LR Newbie - not impressed (yet?)

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LiveAwake

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Ok, so to preface I am definitely new to LightRoom, and I know that part of my problem is just not knowing all the neat tricks and features. But I have to say, I'm feeling pretty disappointed in Lightroom after all the hype about it.

My biggest complaint is just that it's incredibly SLOW! All of the importing/rendering/preview generation . . . my computer may not be brand new, but it makes me feel like I'm working with an original pentium and 256m or RAM. Is this normal, or do I have some settings wrong somewhere?

Secondly, is there any way to make LR automatically synchronize folders? If I use anything other than LR to download pictures from my camera to my computer, they don't show up in LR until I manually tell it to synchronize the folder I put them in. This seems really clunky and primitive to me. Anyone?

Next, is there any way to get LR to default to camera settings when rendering a RAW image? I shoot a Nikon D3'', and I frequently change settings like white balance, picture control (neutral/vivid/monochrome etc.), saturation, sharpening etc. etc. If I open a file in LR, the initial preview looks like how I shot it, but as soon as the program catches up it removes all of those and requires me to go through and set them all again manually in Lightroom. This is a huge hassle! If I shoot in black & white, I want it to show up black and white unless I ask it to revert back to color. Same with saturation, color settings etc. Nikon's Capture NX software will do this, but I dislike it for other reasons, and it doesn't have the same level of organizing power etc. that Lightroom seems to have.

I also have a specific question about one of the features on Nikon's new cameras. The D3'', D7'' and D3 (maybe others but I don't know for sure) will automatically correct for chromatic aberrations (color fringes) that show up from minor lens distortions. This is a sweet feature that works very well in my opinion . . . but it seems to be lost when I open the file in Lightroom (Nikon's Capture NX preserves it). I know I can go in and manually reduce the aberrations using LR's "detail" section of settings, but is there a way to make it keep the correction that was already applied?

I probably have more questions/concerns, but let's start there.

I really want to be impressed by this software - if it worked how I think it should, it would be SUCH a great tool . . . I just don't see how it's practical to do everything over AND have to wait so long just to see your pictures etc.

Thanks!
 
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Hi LiveAwake! Welcome to the forums! When you get a chance please fill in your signature using the USER CP link above.

I'll see if I can at least address some of your concerns.

My biggest complaint is just that it's incredibly SLOW! All of the importing/rendering/preview generation . . . my computer may not be brand new, but it makes me feel like I'm working with an original pentium and 256m or RAM. Is this normal, or do I have some settings wrong somewhere?
Click to expand...

LR's speed is dependent upon a few things. Of course, the speed of your computer (CPU, amount of RAM, etc) is a major factor along with the speed of the drives you are using for storage. The usual equation applies: faster computer = faster performance. Another factor is filesize. If you are importing 1'' 1Mb JPEGs that will go much faster than 1'' 3'Mb RAW files. Lastly, preview generation; if you choose to import and have LR generate 1:1 previews for every image...well that will take some time. Using standard previews is quicker. Minimal previews is quicker still. I generally don't import with 1:1 previews since I really only need those for images I will be working on more in Develop module. Standard previews are more than sufficient for keywording, etc.

Secondly, is there any way to make LR automatically synchronize folders? If I use anything other than LR to download pictures from my camera to my computer, they don't show up in LR until I manually tell it to synchronize the folder I put them in. This seems really clunky and primitive to me. Anyone?
Click to expand...

Not primitive at all but elegant by design! LR is NOT Bridge. The whole point here is to allow you to control what gets added to your catalog and what doesn't. That being said, you can set up LR to automatically import whatever you download off your camera. Under the FILE menu you can enter your auto-import settings. Basically, you set up a folder to be watched. Then download your images to that folder and LR will see them and import them as you have instructed.

Next, is there any way to get LR to default to camera settings when rendering a RAW image? I shoot a Nikon D3'', and I frequently change settings like white balance, picture control (neutral/vivid/monochrome etc.), saturation, sharpening etc. etc. If I open a file in LR, the initial preview looks like how I shot it, but as soon as the program catches up it removes all of those and requires me to go through and set them all again manually in Lightroom. This is a huge hassle! If I shoot in black & white, I want it to show up black and white unless I ask it to revert back to color. Same with saturation, color settings etc. Nikon's Capture NX software will do this, but I dislike it for other reasons, and it doesn't have the same level of organizing power etc. that Lightroom seems to have.

