Lr Desktop Very Slow

[DaveKlassen]

Lightroom Version Number

8.4

Cloud vs. Local

Local Folders

Operating System

1. macOS 15 Sequoia

I believe this issue must have been discussed in this forum, but I can't find any resolution. I have been using LrD for about a year, having switched over from LrC about a year ago. It has worked well for me. Recently it has started to perform very slowly when displaying images from within older (2 weeks and older) folders. Very confusing! I've done a "Clean Lightroom Install". I wondered if it was something to do with the Cache so I checked the box, "show all smart previews..." I'm using a MacBook Air with 16 GB and an Apple M3 chip. Thanks for any advice!

 

[Jim Wilde]

On my MBP M2 it's pretty near instant to populate the grid when selecting older folders, so I would expect the same on your system. I do have a lot more unified memory (96GB), which may be a factor. Could you post a screenshot of the LrD Preferences>Cache tab, that might give us some clues.

 

[clee01l]

I agree with Jim, 16GB of unified memory is not adequate to run either Lightroom app. I discovered this using classic when I had a 16GB M1 iMac. I now have a 64GB M2 Ultra Mac Studio and can run both Lightroom and Lightroom classic simultaneously with pretty much instantaneous response from both.

 

[DaveKlassen]

Interesting that you both run with more memory and it works for you. Here's a screen shot of my Cache tab:

 

[Jim Wilde]

How many images do you have stored in the cloud?

 

[clee01l]

Interesting that you both run with more memory and it works for you. Here's a screen shot of my Cache tab:
View attachment 26720

As a comparison, I have 25K images in the Cloud and this is what my Cache looks like:

How much free space is on "MacIntosh HD" for working storage and temporary files. What is the capacity of "MacIntosh HD"

I believe this might be your M3 chip specs
Apple M3 chip

• 8-core CPU with 4 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores
• 10-core GPU
• Hardware-accelerated ray tracing
• 16-core Neural Engine
• 100GB/s memory bandwidth
  

My M2 Ultra looks like this:

• Apple M2 Ultra chip
• 24-core CPU with 16 performance cores and 8 efficiency cores
• 60-core GPU
• 32-core Neural Engine
• 800GB/s memory bandwidth

Notice the number of cores and Memory bandwidth compared to your M1.

 

[DaveKlassen]

I have 158 images in the cloud. I haven't really started using the cloud after all of the years I was just using LrC so am on the old Photography plan which included 20 GB cloud storage. I've only used the Local tab.

 

[clee01l]

I have 158 images in the cloud. I haven't really started using the cloud after all of the years I was just using LrC so am on the old Photography plan which included 20 GB cloud storage. I've only used the Local tab.

Since you are not using the Adobe Cloud how many Images do you have in Lightroom Desktop local? And How much free space is on "MacIntosh HD" for working storage and temporary files? What is the capacity of "MacIntosh HD"

 

[DaveKlassen]

As I understand the system used by LrD in the Local tab, it does not have images "in" itself like LrC since it looks at any image you direct it to. However, when you make edits to an image, a sidecar is created. I assume that is what you mean by the first part of your question? Or don't I get it? There are just over 11,000 images which have been edited by LrD.

The thing is that when I bring in images from a photo event to my HD, then look at them in LrD, there is no lag. The system works great. The images in the folders I've worked on in the past two weeks have no problem coming up, and I can easily edit them. That's what made me think that it is a Cache problem.

Regarding my HD:

 

[clee01l]

There are just over 11,000 images which have been edited by LrD.

That is the number I was after. Apparently your Cache is limited to 86GB. Probably because your primary disk may be small. I believe the problem may go beyond cache. Inside "Lightroom Library.lrlibrary" there is a folder for previews. I'm not sure what regulates the size of this previews folder, but it looks to me like you don't have the preview that you need when you are scrolling through older images. Lightroom is required to locate the original file, convert it to RGB if it is a RAW file, apply your edits and construct a new preview. You don't have enough CPU and GPU cores or memory bandwidth to quickly handle the task.

 

[Jim Wilde]

That is the number I was after. Apparently your Cache is limited to 86GB. Probably because your primary disk may be small. I believe the problem may go beyond cache. Inside "Lightroom Library.lrlibrary" there is a folder for previews. I'm not sure what regulates the size of this previews folder, but it looks to me like you don't have the preview that you need when you are scrolling through older images. Lightroom is required to locate the original file, convert it to RGB if it is a RAW file, apply your edits and construct a new preview. You don't have enough CPU and GPU cores or memory bandwidth to quickly handle the task.

My interpretation of the posts is that @DaveKlassen is really only using the Local mode, i.e. those 11k images are NOT in the cloud. In which case, the Cache settings would be largely irrelevant as the delays would appear to be during reading the images from whatever local drive is being used for storing those 11k images. Also, it would seem that the internal system drive is only 250GB, which is worryingly low and might be causing shortages in working storage.

