merging catalogs

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William Porter

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I know the topic has been discussed but the threads I read have left me more confused than I was before I read them. So I'm giving it a fresh try - and I will describe my problem carefully in the hope it makes it easier to reply.


Background

I used to keep my raw master files on two external hard drives: a small (12'GB) drive was used to store recent photos that I was still processing in Lightroom, and a larger (75'GB) drive was used as the archival or permanent storage. Each drive had its own Lightroom catalog. When a folder on the small/recent drive was ready to be archived, I'd connect both drives to my laptop, open the catalog on the archival drive and use the "import from catalog" command to move the folder to the new drive. Then I'd open the catalog on the small drive and delete the photos.


Current problem

Well, I upgraded my laptop's drive to 5''GB and I would like now to combine everything. I've copied both libraries (i.e. the catalogs AND the associated files) from the two external drives to the internal drive of the computer. They're now sitting in 2 different places:

C:\....My Documents\My Pictures\2''9 (the recent photos)

C:\....My Documents\Old Photos\Old Masters (the archive, with 2''7 and 2''8 photos)

I'd like to end up with everything in one folder, with this structure:

C:\....My Documents\My Pictures\Raw Masters\

with 3 subfolders for raw files, named 2''7, 2''8 and 2''9.

I can't quite figure out how to do this. I would prefer not to have to COPY (duplicate) the image files. I wish I could just dump the three photos for the three years (2''7, 2''8 and 2''9) into the same folder, and then somehow merge the catalogs without moving the photos further. But I'm afraid that if I start moving the catalogs and/or image file folders around, I'll end up losing the Lightroom info about my edits, keywords, etc.

(Must say that my LEAST favorite thing about Lightroom is the use of special catalogs. I much prefer the approach used by other programs like Picasa, LightZone, and I think ACDSee, where file management can be done outside the program in the Windows Explorer, and the program simply adjusts to the folder structures it finds.)

Anyway, thanks in advance.

Will
 
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Well, I read some more and tried to do this myself. I moved the files around so that I had a folder hierarchy like this:

[pre]My Documents
_ Lightroom catalog A folder
_ Lightroom catalog B folder
_ ALL Pix RAW MASTERS
_ _ 2''7
_ _ 2''8
_ _ 2''9[/pre]
That's what it looks like in Windows Explorer. I was able to open catalog A and see the 2''7 and 2''8 files; I was able to open catalog B and see the 2''9 files. I think I was in great shape to merge the catalogs.

So I tried to import catalog B into catalog A, without moving the files (since the files were already exactly where they need to be).
The outline above shows the ACTUAL folder hierarchy in Windows Explorer. The attached screen shot shows what Lightroom thinks it sees. I think Lightroom is stoned out its mind. And I'm completely stumped at this point.

Lightroom shows multiple instances of the My Pictures folder, and multiple instances of the folder ALL Pix RAW MASTERS. One of these instances shows a 2''9 folder; another shows 2''7 and 2''9 folders. When I try to move the 2''9 folder out of its instance of "ALL Pix RAW MASTERS" into the instance of the same folder that contains 2''8 and 2''7 files, I'm told that a folder named 2''9 already exists at that location.

How can Lightroom get this confused? And what can I do? This is a terrible mess!

Thanks,

Will
 
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Well you have got a mess!!These things can be sorted though!!First question, do you have the metadata saved to the files? If not do so by selecting all in the All Photographs collection (Library/Grid) and Cmd?Ctrl -S.Second do you have collections that are used? If so what I am going to suggest may remove some photos from them.Make a copy of your catalogs next - so you can go back if necessary.Start a fresh Catalog - call it Master or some such name.Then Import from Catalog A, then import from Catalog B
One thing in your screen shot you seem to have two different raw masters folders, one with "RAW" and the other with "Raw". Try right clicking the folder in the folder panel and use show in Explorer and see if they are the same. You may have moved folders around in Explorer when it is best to do this within LR.
 
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Thanks for your reply, Geoff! It was a mess indeed.

I think I have it all sorted now (fingers crossed while touching wood). Let me explain, for the benefit of others who might run into the same problem.


Solution, part 1

First, in my screen shot, there are two instances of the My Pictures folder. I thought these were two instances of the same folder. They were not. Somehow - I don't know how this happened - on my computer, in the Documents and Settings folder, there were two user folders, one named "Will" which contains all of my personal account files, and a second named "WP". The latter folder (which corresponds to no account on my computer!) contained ONLY a My Pictures folder, and it contained some other image folders from 2''9. I determined that all of these were duplicates of files found in the Will hierarchy. So, in Windows Explorer, the first thing I did was delete everything in the WP folder system. Then I reopened Lightroom 2.5, and synchronized that second instance of My Pictures. Since there were no longer any folders or files there, Lightroom appropriate removed those subfolders and then removed the second instance of My Pictures. Progress.