I also have a specific question about one of the features on Nikon's new cameras. The D3'', D7'' and D3 (maybe others but I don't know for sure) will automatically correct for chromatic aberrations (color fringes) that show up from minor lens distortions. This is a sweet feature that works very well in my opinion . . . but it seems to be lost when I open the file in Lightroom (Nikon's Capture NX preserves it). I know I can go in and manually reduce the aberrations using LR's "detail" section of settings, but is there a way to make it keep the correction that was already applied?
Click to expand...

If you are shooting RAW then what you are seeing is LR throwing away the JPEG preview the camera built and re-rendering the RAW file preview. While you cannot exactly duplicate all of the camera settings you can adjust on import.

For example, if you shoot the majority of your shots in Vivid mode you can make that the default in the camera calibration panel in the Develop module. then all shots from that camera will start in Vivid mode.

You can also set up some develop presets and use those in import to get to a close approximation.

Other settings such as white balance should be stable and show up as shot.

Of course, if you are shooting JPEG then everything will match by default.

I don't think the automatic CA corrections will come in though. I'll defer the Nikon shooters to help you on that.

I really want to be impressed by this software ...
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Give it some time. It is a very powerful and elegant workflow tool that, like any other extensive application, takes some time to learn and utilize. Everyone here at the forums is always willing to share and help! :cheesy:
 
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I was not impressed with LR in the beginning. I started with v1.4 and I gave up as I was used to PS. Then I trial LR2 and I was still not impressed and more so confused. I need a different mind set to the workflow. I intended to give it another shot and only used LR. I persevered and now I love it.
Rgds
 
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LR is DA BOMB! :)

Scott Kelby will even tell you that he does 9'-something-% (I can't remember the exact figure he gives) of his work in LR and only x% (again, I can't remember the exact figure he uses) in PS.

I very RARELY open PS. The only time I open PS is for jobs requiring detailed work. Also, I do have a few plugins, actions, etc.. that only work in PS and not in LR.

As noted above, LR is not Bridge and Bridge is not LR. Bridge was designed to "Bridge" together files from all CS applications. LR is not a file management system. Scott Kelby has also said that if Bridge was released as a separate product, he would buy it.


The more you use LR, the more you'll like it! :) I've been using it since Day 1 and I'm never going back to the old way of doing things (which was VERY PAINFUL!!!).
 
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Welcome to the forum...and keep the questions coming. I can't remember ever liking a new program! There is always a learning/familiarity curve involved. I went from Photoshop with all of it's amazing capabilities (most of which I never used) to Lightroom and went back and forth until I finally made a decision as to which my primary editor would be. As others have said, it is an elegant and very logical workflow. Give it time and you may just like it. If not, there are many other programs which just may fit your style better!

As far as specifics, the LR file management system is a database, not a browser like Bridge. So you have to deal with it differently, mostly by telling LR where your files are as they will not be found otherwise. And typically (with a few exceptions) the camera manufacturers and software developers do not play nice with each other. Therefore, many camera settings will not be seen in the file when transferred to most editing programs, including Lightroom and Photoshop. LRs way around this is the Camera Calibration panel, which will mimic the camera settings. Very clever...
 
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LiveAwake said:
I also have a specific question about one of the features on Nikon's new cameras. The D3'', D7'' and D3 (maybe others but I don't know for sure) will automatically correct for chromatic aberrations (color fringes) that show up from minor lens distortions. This is a sweet feature that works very well in my opinion . . . but it seems to be lost when I open the file in Lightroom (Nikon's Capture NX preserves it). I know I can go in and manually reduce the aberrations using LR's "detail" section of settings, but is there a way to make it keep the correction that was already applied?
Click to expand...

IIRC, this feature does not work on RAW NEF files. I believe that this only works if you have your camera save the file as a JPEG. At least the NEF files from my D3'' do not show automatic CA correction.

