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Organizing, and different versions of images

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chicojoe

New Member
Premium Classic Member
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Jun 23, 2020
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3
Lightroom Version Number
Lightroom Classic version: 9.3 [ 202005281810-476e492c ]
Operating System
  1. macOS 10.14 Mojave
Hello all! I'm new to the forum and trying to get organized in LR. Thank you in advance for the assistance!

For any image, it seems like I may have three different kinds of file....
  1. The original file of a photograph (which may or may not have LR edits)
  2. A layered .TIF I created in Photoshop (in case I want to make future adjustments)
  3. One or more files I've output for printing (so if Lab A sends me back a print that's "off"-- let's say, too dark-- I can quickly see what I sent them and adjust)
It's important to me that I can easily pull up all versions of any particular image. But I'm not clear on the best way to use all the available tools-- collections, keywords, etc-- to get this. For instance, if I wanted to organize "The best pictures I took in Spain," whether I should create a Collection that includes all these variants of the files, or just the original, or just the working .TIF?

There must be people here doing something similar. I'd really appreciate your insights.

Thanks again!

Joe
Boise, ID
 
Use the Hard Drive Publish service instead of Export. It will manage your exports as related to the source file managed in Lightroom Classic. It does not catalog the export but rather maps the Publish folder and relates that image to the source file.
With my PS edits, I name the TIFF file with the source (RAW) file name plus a PS Edt appended. This file is cataloged with Lightroom and optionally stacked with the source file.
I pick a file from my publish service. By its folder and name I know exactly why and where it was published. In the develop history there is a Publish date.
In the Published Service, I can see the source file and know the original Lightroom Folder and trace it back to the original file that came off of the camera card now backed up. If the source file was a PS derivative, I can find the original source file that came from the camera.
My file naming is simple.
I use the original in camera file name and this becomes a part of the derivative file name

So if Z70_2667.NEF is my RAW file imported from my Nikon camera,
Z70_2667 gets edited in PS and the derivative file is named Z70_2667.{CopyName if a Virtual Copy}_PS-Edt_2667.TIF
If I publish the published derivative becomes Z70_2667—{Copy name}—LR.JPG Or Z70_2667.{CopyName if a Virtual Copy}_PS-Edt_2667—{Copy name}—LR.JPG. This lets me see the process trail from Import to Lightroom to PS to Publish.
When I use Lightroom Classic's Print Module I embed the Source Filename in the margin as a 6 pt "Z70_2667" in the PrintInfo check box.
 
I think you're asking two questions.

1) keeping different iterations or treatments of the same original image straight. I use the same basic concept as Clee but in order to keep heritage of images straight I use a form of version numbers for this. The original capture (edited in LR or not) is an implied V1. If there is a new derivative that is a physical file (e.g. coming back from PS), the file name gets a "Vn" appended (eg IMG-1234 V3.tif). In addition for each of these derivative images I use the "copy name" field to identify it's version number, the version it was created from and why (e.g. "V4=V2+B&W Silver Efx" to indicate that this is version 4 which was version 2 that got converted to B&W in Nik Silver Efx . If I want to split off a new treatment within the confines of LR, I create a VC and set the copy name the same as I would for a new physical derivative tile Here's an example:

  • IMG-1234.CR2 (original from camera). Implied V1.
  • I Make LRc edits to image (sill implied V1)
  • Decide to have a B&W version in LR in addition to my color version. Create a VC and set the "copy name" to V2=V1+B&W
  • Send B&W version to PS for some edit. When it comes back rename the file to "IMG-1234 V3.Tif and set copy name to "V3 = V2+New sky in PS)
  • Decide to use PS to content aware away some tourists on color version of image which was V1. Upon return from PS, rename file IMG-1234 V4.Tif" and copy name to "V4=V1+clone out people"
  • etc
  • As I go, if I create a VC or derivative file, I will also many times create a "Snapshot" when I create the VC or new image file. I keep the date (not the time) on the snapshot name but then append something like "Created V4 from V1 here"
2) finding images and all their derivatives

All the physical images files have the same base file name so filtering for IMG-1234 will find them all. All should have the same (or mostly the same) keywords for searching. Of course if one derivative is B&W then it would have a keyword for "B&W" that the color versions would not have.
 
Thank you both for your answers. There's a lot to unpack there, but it sounds like you're both using a "core" file name to link differing versions, and additions to that core name to show differences, where it diverged, and workflow stage. It sounds like this could get me what I want without collections.

One thing that's been a challenge for me is I do a lot of editing in Photoshop, then Export from there or Save As. When I sync folders in Lightroom, these other versions show up, and I've puzzled over how/where to file them. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds like you both pull your file back into Lightroom after editing in Photoshop, and then publish from Lightroom if you need something to print, post, send to friend.

When you do that, are you getting the version with layers back into Lightroom? I had some experiences where I lost work, because I wound up with just a flattened edited file in Lightroom. It may have been because of some mistake I made, but that's what led me to using Photoshop to save layered .TIFs and other versions (different aspect ratios, or "down-res" versions.) I didn't trust Lightroom-- or rather, myself using Lightroom-- and that's how I made a mess.

OK, back to it. Thanks again. I've got a lot more reading and exploring to do. I appreciate your help.
 
Ours is a LR centered workflow. In other words, LR is like the conductor of the orchestra and tools like Photoshop or Nik collection are members of the band so to speak. What this means is we let LR control all our images (I may be taking liberty speaking for Clee but I think he thinks similarly).