Solution, part 2

That left me dealing with this scenario, which was weird enough:


[pre]My Pictures
> RAW MASTERS
> > 2''9
> RAW MASTERS
> > 2''8
> > 2''7[/pre]

Those 2 instances of "RAW MASTERS" were in fact instances of the same "real" folder in Explorer. When I tried to move 2''9 into the second instance of RAW MASTERS, I was told I could not do so because there was already a folder named 2''9 at that location. What this tells me is that Lightroom is AWARE of reality, even when it doesn't appear to be reflecting it. (This is where I think there's actually a bug in Lightroom.) At least doing this didn't cause the 2''9 folder to be deleted, which is what happened during the beta for Lightroom 2. (I discovered that bug and worked with Adobe to kill it.)

Anyway, since I could not move the year folders into the same parent folder, and since synchronizing also did not seem to work, after scratching my head hard for a while I came up with a solution. I created a NEW folder (I just called it "Raw New") just inside My Pictures and at the same level of the Lightroom AND Windows hierarchy as RAW MASTERS. I was able to move 2''9 into this new folder, and I was able to move 2''8 and 2''7 into it, as well. I confirmed that neither instance of RAW MASTERS any longer had any folders or files within, and I removed them from Lightroom.

Seems to have worked.

I do not have any collections, so that (thank goodness) was never an issue.

*

I would like to say, in my own defense, that what I was doing seemed reasonable to me at every step of the way. When I imported the 2''9 folder from its original catalog into the catalog that contained 2''8 and 2''9, I asked Lightroom to import "without moving." It's pretty clear that, what Lightroom did was import the database info from the old catalog - including the path to the 2''9 folder - without comparing it to reality. It was Lightroom, not I, that created the two instances of the one RAW MASTERS folder. I think Lightroom's folder hierarchy should reflect the reality on disk and that Lightroom should sort things out when asked to. Picasa can do it and you don't even have to ask.

Anyway, with any luck, I'm good for another year. I like Lightroom very much and I'm enjoying playing with the Lightroom 3 beta (in a separate catalog, with duplicate photo files!). But it does seem that, every time I have to move folders around, split catalogs or merge catalogs, move my catalog to a new hard disk, whatever it might be, every time it happens, I run into a problem. I really really wish this dimension of Lightroom were more goof-proof than it is.

Anyway, thanks again for the response. Onward and upward.

Will


p.s. I was rather desperate last night when I posted this, and a while later, I went over to the main Adobe support forum for Lightroom and posted a similar plea for help there. Then I basically sorted it out for myself, along the lines described above. My apologies to anybody who reads both forums. I don't usually like cross-posts myself and I seldom do them, but I did here and so somebody might notice a similar thread over there.
 
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I'm facing the same situation... trying to merge two photo libraries. I was trying to follow what you were doing here, but with the issues of duplicate "my picture" folders, and also having 3 different folders each from different years, it just confused me a bit.

If you've got this sorted out, any chance you can post a recap for what someone might do to simply combine 2 libraries?

Thanks!
-Jim

http://www.jimpowellphoto.com
 
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[quote author=Jim Powell Photography link=topic=8311.msg57681#msg57681 date=125968'891]
I'm facing the same situation... trying to merge two photo libraries. I was trying to follow what you were doing here, but with the issues of duplicate "my picture" folders, and also having 3 different folders each from different years, it just confused me a bit. [/quote]

Well, with any luck, you won't run into the first of my weird problems - the duplicate "My Pictures" folders. I don't have any idea how that happened but I think that was a Windows mistake, not a Lightroom mistake.


If you've got this sorted out, any chance you can post a recap for what someone might do to simply combine 2 libraries?
Click to expand...

I do have it sorted, I guess. But I'm afraid I can't post a very helpful recap. What I did was screw things up pretty badly, and then manage to fix them. I don't think I would recommend the approach that I took! So I'm hoping somebody else who actually KNOWS the right answer will respond to you.

*

I'm really sorry (as I may have said earlier) that Lightroom isn't as smart as Picasa is about handling folders. Picasa scans your hard disk (wherever you permit it to look) and will on its own figure out what's changed, if you reorganized some folders, deleted a folder, etc. The only thing you should NOT do in Windows Explorer is move image files from one folder to another. That will confuse Picasa because it stores your edits inside invisible files, which are stored inside each folder. But as long as you keep the files in the folder where they were first created or copied, then it's nearly impossible to confuse Picasa or screw things up for yourself. (I know Picasa well because I use it to manage my library of exported jpegs. I use Lightroom only for the more important task of managing and processing my raw originals.)

