for LrC and configured the GPU properly in LrC as well, but as I wrote I went thru reinstalling drivers from scratch again: removed NVIDIA SW and drivers, rebootted, reinstalled NVIDIA SW and drivers, reset GPU to be used for LrC in NVIDIA control panel and reconfigured in LrC the GPU.

I can tell the difefrence now when GPU accelleration is on/off: with three masks, adding a new radial mask with GPU acceleration off moving the radial mask is a pain, when ON all is smooth.

Maybe that was the problem, I will let you know.

I could go on with a long list. The bottom line is Dell agreed to refund me in full. My take is that the specs were designed to catch the buyer looking for high specs, but the device was not engineered internally to cater for the workload, especially i/o of lots of large raw files or psds.

This was a failed (expensive) experiment to try and use a high spec laptop instead of a well specified desktop.

Footnote.
I then built a very high spec Windows rig, with really fast M2 drives, etc. Decided to store my images on a Thunderbolt enclosure. My motherboard had native support for Thunderbolt 3. I found out that at (too frequent) intervals my system would just pause and I could hear my Thunderbolt disk enclosure becoming active (as if a big copy was in progress, I suspect internal housekeeping). I eventually decommissioned my Thunderbolt enclosure and transferred all my images to an internal spinning disk. Normal, stable operations resumed , and I do not have to listen to the external drive disks spin or fans wind up.

Now that I recall: when opening Windows File Explorer and pointing to the external RAID, generating the previews in file explorer takes a really long time... I know that a RAID is slower than a single disk, but the RAID is used only for long term storage. I can tell (see my comment above) that when editng the image the ext and int drives are barely being used and only 16GB or RAM out of 32 is being used, this should mean that the whole image is in memory.

My take on this..... I am not sure if using external drives with their own built in o/s (eg raid, nas, disk enclosure) are really a good option, unless installed to commercial specs in server environments and professionally managed. I think using these as an external device to a laptop increases the risk of internal data bottlenecks. I suspect the emerging family of external M2 ssd drives may be a more reliable option, less complicated, but constrained by a limit on max capacity. I am sure evolving generations of hardware, such as Mac M2 based architecture, will eliminate these issues, but it is too expensive for me to keep experimenting in this space.

As I said, I use the ext drive only for storage, typically I edit one image at a time and I move it temporarily on internal SSD for editing.

 

[GregJ]

Indeed latest updatres have made LrC more demanding...

I have problems only with masks, trust me...

Never had big problems with amsks in the past, and I agree that creating a mask with new AI is demanding, and I can live with a minute to get a face mask, but once mask is created all should go smooth.

I'm already on Win 11 and PC is clean of virus and other rubbish.

Why too small? I keep on it only LrC and office + a couple of apps, LrC cache is 20GB and catalog, I am left with more than 200GB free.

I have already done this. Actually, since I edit only one photo at a time, my workflow is:
- import the image in the catalog from ext HD, generating 1:1 previews while importing
- form LrC, rename the file by appending "_EDIT" at the end of the file name (this allows me to identify from file explorer the pics I really don't need to lose), move the file from ext HD to internal SSD (in a dedicated fler, this keeps the file in the catalog), edit the file, export and move the file back into the ext HD. This means that editing is done from SSD and not from ext HD. Still sometimes LrC struggles.
In any case, also working from ext HD (which is not a rust: it's an expensive 2 bay RAID with two very fast 4TB disks conneceted with USB 3,0 cable, cable that is in good condition) by looking at resource usage, as I wrote in the OT

• both the external and internal drives are barely used: this means that the whole image is all in memory
• the GPU is used at max 15%: this means tha GPU is indeed used (the internal one is at 0%)
• RAM used is max 12GB of the 32GB available: this proves that the whole image is in memory and tehres still enough left
• CPU instead is used a lot, but never at max and never throttles

I export one image at a time after long editing, I do not care if it takes a little longer than usual. Exporting performance are not important to me.

As I said, I generate 1:1 previews at import, if it takes a little longer here also I don't care.

See above my comments on the RAID system.

I am planning to buy a new desktop of course, but in order to buy proper gear, sine I don't wanna overhoot buying the most expensive processor or GPU, I firs need to understand what's the weak point of my PC.

