Noise in jpeg, coming from raw files in LR

[ilcas7]

Lightroom Version Number

Lightroom CC 2015

Operating System

1. Windows 10

I have a full frame DSLR camera, canon 6D. When I shoot in very high ISO in JPEG (even 10000) the noise is not so intense. But when I shoot in RAW and then I convert to JPEG, even though the detail and luminosity is better, the noise is a lot. I have tried many combinations of the sharpening / noise reduction settings but the converted jpeg files are very noisy. It's strange that sometimes when I increase sharpening amount the image becomes more noisy!
Any suggestions for noise reduction and sharpening settings?

 

[clee01l]

Welcome to the forum. Unprocessed RAW files (if you could see a RAW file with no processing applied) would be flat, toneless and somewhat noisy. All RAW files need too be processed to be usable. JPEGs are RAW files that have been processed by the time processing engine inside the Camera operating system. When the JPEG is created in the Camera, the Camera first captures the image as RAW data. This RAW data is converted to RGB and processing of this RGB data applies Tone adjustments, sharpening, noise reduction. This is what you see as JPEG that comes out of the camera. This RAW file from the camera is converted to RGB by the Adobe Camera RAW processing LR. Then LR applies basic Tone adjustments, sharpening, noise reduction etc.
High ISO images are always noisier than normal ISO images. The in camera JPEGs use a higher degree of noise reduction in their processing than the basic NR applied when LR converts the RAW to RGB and applies minimal Tone adjustments, sharpening etc. It is necessary for you to use post processing functions to enhance the image and increase the NR function in LR Develop module to achieve or improve on the NR implemented by the in Camera JPEG post processor.

 

[Hoggy]

It's strange that sometimes when I increase sharpening amount the image becomes more noisy!
Any suggestions for noise reduction and sharpening settings?

This part actually isn't strange at all - and is actually 100% expected, as sharpening will sharpen noise as well. It basically works by detecting edges, and noise is many edges. The trick is to do a balancing act between NR and sharpening. And pay particular attention to the detail and especially masking sliders in the sharpening area. If you hold down 'ALT' why moving any of the sliders, you will see an alternate image of what the slider will be adjusting . For instance, if you hold down ALT why adjusting the masking, you will see which edges that the sharpening will be working on. For the masking, you want to make sure that the sharpening is only being applied to the details you want to be enhanced (the white area when holding down ALT).

It can be a delicate balancing act between the NR and sharpening sliders - and you will go back and forth many times. You will have to make a decision on which image details are the most important to you, and which are not. And don't forget that there are sharpening and NR sliders for the local adjustments! You may prefer to take an approch of doing a general global adjustment that gets most of the image close to where you want it, and go over any specific areas of concern with the local adjustments (likely the adjustment brush).
Just note that the sliders in the local adjustment take their cues from the other settings in the global area (detail, masking, etc) - the ones in the local adjustment area only equate to the 'Amount' sliders from the global area.

 

[ilcas7]

Welcome to the forum. Unprocessed RAW files (if you could see a RAW file with no processing applied) would be flat, toneless and somewhat noisy. All RAW files need too be processed to be usable. JPEGs are RAW files that have been processed by the time processing engine inside the Camera operating system. When the JPEG is created in the Camera, the Camera first captures the image as RAW data. This RAW data is converted to RGB and processing of this RGB data applies Tone adjustments, sharpening, noise reduction. This is what you see as JPEG that comes out of the camera. This RAW file from the camera is converted to RGB by the Adobe Camera RAW processing LR. Then LR applies basic Tone adjustments, sharpening, noise reduction etc.
High ISO images are always noisier than normal ISO images. The in camera JPEGs use a higher degree of noise reduction in their processing than the basic NR applied when LR converts the RAW to RGB and applies minimal Tone adjustments, sharpening etc. It is necessary for you to use post processing functions to enhance the image and increase the NR function in LR Develop module to achieve or improve on the NR implemented by the in Camera JPEG post processor.

Thank you for your response. Yes, I use the NR function in LR Develop module but even when I move NR luminance and NR color slider to the maximum values, there is still noise on the photo, so I wonder if I should also change the other parameters (contrast, detail, smoothness).

 

[ilcas7]

The trick is to do a balancing act between NR and sharpening. .

Thanks for your response. In photos with ISO until 6400 I can do a balancing act between NR and sharpening. But still in photos with ISO 10000 or 12800 the JPEG that is produced from the camera has almost no noise and the JPEG that comes from RAW has a lot of noise. Any suggestions for this balancing between NR and sharpening in high ISO photos? I mean should I try high NR lumincance values, color values, etc ...

 

[Zenon]

Sharpening will increase any existing noise. Well I have an old example I sometimes post from my 7D2 and 12,800 . These are the basics of how to use the sliders. It doesn't include using the Masking slider which is important as it masks out unwanted background sharpening that just increases noise.

Image 1. Turn off Color and Luminance.
Image 2. LR defaults Color to 25 but increase until the blotchiness goes away. There is no gain to adding more and you can start to change the colors.
Image 3. Increase Luminance to taste. The higher you the more you effect detail.
Image 4. Final product. It aslo depends on the size you view or print.

 

[Hoggy]

Thanks for your response. In photos with ISO until 6400 I can do a balancing act between NR and sharpening. But still in photos with ISO 10000 or 12800 the JPEG that is produced from the camera has almost no noise and the JPEG that comes from RAW has a lot of noise. Any suggestions for this balancing between NR and sharpening in high ISO photos? I mean should I try high NR luminance values, color values, etc ...

You would want to go with high luminance noise reductions - and try lower luminance-detail, as well. The luminance-contrast slider is said by Jeff Schewe to bring back the plasticy look of aggressive luminance settings - YMMV with it though. Also follow Zenon's advice as well.

 

[Zenon]

Yes I pushed luminance a little hard in my example. Again to taste depending on what you are doing with it. That was in 2009 and a guy I worked with asked me to take a few shots of his son. An F4 lens and I was maxed out at 1/500 even at 12,800. That night I learned what a fast lens was. I still had motion blur in the feet and hands. However since that night I have never been afraid of high ISO.