Lightroom, on the other hand, seems to prefer that you not use a folder hierarchy at all. In Lightroom 3 beta (which I'm also using a good bit now), my folders as viewed in Lightroom are not organized hierarchically. The folders listing just shows a one-level listing of folders by name ("2''9'818", etc.). IN Windows Explorer, these folders are actually hierarchically organized, by year and month (with the individual folders being for individual dates). I find it annoying that Lightroom doesn't show me the folder hierarchy.

I continue to think this is the single most serious problem with Lightroom. I can't think of another program that handles things this badly. (Well, iPhoto used to be much worse, but I haven't used iPhoto for many years.)

Good luck.

Will
 
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Jim, are any of the photos duplicated in both catalogs, do you know?
 
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[quote author=Victoria Bampton link=topic=8311.msg577'5#msg577'5 date=12597'2'79]
Jim, are any of the photos duplicated in both catalogs, do you know?
[/quote]

Yes, unfortunately I just realized there are about 2' duplicate folders. And i don't want to bring any of them over.


www.jimpowellphoto.com
 
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[quote author=William Porter link=topic=8311.msg57682#msg57682 date=1259682172]
Lightroom, on the other hand, seems to prefer that you not use a folder hierarchy at all. In Lightroom 3 beta (which I'm also using a good bit now), my folders as viewed in Lightroom are not organized hierarchically. The folders listing just shows a one-level listing of folders by name ("2''9'818", etc.). IN Windows Explorer, these folders are actually hierarchically organized, by year and month (with the individual folders being for individual dates). I find it annoying that Lightroom doesn't show me the folder hierarchy.

I continue to think this is the single most serious problem with Lightroom. I can't think of another program that handles things this badly.
Will
[/quote]
You can right click a folder and choose "Add Parent Folder" to show your folder hierachy!
 
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Ok, no great disaster. Are we still at the same stage as the screenshot earlier in the thread? The issue there is a difference in capitilization, which is quite easily solved.
 
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[quote author=Kiwigeoff link=topic=8311.msg58168#msg58168 date=126'422423]
You can right click a folder and choose "Add Parent Folder" to show your folder hierachy!
[/quote]

I've noticed that command before but didn't know what it did. That allowed me to clean up my folder list in Lightroom 3b. Thanks for the tip, Geoff!
I still can't quite figure out why Lightroom doesn't just display the folder hierarchy automatically.

Will
 
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[quote author=William Porter link=topic=8311.msg58181#msg58181 date=126'456358]
I still can't quite figure out why Lightroom doesn't just display the folder hierarchy automatically.

Will
[/quote]

Do really need to see that everything is under "C:/Documents and Settings/UserName/My Pictures.../" pushing everything out of view to the right of the panel? Useless in my opinion...
 
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[quote author=Denis Pagé link=topic=8311.msg58182#msg58182 date=126'457499]
[quote author=William Porter link=topic=8311.msg58181#msg58181 date=126'456358]
I still can't quite figure out why Lightroom doesn't just display the folder hierarchy automatically.

Will
[/quote]

Do really need to see that everything is under "C:/Documents and Settings/UserName/My Pictures.../" pushing everything out of view to the right of the panel? Useless in my opinion...
[/quote]


No, of course not. Showing anything above the current user's acccount (in other words, "C:/Documents and Settings/Username/..." would be absurd.

But this isn't what Picasa does at all. Actually Picasa has 2 ways of displaying the folder hierarchy and they're both better than Lightroom's, in my judgment.

Will
 
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[quote author=Victoria Bampton link=topic=8311.msg58171#msg58171 date=126'442'98]
Ok, no great disaster. Are we still at the same stage as the screenshot earlier in the thread? The issue there is a difference in capitilization, which is quite easily solved.
[/quote]

I'm still at the same stage as before... no capitalization issues, just trying to merge the libraries on two computers. I used a laptop to store all of my photos on a trip to Europe, but now i want to combine them with my old library that is on my main computer.

I THOUGHT i had it figured out, but I was mistaken. I tested this before attempting it with my laptop pictures. My main computer actually has a 2nd internal hard drive (with a separate operating system and everything) that did not have lightroom installed on it. So i decided to use this to test bringing a catalog and library into lightroom.

I installed lightroom onto the new Hard Drive, and copied the catalog files over, imported them via lightroom's "import from catalog" function, and because lightroom (on both hard drives) are both pointing to an external hard drive, the path of the photos is exactly the same, so i though this would work perfectly. And it did actually add the folder names, and they point to the correct folder and everything, but the folders appear empty in lightroom. I have to synchronize every folder to get the pictures to appear in lightroom. And unfortunately it's making me sync one folder at a time. I've got a TON of folders so it's taking me forever. I must have done something wrong.

www.jimpowellphoto.com
 
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