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LRC and Topaz Denoise RAW Files

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Not sure if this is a LRC issue, Topaz issue or Nikoz Z9 RAW file issue.

Recently Denoise was updated to allow direct importing of RAW files.

The exported File from Denoise can be a DNG, which is nice as it preserves some info lost from a TIFF file.

However when the exported DNG is viewed in LRC - LRC can't "see" the file. It isnt shown in the filmstrip, however it is there in the Folder in windows. The folder is synced - up to date in LRC.

This only happens with Z9 RAW files, not with my Nikon Z6ii for example.

Colleagues with the Z9 also report the same issue.

I will log it with Topaz also.
 
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Have a look here "However after some testing it became clear that the dng files that topaz saves are not actual raw files. They are simply tiff files in a dng wrapper so you can't use this to create denoised raw files."

One question I always have is why you think the RAW converter in TOPAZ is better than the one on LrC? I use DeNoise but allow LrC to send the file to DeNoise as a TIFF.
 

Zenon

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In the Library Window locate the folder, right click and select "synchronize folder". The whole point of using this method is so you can access WB and Adobe and Camera colour profiles back in LrC. Unfortunately this is not working properly for Canon yet. It just defaults to Color back in LrC. It works for Sony and I don't know about Nikon.

You will notice at the end he opens the Sony file when it is back in LrC, not the Canon file.

https://www.topazlabs.com/denoise-ai#tutorial-videos-4
 

Zenon

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In case anyone is wondering that video is from the Topaz website. I'm surprised they haven't pulled it. As far as my workflow I correct WB, select Auto, choose a profile and the send to DeNoise as a TIFF preserving LrC edits. Colour is bang on accurate back in LrC. The one thing I like about Topaz is in the preferences you can instruct it not to change the colours.

Applying noise reduction at the RAW level is supposed yield better results. I think that is true. On a whim I decided to try ON1 NoNoise using at method but also back in LrC you have to sync the folder and you lose colour profiles. I can see better results doing that than sending a file to NoNoise as a TIFF. Still of no use to me without the profiles.
 
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Applying noise reduction at the RAW level is supposed yield better results.
I would challenge that Topaz is applying DeNoise on the RAW level. RAW is not an image and only a collection of sensor data. A RAW converter, like in Topaz or LrC, creates an image from the RAW information on which to operate.
 
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Was that just the way I worded it? Should I have said RAW file?
I was suggesting a correction in perception. You don't see the conversion from RAW to TIFF/DNG but that's what you are dealing. Since the post I referenced said the DNG was a wrapper around a TIFF file, then I'd say DeNoise is probably operating on an internal TIFF image and not RAW.
 

Zenon

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I was suggesting a correction in perception. You don't see the conversion from RAW to TIFF/DNG but that's what you are dealing. Since the post I referenced said the DNG was a wrapper around a TIFF file, then I'd say DeNoise is probably operating on an internal TIFF image and not RAW.
I see. I thought that meant it applied NR to the RAW file but sent it back as a DNG wrapper. You are saying that while in Topaz it says it’s a RAW file but really isn’t.

If I send a TIFF to ON1 NoNoise I get a warning that best results are achieved as a RAW file. Since it come back without access to Color profiles it’s probably the same thing. Two different companies so I don’t know the details.
 
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I think there is a lot of misinformation about this subject. Noise reduction is indeed not applied on the raw data, it is applied after demosaicing. The advantage of starting from a raw file is that you can do it as early in the process as possible. If you let Lightroom generate a TIFF file and apply noise reduction on that TIFF file, then you apply noise reduction later on in the process.

There certainly is an advantage of letting the noise reduction software start from a raw file and create a linear RGB DNG. This DNG may not be a raw file, but it does behave like it in Lightroom. Just like Lightroom-generated panorama or HDR DNG files do. That means that you can still set the white balance and apply a raw profile, for example. If you use a TIFF, then both the white balance and the raw profile are set before the TIFF is sent to the noise reduction software, and so they cannot be adjusted any more on return.
 

Zenon

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Thanks Johan. That is a more clear now. Not that the others didn't explain it, I'm just not that strong in that area. If you drag a file into any 3rd party NR no LrC edits are retained. When back in LrC and no access to WB and colour profiles makes that process useless to me. The only one that offers that is DXO PureRaw (PL too I think) but it underexposes and alters the colour on the DNG's exported back to LrC. That does not work for me either.

I think a good workflow would be to find the Noise Reduction Sensei button in LrC :);)
 
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I think a good workflow would be to find the Noise Reduction Sensei button in LrC :);)
Indirectly that button is already there. Noise reduction in Lightroom can be quite effective, but it destroys too much detail. That is where the new masking with AI can help. This is a good example of the kind of image where I would perhaps use DxO in the past (I have a license for DxO PhotoLab) to reduce noise and create a new DNG. But today I use the new masking to select the subject, invert the mask and then reduce noise in the background only.

JWED-201909021731586646.jpg
 

Zenon

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I used to do that by creating two files. One for the subject and one for the background, send to PS and layer. The new masking makes it easier. I still prefer the edge 3rd party provides for the subject .
 

Zenon

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Indirectly that button is already there. Noise reduction in Lightroom can be quite effective, but it destroys too much detail. That is where the new masking with AI can help. This is a good example of the kind of image where I would perhaps use DxO in the past (I have a license for DxO PhotoLab) to reduce noise and create a new DNG. But today I use the new masking to select the subject, invert the mask and then reduce noise in the background only.

View attachment 17919
I was applying masking for other reasons. I just tried that for NR. Pretty fast.
 
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