 

[clee01l]

My interpretation of the posts is that @DaveKlassen is really only using the Local mode, i.e. those 11k images are NOT in the cloud.

Once I was able to establish that, I turned the focus on local space. I did not catch that MacIntosh HD was only 250GB, a question asked and not answered directly.

 

[DaveKlassen]

The Mac HD space is actually 500GB. I only purchased this machine 6 months ago, a switch from PCs I've been using for the previous decades. I find it difficult to understand how an Apple M3 processor with 16GB RAM has a hard time generating the images LrD has already processed (more than two weeks previous). I wonder if there is some kind of setting that has to be changed which allows LrD to load images it has worked with more than 2 weeks previous. Why is it that it can view (and edit) fresh images instantly (like the 1k images I worked with today) normally, yet it has a hard time reading the instructions of what to do with the "older" images it's already edited?

I actually just upgraded my Adobe system to Lightroom (1TB). I also have intentions of purchasing an external drive which I will use to work with LrD images. Maybe that will solve this slowness problem?? Any recommendations for external drives?

I don't feel ready spend multiple $k to upgrade this MacBook Air that isn't a year old yet. It was supposed to last me for the next 15 years!

BTW, @Jim Wilde and @clee01l , I really appreciate both of you for working with me on this challenge!

 

[Jim Wilde]

Why is it that it can view (and edit) fresh images instantly (like the 1k images I worked with today) normally, yet it has a hard time reading the instructions of what to do with the "older" images it's already edited?

Possibly that's related to the fact that you are using the Local mode, rather than the cloud mode. AFAIK, when using the local mode no previews of the edited images are created (other than temporarily for use during the session, but are discarded on exit). Edits are automatically saved to XMP when you move to the next image, so in a couple of weeks time when you next access a folder of edited images LrD has to read the raw file, convert it to RGB and apply the edits that you applied (some of which might be significantly slower to deal with). Whereas with "new" images there is no XMP sidecar containing edits, so displaying those images should be much quicker (it may even initially display the embedded jpeg preview whilst the raw to RGB conversion is done in background).

 

[clee01l]

The Mac HD space is actually 500GB. I only purchased this machine 6 months ago, a switch from PCs I've been using for the previous decades. I find it difficult to understand how an Apple M3 processor with 16GB RAM has a hard time generating the images LrD has already processed (more than two weeks previous).

If this Screen shot comes from your Mac General Settings page, you only have 256 GB on MacIntosh HD. I have 1TG and wished I had opted for 2TB

If you right click on the MacIntosh HD item in the Left Finder panel and choose "GetInfo", you will see the actual capacity of the volume.

If you look at Adobe's Lightroom System requirements you will see that your computer barely meets the system requirements to run (not necessarily at peak performance). What Adobe calls "recommended" is actually what most of us call "minimum" .
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/system-requirements.html

I am sorry that you did not get good advice when moving from a WindowsOS to MacOS. The Silicon Macs (properly spec'd) out perform Intel computers for either OS. I switched for Windows to Mac about 16 years ago. My first Silicon Mac was an M1 with 16GB of unified memory. When I upgraded Lightroom to the latest version about 2 years ago It became apparent to me that the M1 that I had was not sufficient to run Lightroom (Classic) with the performance I had come to expect with previous Intel versions of MacOS.

I'm not sure where to tell you to go next with the hardware that you have. One thing I would recommend would be to get an external disk drive of at least 2TB capacity so that you can keep at least 100GB of the MacIntosh HD volume free for Working storage and Temporary files created by Lightroom and other apps.

The other suggestion (the one made by Jim Wilde) is to start using Cloud mode instead of Local mode. This would put all of your images in the cloud and probably provide better management of previews.

 

[DaveKlassen]

Possibly that's related to the fact that you are using the Local mode, rather than the cloud mode. AFAIK, when using the local mode no previews of the edited images are created (other than temporarily for use during the session, but are discarded on exit). Edits are automatically saved to XMP when you move to the next image, so in a couple of weeks time when you next access a folder of edited images LrD has to read the raw file, convert it to RGB and apply the edits that you applied (some of which might be significantly slower to deal with). Whereas with "new" images there is no XMP sidecar containing edits, so displaying those images should be much quicker (it may even initially display the embedded jpeg preview whilst the raw to RGB conversion is done in background).

That is a very interesting process you describe. I photograph in RAW and generate CR3 images which range in size from 25-33MB. The associated sidecar XMP files are bigger than I initially thought -- 1.5-1.7MB. As I recall when working in LrC, upon importing the images they would be converted from CR3 to RGB during the import process. I don't recall how LrC generated instructions to edit the image, but it was different than LrD and it was certainly much faster to view old images in LrC than what I'm experiencing now with LrD.

I'm still struggling to understand the 2-week time interval -- when I can open older images in LrD quickly, and when I can't.