So, when I need to edit an image in PS, I open the image in LR and then use "Edit in" tool in LR to send it to PS. This creates the derivative copy (tiff or PSD in my case), launches PS, and opens the image in PS. When I'm done editing in PS I DON'T do a save as, I just close the window and PS asks if I want to save my changes and I tell it yes. Then the changed PSD or Tiff shows up automatically in LR stacked withe the original. In my case I used PSD and it retains any layers when it comes back to LR so if I then resend it back to PS for further edits, I still have layers.

However I do need to check what happens if I do more edits in LR of the Layered PSD (I usually don't do that as I do my PS work last).
 
Every file I import to Lr keeps the original number, but gets a project number and unique number.
The project number tells me immediately what folder to look for the image. All derivates retain the stub of original number, project number and unique number. Round trips to Photoshop get PS added to the name and stay in the same folder as the source. All exports go into sub folders, with folder names such as web, email, print, etc. If exporting for a client then they go into a sub folder with the client name. If multiple clients from the same project then they all have their own sub folder.

If I want to use image x in a new project, then I create a new project folder with a new project number. Then apply same rules as above.

if I do a search using the u ique number, then I find every version of the image, what projects it is used in and the sub folders tell me what it was used for.

Exporting to sub folders also allows me to find quickly the active images in a folder with say hundreds of images. I explore the subfolders rather than the main folder, get the unique number and then find that number in the main folder if I want to go back to the source image.

This works so well for me that I have not found the need to use the Publish feature described above. Maybe the Publish option is better and maybe some day I will explore that further.

I add a unique number to the filename because the camera number can be duplicated for lots of reasons, incl multiple cameras, processing other peoples images, camera resets counter or card stores numbers greater than 9999 and goes back to 0001.

Probably no perfect system.

Final detail. I have an app which validates a card before I import it. It checks if I have a raw file for every jpg and or a jpg for every raw. If I have a raw for every jpg I can confidently import only the raw files, leaving the jpgs behind, reducing by 50% the number of files in my catalog and my folders. If I discover I have jpgs but no raw files with the same name I make sure to also import those jpgs.

Because I do this regularly for every import, I find anomalies where I am missing either raw files or jpgs. Raw files might be missing simply because I told the camera to only shoot jpg. An extreme exception, but happens some times. If I mistakenly turn the mode dial to P, it sometimes only shoots Jpg, no raws. I find this out when I get home, not in the field. However I found multiple times where the camera locked up on me that often..... there is a gap in the sequence of the camera file number , which may mean I have lost images in the field..... and sometimes a raw or jpg file is simply missing.
 
Every file I import to Lr keeps the original number, but gets a project number and unique number.
The project number tells me immediately what folder to look for the image. All derivates retain the stub of original number, project number and unique number. Round trips to Photoshop get PS added to the name and stay in the same folder as the source. All exports go into sub folders, with folder names such as web, email, print, etc. If exporting for a client then they go into a sub folder with the client name. If multiple clients from the same project then they all have their own sub folder.

If I want to use image x in a new project, then I create a new project folder with a new project number. Then apply same rules as above.

if I do a search using the u ique number, then I find every version of the image, what projects it is used in and the sub folders tell me what it was used for.

Exporting to sub folders also allows me to find quickly the active images in a folder with say hundreds of images. I explore the subfolders rather than the main folder, get the unique number and then find that number in the main folder if I want to go back to the source image.

This works so well for me that I have not found the need to use the Publish feature described above. Maybe the Publish option is better and maybe some day I will explore that further.

I add a unique number to the filename because the camera number can be duplicated for lots of reasons, incl multiple cameras, processing other peoples images, camera resets counter or card stores numbers greater than 9999 and goes back to 0001.

Probably no perfect system.

Final detail. I have an app which validates a card before I import it. It checks if I have a raw file for every jpg and or a jpg for every raw. If I have a raw for every jpg I can confidently import only the raw files, leaving the jpgs behind, reducing by 50% the number of files in my catalog and my folders. If I discover I have jpgs but no raw files with the same name I make sure to also import those jpgs.

Because I do this regularly for every import, I find anomalies where I am missing either raw files or jpgs. Raw files might be missing simply because I told the camera to only shoot jpg. An extreme exception, but happens some times. If I mistakenly turn the mode dial to P, it sometimes only shoots Jpg, no raws. I find this out when I get home, not in the field. However I found multiple times where the camera locked up on me that often..... there is a gap in the sequence of the camera file number , which may mean I have lost images in the field..... and sometimes a raw or jpg file is simply missing.

Thank you Gnits- that's really helpful!
 
A picture paints a 1000 words.... Here is a screen grab from my travel laptop.

1592995593677.png

1. Shows my list of project folders. Each project gets the next sequence number, so is always in chronological sequence. I add a description which I will recognise to the folder name (Client Name, Location, etc)
2. This shows the list of files.
3. Is a breakdown of the coding system for the image number.

This happens to be on my laptop. I have an identical folder/file structure on my workstation. At the end of a trip or a project I just export the folder as a catalog from my laptop and import this catalog and its images to my main catalog on my workstation, except it will go into a sub folder
by year (eg All_MoB_Photos/2020/01070_EastPier).

There is no perfect system.... just clarifying what works for me.
 
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