--Ken
 
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Thanks everyone for your responses. I'm not sure I can moosh responses to everyone into one message, but I'll try.
Lastly, preview generation; if you choose to import and have LR generate 1:1 previews for every image...well that will take some time. Using standard previews is quicker. Minimal previews is quicker still. I generally don't import with 1:1 previews since I really only need those for images I will be working on more in Develop module. Standard previews are more than sufficient for keywording, etc.
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Well, I have two comments about this. First, I find that if I don't begin with a 1:1 preview on import, I just have to wait longer for it to be generated later when I want to see the details of my picture. Even when I'm just looking at files in the library, I often want to compare pictures side by side 1:1 so I can see which is in better focus etc. Secondly, it doesn't seem to be just the creation of previews that takes so much time. Even if I tell it to make 1:1 previews of the entire library, walk away for half an hour and come back when it's done, it always seems to be rendering or loading from previews or whatever. Just scrolling through pictures it takes a while for them to all become "in focus." The same thing happens even just looking at one picture, after it has already created a higher quality 1:1 preview . . . if I scroll or drag the image to look at a different part of it, it takes a second or two for the new section to be in focus. It's not like I'm in such a hurry that I have to count every second I wait for LightRoom to catch up, but when I have to wait between every transition, adjustment or scroll of the mouse, it adds up to a lot of wasted time doing what should be very quick and easy tasks.
If you are shooting RAW then what you are seeing is LR throwing away the JPEG preview the camera built and re-rendering the RAW file preview. While you cannot exactly duplicate all of the camera settings you can adjust on import.

For example, if you shoot the majority of your shots in Vivid mode you can make that the default in the camera calibration panel in the Develop module. then all shots from that camera will start in Vivid mode.

You can also set up some develop presets and use those in import to get to a close approximation.
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That would be fine if I wanted all of my pictures to e processed the same way, but is there a way to tell LR to look at camera settings in order to determine how it should process the RAW file on import? Sometimes I shoot vivid, other times neutral, other times monochrome. One size does not fit all!
LRs way around this is the Camera Calibration panel, which will mimic the camera settings. Very clever...
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I haven't explored this at all yet, and will definitely do so next time I'm at my main computer . . . this sounds like it might be what I'm looking for in the question above. (hopefully!)
As noted above, LR is not Bridge and Bridge is not LR. Bridge was designed to "Bridge" together files from all CS applications. LR is not a file management system.
Click to expand...
Maybe this is part of my problem - Honestly I haven't explored Bridge much, and maybe I need to redefine what I'm trying to get LightRoom to do for me . . .
I also have a specific question about one of the features on Nikon's new cameras. The D3'', D7'' and D3 (maybe others but I don't know for sure) will automatically correct for chromatic aberrations (color fringes) that show up from minor lens distortions. This is a sweet feature that works very well in my opinion . . . but it seems to be lost when I open the file in Lightroom (Nikon's Capture NX preserves it). I know I can go in and manually reduce the aberrations using LR's "detail" section of settings, but is there a way to make it keep the correction that was already applied?
IIRC, this feature does not work on RAW NEF files. I believe that this only works if you have your camera save the file as a JPEG. At least the NEF files from my D3'' do not show automatic CA correction. --Ken
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That's very disappointing to me. . . . I assume then that Capture NX just has the same aberration correction function built-in, and applies it by default? Otherwise, I don't know why aberrations show up in LR but not Capture NX. I guess I can handle going through and doing this manually, but it defeats the purpose of having that feature on my camera if I'm shooting in RAW (unless I decide to use Capture NX as my RAW processor). Not being expert enough in these issues, would it be a bad idea to set that as one of my default corrections for processing on import? For example, if a picture comes out without any aberrations, but I have it apply CA correction anyway, will it create aberrations in the other direction, or distortions of some kind? The camera seems to know when to apply it and when not . . . I did notice that when I export a file from LR to a jpeg it is creating two versions, and from what I can tell on first inspection, one version uses whatever corrections I make in LR and the other uses whatever settings I had in the camera when I took the picture. This seems odd to me, but does give a chance to compare the two. Doesn't this mean that somewhere in the metadata (or somewhere!) LR can indeed read the settings I set on my camera? If so, I'd love to have the option to begin by default with those settings in place, and then adjust as I see fit from there. Anyway, thanks again for all of your responses. I'll keep tinkering, and likely come back with 1'' more questions.
 
