Muddy exports

[mikecox]

Lightroom Version Number

11.5

Operating System

1. Windows 11

I'm having trouble with the images I export to my SSD.

In Lr they have soft and nuanced colors but when I post them they are muddy, dense, and not fit for publications!

I have a ThinkPad with two external monitors; one is a new BenQ, I had Geeksquad in to get the resolutions to equal and tune them up, so I'm not sure why I'm having this problem.

Any suggestions as to what I might do to get my output to match what I edit?

 

[Califdan]

Open the exported images in Windows Picture Viewer or other non internet image viewing SW. Is it muddy there too? If so then check your export settings. If it looks OK there but is muddy when you upload it to some image sharing web site, the problem is probably with them. But you may want to check the file type and color space of your export with the requirments of the web service. Also check to see if you're embedding any color profiles in the esported images as you might for a print lab.

 

[GregJ]

When I export jpegs from Lr, I do it on a temp folder on my desktop. Then I look at them on the standard old windows picture viewer. I always do that before publishing them to Flickr or wherever.... Over the years I have caught a lot of mistakes that way.
So you are exporting a full size jped from a raw file on lr and then viewing it on a Ben Q color calibrated 4k monitor and it looks like mush?
That is really strange.
Even if you scrwed up the export settings it would be hard to turn it to mush.
Try exporting at full size from the raw. Then view it on the BenQ using the regular old windows viewer. Give it a look in bridge too.
If it is mush then that is really weird.
No way.... Something simple is amiss.....

 

[Califdan]

Some culprits could be:

• Bad monitor driver
• Jpeg Qaulity set too low in Export "File Settings"
• Non standard color space specified in Export "file settings"
• Resizing to a too low resolution or allowing it to upscale to a too high resolution
• Some post processing specified in Export dialog
• A semi-transpartent graphic watermark overlaying the exported imageHard to

Hard to tell without seeing what you mean

 

[GregJ]

Some culprits could be:

• Bad monitor driver
• Jpeg Qaulity set too low in Export "File Settings"
• Non standard color space specified in Export "file settings"
• Resizing to a too low resolution or allowing it to upscale to a too high resolution
• Some post processing specified in Export dialog
• A semi-transpartent graphic watermark overlaying the exported imageHard to

Hard to tell without seeing what you mean

Dan, it is an interesting discussion and I'm curious what it is. You know your stuff and your remarks are interesting. But....

Monitor driver unlikely because it works for his editing. He's got a pro monitor. It would present in many instances if a problem.

Jpeg quality setting to low... Very unlikely. Even with very large files and pixel peeping at 1:1, it is very difficult for me to discern the difference between 80 and 100. 90 is perfect. Even if he set it at 50 it won't be mushy. But maybe if he set it really low. But I doubt it.

Non standard color space set at export. Maybe. Doubt it. That causes other problems, but I'm not a color space expert on problems like that. But I don't think so.

Resizing? Don't think so. Those algorithms are too good. Jim Kasson always taught me to export at full size and lower quality setting if you need a smaller file size and let the algorithm do it's magic. Smaller quality number better than resizing down.

The watermark problem? Maybe. But he isn't using a watermark is he?

He needs to export a bunch of raws to his desktop at full size and various other sizes at 90 quality and view them and see what is getting screwed up.

 

[Califdan]

Greg, I was just listing possible cuases - not just likely ones.

The reason I indluded some of the possibilities is the It's not clear what the OP means by "Muddy". To me "muddy " means non crisp (a bit blurry) or even a bit desaturated with dull colors. Perhaps the OP means pixilated or very low res which would happen with very aggressive down scaling or even very agressive upscaling. Jpeg Qaulity controls the aggressivnes of the compression algorithm. The lower the number the more agressive the compression. Usually there is no desernable difference between 90 and 100 other than file size, but as you go lower you are removing more and more "real" pixels from the file which then requires the displaing end to "reconstruct" those missing pixels through interpolation and this could introduce a drop in crispness.

