OFF TOPIC - AI Generated code in Camera Club Competitions?

[Califdan]

Lightroom Version

12.4

Operating System

1. Windows 10

Hi,

Just a quick, unscientific, poll.

I'm digital chair for our local (Palo Alto, CA) camera club and like most camera clubs the debate over AI Generated content in competitions is in full swing. Just as back up I'd like to get a sense of how other clubs are dealing with this pressing issue. For reference we've decided to not allow AI generated Content but to allow AI assisted selections, Noise reduciton, sharpening and pixel dimension enlargement along with "content aware" type tools (which sort of stradle the AI vs non-AI line). The general concept is that all visible content must come from the makers own photographs or artwork.

So, for those that don't mind and are in a camera club can you plese post your club's stance on this?

1. Does your club allow AI generated content?
   
   
2. Does your club allow AI generated selections, noIse redution, Sharpening, and the like?
   
   
3. Does your club allow Content Aware fill/remove?
   
   
4. Does your club have periodic categories, special themes or special competitions where AI generated content is either required or permitted?
   
   
5. What Country, State or provice, and City is your club in?

Thanks -- Dan

 

[Jimmsp]

Hi,

Just a quick, unscientific, poll.

I'm digital chair for our local (Palo Alto, CA) camera club and like most camera clubs the debate over AI Generated content in competitions is in full swing. Just as back up I'd like to get a sense of how other clubs are dealing with this pressing issue. For reference we've decided to not allow AI generated Content but to allow AI assisted selections, Noise reduciton, sharpening and pixel dimension enlargement along with "content aware" type tools (which sort of stradle the AI vs non-AI line). The general concept is that all visible content must come from the makers own photographs or artwork.

So, for those that don't mind and are in a camera club can you plese post your club's stance on this?

1. Does your club allow AI generated content?
   
   
2. Does your club allow AI generated selections, noIse redution, Sharpening, and the like?
   
   
3. Does your club allow Content Aware fill/remove?
   
   
4. Does your club have periodic categories, special themes or special competitions where AI generated content is either required or permitted?
   
   
5. What Country, State or provice, and City is your club in?

Thanks -- Dan

1. Our club currently has 2 competions. One we call a monthly contest, and one we call a quarterly challenge. Neither allows AI generated content. We call ourselves a Photography Club, not a Camera Club.
2. Yes - both the contest and the challenge allow AI noise reduction and sharpening. The monthly contest only allows global editing. Local editing is permitted in the challenge.
3. Content aware fill/remove can be used in the challenge. It cannot be used in the contest.
4. No - not at this time. I don't expect it will happen in the next few years.
5. My club is in the US, AZ , city of Green Valley. We are in a retirement community, 55 and older. Our membership spans the entire range of experience and expertise.

 

[clee01l]

1. Does your club allow AI generated content?

Contest rules are very strict on what is permitted. Cropping, Blemish Removal and Basic edits are allowed only.

1. Does your club allow AI generated selections, noIse redution, Sharpening, and the like?
   
   
2. Does your club allow Content Aware fill/remove?

We have a special category for those modified photos

1. Does your club have periodic categories, special themes or special competitions where AI generated content is either required or permitted?

Only the special category which permits Photoshop Edits.

1. What Country, State or provice, and City is your club in?

Houston Texas.

 

[Jimmsp]

Hi,

Just a quick, unscientific, poll.

I'm digital chair for our local (Palo Alto, CA) camera club and like most camera clubs the debate over AI Generated content in competitions is in full swing. .....

I find it hard to believe that there are only 3 of us here who are camera or photo club members.

 

[clee01l]

I find it hard to believe that there are only 3 of us here who are camera or photo club members.

Two. I was competition chair for my club some years ago. I no longer participate in club activities.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

1. Does your club allow AI generated content?
   No. Not for 'Competitive' entries. We try to follow closely to rules from the Photographic Society of Queensland which also relies heavily on rules by the Photographic Society of America.
   And see Statement on AI here-
   https://psa-photo.org/page/division-definitions
   
   
2. Does your club allow AI generated selections, noise reduction, Sharpening, and the like?
   Yes. (Actions akin to Dodging and Burning that have always existed since the invention of 'photography'.)
   
   
3. Does your club allow Content Aware fill/remove?
   Yes. Except for 'Nature' subjects that must conform to strict guidelines
   https://www.psq.org.au/uploads/9/2/9/2/92924276/nd-judges-guide.pdf
   
   
4. Does your club have periodic categories, special themes or special competitions where AI generated content is either required or permitted?
   No. (It might come in the future, but I won't be supporting it.)
   
   
5. What Country, State or province, and City is your club in?
   Queensland Australia.
   
   https://bundaberg.myphotoclub.com.au/
   

 

[BobT]

I find it hard to believe that there are only 3 of us here who are camera or photo club members.

I joined once but couldn't bring myself to turn up.

