Nikon Z-series built-in lens profiles

[JML]

Lightroom Version Number

10.1.1

Operating System

1. Windows 10

When they came out with the Z-series (mirrorless) lenses, Nikon chose to embed the lens profile in each image. In Lightroom, this shows as "built-in" and it can be disabled, but not replaced manually, that profile is not available in the drop-down box. This seems to be the case only for some lenses, I have others where the built-in profile can be manually selected, see attached image. 24-70 f/4 vs 24-70 f/2.8

Is there a way to control the built-in profiles and does anybody know why some lenses have manual profiles, others do not? I assume this is an Adobe issue, because people tell me that other software provides profiles.

 

[Hua Ming]

When they came out with the Z-series (mirrorless) lenses, Nikon chose to embed the lens profile in each image. In Lightroom, this shows as "built-in" and it can be disabled, but not replaced manually, that profile is not available in the drop-down box. This seems to be the case only for some lenses, I have others where the built-in profile can be manually selected, see attached image. 24-70 f/4 vs 24-70 f/2.8

Is there a way to control the built-in profiles and does anybody know why some lenses have manual profiles, others do not? I assume this is an Adobe issue, because people tell me that other software provides profiles.
View attachment 16043

I shoot with the Z series and my experience is the same as yours. However, while you can uncheck the "Enable Profile Corrections" with Z lenses, the built in profile is still applied. I have found that if you change the Vignette Control setting in the Photo Shooting Menu in the camera the amount of vignetting in the built in profile can be changed. I have tried to find documentation about how this all works without success. Lightroom also reads other settings in the raw file and automatically applies changes in Profile, noise reduction, and sharpening. I don't know if this is all done by Adobe or in combination with Nikon, but it would really be nice if they could document exactly what is going on.

 

[johnrellis]

Starting with LR 9.4, "For some new cameras (mirrorless and compact) added in 9.4 and later, the built-in profile now shows as Camera Settings in the Profile pop-up and can be turned off. This does not apply to existing cameras, which still show as Built-in Lens Profile Applied." (When it shows Built-in Lens Profile Applied, you can't turn off the built-in profile.)

For example, a photo from the Nikon Z 7 shows as:

But a photo from the Nikon Z 7II shows as:

Many have asked for the ability to disable built-in lens profiles for older cameras. If that's important to you, please add your constructive opinion to this feature request:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/conv...pic-reply-list=[object Object]#reply_20170807

 

[JML]

Starting with LR 9.4, "For some new cameras (mirrorless and compact) added in 9.4 and later, the built-in profile now shows as Camera Settings in the Profile pop-up and can be turned off. This does not apply to existing cameras, which still show as Built-in Lens Profile Applied." (When it shows Built-in Lens Profile Applied, you can't turn off the built-in profile.)

For example, a photo from the Nikon Z 7 shows as:
View attachment 16053

But a photo from the Nikon Z 7II shows as:
View attachment 16054

Many have asked for the ability to disable built-in lens profiles for older cameras. If that's important to you, please add your constructive opinion to this feature request:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/conv...pic-reply-list=[object Object]#reply_20170807

Thank you John, but that cannot be the whole truth. I have a Z6 and a Z6II and both do the same with the 24-70 f/4, the lens profile cannot be disabled. There seems to be a dependence on the lens perhaps (those added before 9.4 and after??)

 

[johnrellis]

Interesting, I downloaded two sample Z 6II photos from dpreview.com. The lens profile for the Nikkor Z 24-70mm f/4 S couldn't be disabled, but the lens profile for the Nikkor Z 70-200mm f/2.8 VR S could be. According to posts in the dpreview.com forum, the latter lens shipped August 2020, right about when LR 9.4 was released.

Other than the description provided in Lightroomqueen's 9.4 release notes and a post by Adobe employee Rikk Flohr, I couldn't find any documentation about the new behavior. So I filed two bug reports:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conv...lens-but-not-another/6024af80946f6008c0279a31

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conv...n-94-isnt-documented/6024b2d1946f6008c0279a56

 

[Hua Ming]

I have a Z6 and a Z7ii. With the 24-70 F4 I cannot turn off the lens profile with either camera. So it definitely seems to be lens dependent.

 

[Dan Lit]

I find the built in profiles to be terrible.....its a shame not to have control

 

[Denis de Gannes]

I find the built in profiles to be terrible.....its a shame not to have control

The built in profile is created by your Camera Manufacturer. Just a thought.

 

[kimballistic]

Thank you John, but that cannot be the whole truth. I have a Z6 and a Z6II and both do the same with the 24-70 f/4, the lens profile cannot be disabled. There seems to be a dependence on the lens perhaps (those added before 9.4 and after??)

The profile cannot be disabled because the physical design of the lens is such that it requires a software-based profile correction to "finish" the image to Nikon's desired specs of the lens. This is how the 24-70/4 and 14-30/4 are so small and light. They've chosen to save weight, size, and cost by allowing the physical lens to have much more distortion and vignetting, which is then fixed with the built-in lens profile, either in camera or after the fact in LR. Fuji does the same with many of their lenses, and other manufacturers are now doing this as well.