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Your expectations as to what a third party software raw converter should supply i.e exactly what the camera firmware or the camera manufacturer's software provides is not realistic. The camera manufacturer has priority processes for their camera firmware and raw conversion software, which they will not share with Adobe or other providers of similar software. If that is what you require then shoot JPEG using the camera settings provided or the camera manufacturer' software to convert the raw files. Then import into Lightroom.
Lightroom, Capture One, Silkypix and other third party raw conversion software providers is about providing an alternative which they believe provides better tools for you to create an improved final image.

You should use the process that provides the most pleasing result for your taste.
 
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Denis de Gannes said:
Your expectations as to what a third party software raw converter should supply i.e exactly what the camera firmware or the camera manufacturer's software provides is not realistic. The camera manufacturer has priority processes for their camera firmware and raw conversion software, which they will not share with Adobe or other providers of similar software. If that is what you require then shoot JPEG using the camera settings provided or the camera manufacturer' software to convert the raw files. Then import into Lightroom.
Lightroom, Capture One, Silkypix and other third party raw conversion software providers is about providing an alternative which they believe provides better tools for you to create an improved final image.

You should use the process that provides the most pleasing result for your taste.
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You may be right . . . certainly no third party software should be expected to exactly replicate all camera's settings. But I don't think it's all that unreasonable for me to expect that it would be able to simulate them, at least in the broadest sense. If I shoot monochrome, I would like my software to be able to recognize that and apply its own monochrome setting. I'm not too fussy if it's not EXACTLY the same, I just want the software to start me at it's best approximation of how I shot the picture, and then let me tweak from there. Otherwise why ever use any of the settings on my camera if I'm shooting in RAW?
 
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Hi LiveAwake, welcome to the forum!

LiveAwake;44'31 said:
But I don't think it's all that unreasonable for me to expect that it would be able to simulate them, at least in the broadest sense. If I shoot monochrome, I would like my software to be able to recognize that and apply its own monochrome setting. I'm not too fussy if it's not EXACTLY the same, I just want the software to start me at it's best approximation of how I shot the picture, and then let me tweak from there. Otherwise why ever use any of the settings on my camera if I'm shooting in RAW?
Click to expand...

I understand what you mean - but I think you'll be waiting a while. Apart from anything else, Nikon (and other manufacturer's) don't tend to share that data with other software companies. That's why their own software can do it and others don't. You'll find the same from most raw processing software. By all means put in a Official Feature Request/Bug Report Form though.

As far as the speed goes, there's a bunch of tips in my latest blog post, but you may find increasing the Camera Raw Cache size helps with your previews speed. http://www.lightroomqueen.com/blog/2''9/'5/'2/hurry-up-lightroom-the-best-speed-tips/
 
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Victoria Bampton;44'33 said:
Hi LiveAwake, welcome to the forum!



I understand what you mean - but I think you'll be waiting a while. Apart from anything else, Nikon (and other manufacturer's) don't tend to share that data with other software companies. That's why their own software can do it and others don't. You'll find the same from most raw processing software. By all means put in a Official Feature Request/Bug Report Form though.

As far as the speed goes, there's a bunch of tips in my latest blog post, but you may find increasing the Camera Raw Cache size helps with your previews speed. http://www.lightroomqueen.com/blog/2''9/'5/'2/hurry-up-lightroom-the-best-speed-tips/
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Thanks Victoria - I'll see what I can glean from your blog. ;)
 
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The monochrome RAW debate is an old and long one. LR will give you more freedom and creative tools to create a monochrome image from your RAW file than any software built into a camera.

If you are out shooting monochromes then just use a monochrome preset on import.

If you are switching back and forth between monochrome and color and want LR to render the preview that way then that would be a good thing to suggest as a feature http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform
 
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LiveAwake;44'31 said:
Otherwise why ever use any of the settings on my camera if I'm shooting in RAW?
Click to expand...
Good question. Free yourself of this burden. Do post-processing after shooting (that's why it's called post). Just put it out of your mind. Stop fiddling with the camera -- use more brain, more eyes, and fewer fingers.

This sort of liberation is one of the great things about shooting raw, IMHO.
 
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Mark Sirota;44'6' said:
Good question. Free yourself of this burden. Do post-processing after shooting (that's why it's called post). Just put it out of your mind. Stop fiddling with the camera -- use more brain, more eyes, and fewer fingers.