 

[Jimmsp]

I joined once but couldn't bring myself to turn up.

 

[PhilBurton]

So I live in a city with a club that even incorporates the city's name. I've lived in this city for 40 years, but I have never been able to bring myself to join the club, let alone attend an event.

So what are the pro's and con's of joining a club and attending events? I'm NOT trolling here. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Paul_DS256]

So what are the pro's and con's of joining a club

It depends on the club.

The positives on the club I currently belong to are:

• Meet other photographers and share information
• Presentations on various topics by experts
• Evaluation groups where you can present and gain constructive criticism on your image. You also critique others images. This has been the best aspect.
• Competitions to challenge oneself outside of your normal genre

Negatives:

• Competition assign numeric values on various aspects of image. The adage is every judge is right and every judge is wrong. In honesty, it really is the only way 3 or more judges can determine standings with large number of submissions. These are all voluteers.
• The competition guidelines can allow too much editing and IMHO change the photo into digital art.

Many clubs have trial memberships, free one night and/or pay for special presentations. Worth looking into.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

Meet other photographers and share information- YES
Presentations on various topics by experts- YES
Evaluation groups where you can present and gain constructive criticism on your image. You also critique others images.- YES.
Competitions to challenge oneself outside of your normal genre- YES

Add-
Excursions to locations that suit photography, on a day or full weekend (Camping or overnight stays.).
Practical workshops to discuss equipment (Camera controls) and techniques.
A Library of information (Books, Digital, Calibration devices to loan, etc)

In my 51 years of local Club Membership I have seen many 'Beginners' come to be professional level, and some actually start working as Professionals, 'fast tracked' by their Club involvement. I have seen absolute beginners improve to win Gold Awards at International Competitions.

To be a 'good' Club member, and enjoy a Club, there has to be 'Give and Take' - You both learn, and you teach others, by being involved. Sitting back and expecting to be lectured is not what Clubs are, (or should be), about.

Many years ago, Clubs were "Exclusive". You had to own an 'Expensive' camera to be a Club member. A Box Brownie just did not 'cut the mustard'. So Clubs catered for only the few. Hopefully that sentiment has long gone and today any imaging device (eg. phones, iPads) enables us to be photographic artists.
And editing our own images (not AI images) is part of the 'Art'. -As is moulding clay, or applying paint.

Critiquing (or judging) any photo will always be 'subjective' - You like it or you don't. There are always diverse opinions expressed, for any type of 'art'. A 'good' judge should be always constructive with comments, and endeavor to not show any personal bias when critiquing images.

In Queensland (Oz), membership in Clubs is staying strong, with several interclub functions happening each year, and one major 4-day Conference.
Don't struggle with your photography- Join a Club!

ps. I publish a small PDF document each month for my Club- Trying to be informative! Attached-

 

[LRList001]

Our club has just tightened up the rules to disallow AI generated material. This was always the case, though not so explicitly stated. We require all source imagery to have been taken by the photographer (and to have been post-processed by the photographer too). We do allow composites if the source material meets these rules. Time will tell how enforceable these rules will be. The base point is that this is a photography club, not a computer image club. We expect the starting point to be some kind of camera. The area we are debating is AI based sharpening and noise reduction. Currently this is allowed on the basis that the source material is supplied by the photographer, the AI element is in training the algorithm on how to process different aspects of each image.

Currently, content aware editing is permitted. In fact, several judges have suggested an image would be improved by using such techniques, usually to increase the size of an image (ie move the main subject away from the edge to give a better 'frame'). This opens a further area for debate as the tools become ever more capable.
I myself prefer rules such as used for news images, where the deletion of any element is not permitted, though creative cropping certainly is, and removing dust bunnies is also permitted (as is removing awkward, embarrassing bloopers). We expect spots and other 'irritations' to be toned down. Portraits pretty much expect some kind of blemish reduction these days and those tools are getting pretty powerful.

 

[LRList001]

Our club has just tightened up the rules to disallow AI generated material. This was always the case, though not so explicitly stated. We require all source imagery to have been taken by the photographer (and to have been post-processed by the photographer too). We do allow composites if the source material meets these rules. Time will tell how enforceable these rules will be. The base point is that this is a photography club, not a computer image club. We expect the starting point to be some kind of camera. The area we are debating is AI based sharpening and noise reduction. Currently this is allowed on the basis that the source material is supplied by the photographer, the AI element is in training the algorithm on how to process different aspects of each image.

Currently, content aware editing is permitted. In fact, several judges have suggested an image would be improved by using such techniques, usually to increase the size of an image (ie move the main subject away from the edge to give a better 'frame'). This opens a further area for debate as the tools become ever more capable.
I myself prefer rules such as used for news images, where the deletion of any element is not permitted, though creative cropping certainly is, and removing dust bunnies is also permitted (as is removing awkward, embarrassing bloopers). We expect spots and other 'irritations' to be toned down. Portraits pretty much expect some kind of blemish reduction these days and those tools are getting pretty powerful.