I like your response and you know what you are doing, which is not true for 90% of the people who post this kind of problem on this forum, which these days is quite often (like almost every day as computers get older and LR gets more powerful). I asked you to do the simple export and preview generation experiment because it is a great way to get a feel for overall system performance and see of the laptop can even handle that sort of task without mega stress or doing something way out of the ordinary. You should try it. I do it sometimes just to check me system. In fact, I just selected a hunderd 200 MB GFX raw files and exported full size 95% quality jpegs and exported them to an internal (on the Motherboard) mounted M.2 PCIe 4 SSD and compared it to exporting them to an external spinning rust drive. Then I checked my system to kinda get a feel for things.
But I understand your work-flow and you can do what you need to do. But still, you go out and shoot 150 images and import them to LR and build 1:1 previews.... While those previews are building you aint doing nothing else on that machine except wait. It maxes it out. or should. Same with exporting a bunch of big jpegs. I chuckle when once a week someone comes on here complaining about their rig slowing to a crawl while those actions are executing and that they can't do simultaneous editing work in LR. That's not you, I'm just saying....
So you are about to build or buy a new desktop? Good. So am I. I'm going absolute insane top-end everything. When I finish it will be the fastest gaming rig in Texas. But I don't game. But you of course don't have to do that. You can buy or build a really nice mid-level desktop that will eat LR for breakfast and have zero of the problems you now face. If you want to talk about components, PM me.
Get Maximum PC and look at the back at their mid-range build. That machine will run LR and PS like it is a game of solitaire.
Oh and that half TB boot SSD comment I made? Those are a problem for lots of reasons in lots of laptops. 1 TB min is the rule these days. When you get your new rig, make it 2. Trust me.

 

[GregJ]

As I said, I use the ext drive only for storage, typically I edit one image at a time and I move it temporarily on internal SSD for editing.

Not a good practice in my opinion. Importing the raw to the internal boot SSD for editing sounds good, but then you have to (inside LR) move it to the external spinning rust Raid pan of scrambled eggs for storage and then back it up, while removing it from the boot SSD. Lots of room for error and you aren't gaining much speed really in terms of editing that one file one at a time.

 

[thegios]

I like your response and you know what you are doing, which is not true for 90% of the people who post this kind of problem on this forum, which these days is quite often (like almost every day as computers get older and LR gets more powerful). I asked you to do the simple export and preview generation experiment because it is a great way to get a feel for overall system performance and see of the laptop can even handle that sort of task without mega stress or doing something way out of the ordinary. You should try it. I do it sometimes just to check me system. In fact, I just selected a hunderd 200 MB GFX raw files and exported full size 95% quality jpegs and exported them to an internal (on the Motherboard) mounted M.2 PCIe 4 SSD and compared it to exporting them to an external spinning rust drive. Then I checked my system to kinda get a feel for things.

But i will try It's just that I gotta wait for the w/e to find some time. Consider the laptop has a 4K monitor that stresses LrC even more, so usually I use an external 2K 27" monitor to edit, keeping laptop lid closed, and during the week I have attached to the ext monitor the office laptop: I am too lazy to swap everything at the end of the day so I'll test on the w/e

But I understand your work-flow and you can do what you need to do. But still, you go out and shoot 150 images and import them to LR and build 1:1 previews....

Before importing I cull images on SSD with Fast Raw Viewer, masrk those for deletion, delete them, move them on ect RAID and then I open LrC and add to catalog only the one(s) I need to edit, generating 1;1 previews. Sometimes I edit images as old as 5 eyars :-D

While those previews are building you aint doing nothing else on that machine except wait. It maxes it out. or should. Same with exporting a bunch of big jpegs. I chuckle when once a week someone comes on here complaining about their rig slowing to a crawl while those actions are executing and that they can't do simultaneous editing work in LR. That's not you, I'm just saying....

Sure I understand, but luckily that's not me :-D

So you are about to build or buy a new desktop? Good. So am I. I'm going absolute insane top-end everything. When I finish it will be the fastest gaming rig in Texas. But I don't game. But you of course don't have to do that. You can buy or build a really nice mid-level desktop that will eat LR for breakfast and have zero of the problems you now face. If you want to talk about components, PM me.

I want and have to, but I have just bought an RF 70-200 f2.8 and we're planning a scuba diving holiday in Bali with wife, so I'm trying to postpone this as much as possible :-D

Not gonna buy an i9 or ryzen equivalent, probably i7, not sure if itel or amd. Mid GPU is good enough, I don't play games.
Don't need much more besides 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD + BT and WiFi and card reader.

Get Maximum PC and look at the back at their mid-range build. That machine will run LR and PS like it is a game of solitaire.
Oh and that half TB boot SSD comment I made? Those are a problem for lots of reasons in lots of laptops. 1 TB min is the rule these days. When you get your new rig, make it 2. Trust me.

 

[thegios]

Not a good practice in my opinion. Importing the raw to the internal boot SSD for editing sounds good, but then you have to (inside LR) move it to the external spinning rust Raid pan of scrambled eggs for storage and then back it up, while removing it from the boot SSD. Lots of room for error and you aren't gaining much speed really in terms of editing that one file one at a time.

If you do this in LrC once the file is in the catalog, it's all automatic.
In any case you are right, not much improvement, so most oftne than not I am editing from ext RAID :-D

 

[BobT]

Not a good practice in my opinion. Importing the raw to the internal boot SSD for editing sounds good, but then you have to (inside LR) move it to the external spinning rust Raid pan of scrambled eggs for storage and then back it up, while removing it from the boot SSD. Lots of room for error and you aren't gaining much speed really in terms of editing that one file one at a time.

"...Raid pan of scrambled eggs..." love it! I no longer use an external drive. With cloud storage, there seems little point.