Many times one use the scroll wheel on the mouse to scroll a dialog box such as the export dialog box, up or down which works fine. However, in some cases if the cursor is actually in a numeric fiield when you move the mouse scroll wheel, rather than scrolling the up or down it increases or decreases the numeric value of the one field the cursor is in. If you don't notice this you can really slam a value to an extreme without noticing

it would be good to see the settings in the export dialog box and also see the clean vs. muddy versions of the problem.

You're right that the monitor drivers is unlikely as the problem does not permeate other situations, but I included it as sometimes driver issues manifest themselves in weird ways.

 

[GregJ]

Greg, I was just listing possible cuases - not just likely ones.

The reason I indluded some of the possibilities is the It's not clear what the OP means by "Muddy". To me "muddy " means non crisp (a bit blurry) or even a bit desaturated with dull colors. Perhaps the OP means pixilated or very low res which would happen with very aggressive down scaling or even very agressive upscaling. Jpeg Qaulity controls the aggressivnes of the compression algorithm. The lower the number the more agressive the compression. Usually there is no desernable difference between 90 and 100 other than file size, but as you go lower you are removing more and more "real" pixels from the file which then requires the displaing end to "reconstruct" those missing pixels through interpolation and this could introduce a drop in crispness.

Many times one use the scroll wheel on the mouse to scroll a dialog box such as the export dialog box, up or down which works fine. However, in some cases if the cursor is actually in a numeric fiield when you move the mouse scroll wheel, rather than scrolling the up or down it increases or decreases the numeric value of the one field the cursor is in. If you don't notice this you can really slam a value to an extreme without noticing

it would be good to see the settings in the export dialog box and also see the clean vs. muddy versions of the problem.

You're right that the monitor drivers is unlikely as the problem does not permeate other situations, but I included it as sometimes driver issues manifest themselves in weird ways.

Dan, you made a good post. I hope he comes back and tells us what was going on - If he fixes it quickly or it remains a mystery.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

What I see in many photos from Camera Club members is JPG files embedded with a profile other than sRGB. Commonly AdobeRGB and ProfotoRGB.
In Colour Managed Apps you will not see a difference, but if not colour managed the difference in colours is obvious.
You might be able to discern the difference here in my screen-clips of JPGs exported from LrC- sRGB vs ProfotoRGB, and viewed in XnView.
sRGB ProfotoRGB

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I do see it, but it’s much less than I would have expected.

 

[tspear]

I have also found a locally repeatable bug on export from Lr. Note: I am using Cloudy Desktop.
On my desktop, when I export the images always have a brownish cast.
When I export from my laptop, I have no issues.

Since my desktop PC is from 2017 or 2018; and I have a work around; I never pushed Adobe on the bug after doing a simple report of it.

Note: I mention this because the image engine in Classic and Cloudy is shared.

There

 

[GregJ]

Mike, you never came back to the thread you started. Did you figure it out? I'm genuinely curious about this one.
What was that mush all about?

 

[mikecox]

Sorry, got a lot on my plate. I'm still processing this thread.

My monitors are still not calibrated; they each have a different Sastuarion and vibrance. I called in a "Google expert" but all he did was adjust the resolution; so they scale correctly but he ignored the calibration issue. I'm thinking I need to get this issue sorted out first.

I plan to take an edited image that I've exported in the past to see if it displays correctly. I'll let you know how that works out, after I've reconsidered all the responses to this threat; which I greatly appreciate

Mike, you never came back to the thread you started. Did you figure it out? I'm genuinely curious about this one.
What was that mush all about?

 

[mikecox]

Sorry, got a lot on my plate. I'm still processing this thread.

My monitors are still not calibrated; they each have a different Sastuarion and vibrance. I called in a "Google expert" but all he did was adjust the resolution; so they scale correctly but he ignored the calibration issue. I'm thinking I need to get this issue sorted out first.

I plan to take an edited image that I've exported in the past to see if it displays correctly. I'll let you know how that works out, after I've reconsidered all the responses to this threat; which I greatly appreciate

No, I never did, but I think it has something to do with how fb processes images.

TTTT the issue has kind of fallen off my radar as I've been focused on video; working in Pr. Exporting videos that look fine.