I believe that if you want fully optically-corrected zooms you would need to step up to the f/2.8 series, which are much larger, heavier, and more expensive.

In any case, if you'd like to disable the profile, you need to convert the files to DNG and use the command-line exiftool program to strip the profiles from the DNGs. Here is a very brief description of that process, along with examples of the uncorrected distortion of the 24-70/4.

 

[johnrellis]

Adobe employee Rikk Flohr has confirmed that, even with newer cameras for which LR allows built-in lens profiles to be disabled, LR still won't allow the profiles to be disabled if the lens manufacturer prohibits it (as Nikon does):

Depending on the in-camera metadata for lens corrections, we either allow or disallow embedded lens profiles for certain Nikon Z series lenses.

For example: when the camera reports that distortion should not be disabled (e.g. some wide-angle lenses or zooms), we fall back to opcodes that cannot be disabled.

Rikk has also confirmed that they'll be documenting these changes that were made in LR 9.4 to handling of built-in lens profiles.

 

[leedreaming]

Hi there. I'm considering jumping into a Z5 and the Z 14-30mm f4. However, I'm a Lightroom luddite still using LR 6.1. If I import photos taken with the above equipment into my version of LR, will the built-in profiles be applied? If not, is there a way to make adjustments to the distortion of Z RAW files in LR 6.1? Thanks for your help!

 

[markstothard]

I would like to add to this conversation just as a general non-specific point of view.

Since Adobe has gone to a subscription model, its only historic cameras and lenses that are supported by those pre subscription versions of Lightroom and Photoshop.

So if your using LR 6.1 and the camera and lens Nikon Z5 was not available before LR6.1, then the camera and or lens may not be supported.

The subscription model argument is, we need to continually support new products and features, and you have to pay for them, which I am in favour of.

If you want a new car with all the new features then you buy a new car and pay for the running of that new car, you don't just pay for the new feature as the old car does not support them.

I'm sorry.

 

[clee01l]

Hi there. I'm considering jumping into a Z5 and the Z 14-30mm f4. However, I'm a Lightroom luddite still using LR 6.1. If I import photos taken with the above equipment into my version of LR, will the built-in profiles be applied? If not, is there a way to make adjustments to the distortion of Z RAW files in LR 6.1? Thanks for your help!

Short answer: No. You won’t even be able to import the RAW NEF. You will have to use the free DNG converter to convert to DNG. The Lens correction information is stored in the Manufacture notes (which Lightroom reads for Propietary Lens information) This information is reserved when converted to DNG but not in a way that Lightroom can use it. Also the ability to read and use built in Lens correction information was added to a much later version of Lightroom and not even found in your Legacy LR6.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[johnrellis]

still using LR 6.1

I recommend you update to 6.14 (the last version of LR 6). You can download it from here:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/update-lightroom-6-0-to-6-14/m-p/10819370#M170107

 

[leedreaming]

I recommend you update to 6.14 (the last version of LR 6). You can download it from here:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/update-lightroom-6-0-to-6-14/m-p/10819370#M170107

Thanks John. I wasn't exact enough in my first post. I actually do have 6.14.

 

[leedreaming]

I would like to add to this conversation just as a general non-specific point of view.

Since Adobe has gone to a subscription model, its only historic cameras and lenses that are supported by those pre subscription versions of Lightroom and Photoshop.

So if your using LR 6.1 and the camera and lens Nikon Z5 was not available before LR6.1, then the camera and or lens may not be supported.

The subscription model argument is, we need to continually support new products and features, and you have to pay for them, which I am in favour of.

If you want a new car with all the new features then you buy a new car and pay for the running of that new car, you don't just pay for the new feature as the old car does not support them.

I'm sorry.

Those are all fair comments Mark and I appreciate your thoughts. I am not a Lightroom expert and just wanted to understand what my options are if I upgrade my camera/lenses, so that's why added my questions to this thread. The answers I have received have told me what I didn't know and I really appreciate that as well.

Thanks again.

 

[Denis de Gannes]

Lightroom Classic is far beyond 6.14, it’s now 10.2 i.e 4 (four) full upgrades.
Multiple new editing features and enhanced Camera Profiles, not to mention new camera support and sharing features. If you are purchasing a new camera the free app the camera manufacturer provides will render a superior output of the raw file.

 

[PhilBurton]

Lightroom Classic is far beyond 6.14, it’s now 10.2 i.e 4 (four) full upgrades.
Multiple new editing features and enhanced Camera Profiles, not to mention new camera support and sharing features. If you are purchasing a new camera the free app the camera manufacturer provides will render a superior output of the raw file.

Perhaps for other cameras, but I doubt that the most recent version of Nikon Capture can provide the end-to-end workflow that Lightroom supports.

I don't like to do Adobe's marketing work for them. (Nor have I recently criticized the competence of that work.) To me, it seems penny-wise and pound-foolish to spend a lot on a new camera body (and possible new lenses), yet not spend a much smaller amount on post-processing software.

Back in the film days, you had to buy a slide projector and screen (if doing slides) and either pay for processing, or else have a home darkroom, depending on your personal preferences and type of photography.

 

[Denis de Gannes]

I am only referring to the raw rendition Lr 6.14 and your Current Camera app.