This sort of liberation is one of the great things about shooting raw, IMHO.
Click to expand...

Agree with your sentiment 1''% Mark!!:lol::lol:
 
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LiveAwake,

The whole point of shooting RAW is to take the unadulterated image data out of the camera and put into a software program Like ACR / Lightroom / Aperture etc. and make use of their power and flexibility. If you want to use all of the features in the Camera then you will have to shoot in Jpeg / Tif mode.

Your camera does not shoot in monochrome *ever* it always shoots in colour and then just applies a monochrome mix (usually just a desaturate). This monochrome 'flag' is set in the raw file and Capture NX will read it. Most 3rd party RAW converters will ignore it. You then create the monochrome effect in your powerful and flexible RAW converter rather than leaving it to a simple preset in the camera.

I recommend you look at the Adobe LR videos as they will get you up to speed more quickly.

http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/video_workshop/

I have a D3'' also and it does seem a bit gutting when you spend all that cash on a camera and then don't use half the features it has. Look at it like this... the features in the camera are there when you need them and don't have access to the cool software on your home PC, the rest of the time you shoot RAW so that you can use the really cool tools to extract everything you can from the data the camera recorded.
 
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Great comment, Mark. Very well put. (I took a couple of tries at saying something similar, but I couldn't get the tone anywhere close)

Nik, thanks for adding the info and the link....
 
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At the risk of taking this thread too far off track, this has struck a raw nerve and I need to wonder who actually controls my images. I bought the camera, the lens, the card and a bunch of other stuff. For Nikon or any other manufacturer to say that I then have to purchase their software to be able to utilize the maximum capabilities of the product I have purchased is total nonsense. This has been going on too long and it about time that the software developers and camera manufacturers begin to play nice. We would all benefit. I don't buy gas from Toyota and I don't want to buy software from Nikon.
 
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I'm with you on that Scott. If camera manufacturers want to use proprietary formats because it enhances the product then fine, but to charge for the software on top of that is just not on in my book.
 
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In the whole scheme of things this software technology is relatively new and is still being developed. I suspect that much of what you are asking for will be eventually be possible. Also, one day we should expect to be able to do everything we can now do in PS (and more !!) in LR non-destructively and all edit instructions (including layers etc.) saved onto a little xmp file. That may be some time off yet.
 
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If I can wade into this with my $'.'2 worth...

This drove me nuts with Lightroom until I figured out that RAW images won't contain this additional processing being done inside the camera. Of course, I had to find this out by searching online forums (fora?) such as this one. People on these forums state this is the most common complaint about LR; if so, why doesn't Adobe mention something in the product Help? Let's make it easier for people to learn this as quickly as they can, so they can opt to continue shooting in RAW or switch to JPEG. And while we're at it, why doesn't Nikon mention something as well? A simple note in the camera guide that says, if you're shooting in RAW, image processing software such as Adobe won't hold onto the presets in the camera.

Oh, but that would be a perfect world, so I suppose I should stop complaining...
 
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I never had an issue with this problem at all and I doubt that this is the most common problem people have with Lightroom.

It is a well known concept that Raw files are unprocessed images, which represent the "digital negative". In using a raw converter it is expected that no processing should be applied to an image unless you order the raw processor to do so.

This is written in thousands of resources in the internet and in books, and it would be a big fault of the program, if it would apply a "camera preset" to a raw image automatically or by default, because I would need to remove all this alteration in order to get a clean starting point.

I rather create my own Lightroom presets consciously, which I can apply during import.

Kind regards

Thomas
 
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hp5rebec, welcome to the forum!

Many people misunderstand that, so I wouldn't worry about it. Easy way to remember it is the fact it's called 'raw' as in uncooked. :D
 
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"This is written in thousands of resources in the internet and in books"

Thomas, much as I hate to disagree, gotta go with M on this one. This problem is not documented in "thousands" of places, in fact it is really rather hard to document for sure without some serious digging. Don't know about Canon, but Nikon images start off much better when opened in CaptureNX, which will include any camera settings. At any rate, the fact remains that we are being denied access to all of what our cameras can do. It would be nice to be able to chose in software whether to use those camera settings or not. Then we all would be happy.
 
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