Having run off the 10 min time limit.

Where there is another debate is modern post processing. The fact is, youth of today are taking vast numbers of images and post processing them in ways that would fall foul of our club rules. This is making the traditional photography club look ever more dated.

 

[Jimmsp]

Where there is another debate is modern post processing. The fact is, youth of today are taking vast numbers of images and post processing them in ways that would fall foul of our club rules. This is making the traditional photography club look ever more dated.

Are you referring to primarily smart phone photography where filters of various varieties are used in the post processing work, mostly exclusively? Some of these filters will add elements to the original photo.

 

[PhilBurton]

I myself prefer rules such as used for news images, where the deletion of any element is not permitted, though creative cropping certainly is, and removing dust bunnies is also permitted (as is removing awkward, embarrassing bloopers). We expect spots and other 'irritations' to be toned down. Portraits pretty much expect some kind of blemish reduction these days and those tools are getting pretty powerful.

Agree,certainly for photos that form a historical record. Taking out power lines, changing the sky, changes the photo to computer art.

I suspect that most of the populace won't agree with me. Certainly not Instagrammers.

 

[LRList001]

Are you referring to primarily smart phone photography where filters of various varieties are used in the post processing work, mostly exclusively? Some of these filters will add elements to the original photo.

Yes. The addition of these images/icons/graphics/etc. are not permitted by our club's rules because they are not the original photographer's work. However, this is the new reality and we (the traditional photography club) will die out (eventually) as we age and fail to attract younger members unless either:

* We gain enough people interested in 'traditional' standards (ie 'old guard photography') to keep up the numbers
* We learn how to embrace this new reality.

The good news is a huge number of images are being taken, so it seems unlikely that cameras/picture taking is about to go out of fashion.

 

[PhilBurton]

Yes. The addition of these images/icons/graphics/etc. are not permitted by our club's rules because they are not the original photographer's work. However, this is the new reality and we (the traditional photography club) will die out (eventually) as we age and fail to attract younger members unless either:

* We gain enough people interested in 'traditional' standards (ie 'old guard photography') to keep up the numbers
* We learn how to embrace this new reality.

Probably a bit of both.

Much as I like great image quality and large file sizes, I've also "embraced" the reality that I can't always bring my bulky DLSR with me all the time, but my iPhone fits into my pocket quite easily and I always take it with me when I leave the house.

And if I need just a "quick and dirty" photo, it's easier to do an iPhone photo and then email it to someone. Much easier than transferring image files to Lightroom, doing some edits and then exporting JPGs.

The good news is a huge number of images are being taken, so it seems unlikely that cameras/picture taking is about to go out of fashion.

One can only hope so.

 

[clee01l]

And if I need just a "quick and dirty" photo, it's easier to do an iPhone photo and then email it to someone. Much easier than transferring image files to Lightroom, doing some edits and then exporting JPGs.

I have yet to find a place where my Bulky DSLR and my iPadPro running Lightroom can't be with me all the time. Lightroom imports to my iPadPro produces all of the quick and dirty photos that I need while traveling.

I'm leaving for a couple of weeks for a trip to visit Ireland. Several Years ago, my DSLR was traded for a mirrorless full frame camera. It is slightly smaller than my Nikon DSLR but the lenses are not. In an effort to 'pack light', I am struggling to eliminate lenses. I have decided to leave the 200-400 at home and trying to decide if I can get by with one lens (70-180) or do I need to take the 24-70 along too. My camera bag is a ThinkTank on wheels that was carry-on size but restriction are now applying. I have trimmed that down to a fanny pack that will hold one camera with lens, a spare battery, CF Express cards and a USB-C card reader. With my fanny pack qualifying as my purse and my smaller carry-on holding my iPadPro, I am ready to fly.

 

[PhilBurton]

I have yet to find a place where my Bulky DSLR and my iPadPro running Lightroom can't be with me all the time.

Maybe your spouse is more "flexible" about this question than my spouse. Also I am still using my now ancient D3, which is pretty big and bulky. I'm about to (finally) upgrade to a mirrorless Nikon full frame body, but I will get the smaller Z8 rather than the D3 scale D9.

 

[clee01l]

Maybe your spouse is more "flexible" about this question than my spouse.

We have "Hers", "Mine" and "Ours", budgets. I do not have to negotiate the "Mine" budget and She does not need to negotiate the "Hers" budget.

 

[PhilBurton]

We have "Hers", "Mine" and "Ours", budgets. I do not have to negotiate the "Mine" budget and She does not need to negotiate the "Hers" budget.

We do roughly the same. However, when I want to go someplace with my Porsche Cayman (bought used) I always have to negotiate that. I really prefer the Porsche to her "sedate" Toyota Camry, but she prefers the Camry's softer ride.