 

[DaveKlassen]

If this Screen shot comes from your Mac General Settings page, you only have 256 GB on MacIntosh HD. I have 1TG and wished I had opted for 2TB
View attachment 26729
If you right click on the MacIntosh HD item in the Left Finder panel and choose "GetInfo", you will see the actual capacity of the volume.
View attachment 26730
If you look at Adobe's Lightroom System requirements you will see that your computer barely meets the system requirements to run (not necessarily at peak performance). What Adobe calls "recommended" is actually what most of us call "minimum" .
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/system-requirements.html

I am sorry that you did not get good advice when moving from a WindowsOS to MacOS. The Silicon Macs (properly spec'd) out perform Intel computers for either OS. I switched for Windows to Mac about 16 years ago. My first Silicon Mac was an M1 with 16GB of unified memory. When I upgraded Lightroom to the latest version about 2 years ago It became apparent to me that the M1 that I had was not sufficient to run Lightroom (Classic) with the performance I had come to expect with previous Intel versions of MacOS.

I'm not sure where to tell you to go next with the hardware that you have. One thing I would recommend would be to get an external disk drive of at least 2TB capacity so that you can keep at least 100GB of the MacIntosh HD volume free for Working storage and Temporary files created by Lightroom and other apps.

The other suggestion (the one made by Jim Wilde) is to start using Cloud mode instead of Local mode. This would put all of your images in the cloud and probably provide better management of previews.

You are very right! Thanks for correcting me @clee01l . Ideally I would have gone for a 1TB solid state HD (like I had in my PC, but $$ scared me off. I think I opted for the 256 GB because there was a sale on for that model and I figured I could run off an external solid state drive as per your suggestion. Given your other comments I believe it may make sense to clean all of my images off the Mac HD so that full 256 GB of space can be free for Working storage and temporary files.

I've hesitated to trust completely in a cloud based work flow. At times (like 3 weeks ago) I was in an area where I did not have access to internet. Maybe there was a work around but I hadn't figured that out before hand (we've become so dependent on the internet!!).

My current work flow (my work flow has changed as technology changes) involves processing the images, generating JPGs onto Google Drive and then copying the images from Google Drive into Google Photos. I find Google Photos has a range of advantages -- sharing across devices; searchable; nice to view; easy for clients to download from. I believe LR cloud has some of those advantages as well so I'm going to have to give that some good research and thought. A new work flow!

 

[clee01l]

You are very right! Thanks for correcting me @clee01l . Ideally I would have gone for a 1TB solid state HD (like I had in my PC, but $$ scared me off. I think I opted for the 256 GB because there was a sale on for that model and I figured I could run off an external solid state drive as per your suggestion. Given your other comments I believe it may make sense to clean all of my images off the Mac HD so that full 256 GB of space can be free for Working storage and temporary files.

I've hesitated to trust completely in a cloud based work flow. At times (like 3 weeks ago) I was in an area where I did not have access to internet. Maybe there was a work around but I hadn't figured that out before hand (we've become so dependent on the internet!!).

My current work flow (my work flow has changed as technology changes) involves processing the images, generating JPGs onto Google Drive and then copying the images from Google Drive into Google Photos. I find Google Photos has a range of advantages -- sharing across devices; searchable; nice to view; easy for clients to download from. I believe LR cloud has some of those advantages as well so I'm going to have to give that some good research and thought. A new work flow!

I agree that working with little or no internet can be more challenging.
I do it using Lightroom Mobile on my iPadPro. If there is no internet connection, Lightroom Mobile stores locally until it can sync to the Adobe Cloud. Of course LrM/LrD can’t access any older images without an internet connection unless that are already stored on the device in some form. But When I am in the field I’m more interested in new images imported from my Nikon. If available, I usually use the hotel internet at night to sync my daily shots. With the Added benefit that these are at home waiting for me on my “real” computer and Lightroom Classic when I return.

For internet sharing, I have tried them all, Amazon, iCloud, Flickr, SmugMug. Google Photos and its precursors. Non integrate as cleanly as Adobe Portfolio. (Free with your plan). I use it to seamlessly integrate Lightroom Albums. I registered my own domain but Adobe is the host site. You can see here at https://cletuslee.work


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DaveKlassen]

You've got some beautiful images, Cletus! The format and presentation in Lightroom Albums is simple and presents well. I think it links seamlessly with LrD. Definitely have to look into this more.

Over the next weeks I"m going to change my "system" as per the above discussion. If this thread is still live I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again for taking the time to give feedback and suggestions!

 

[DaveKlassen]

@clee01l , @Jim Wilde , I just wanted to update you on what has worked for me to deal with the "slow" challenge I was having, based on the trouble shooting you both gave me. I purchased a SanDisk 4TB Extreme Portable SSD. I had no idea it would be that tiny -- it weighs 50 grams and measured 4" x 2" x 3/8". I copied my images over from the laptop to the SanDisk, cleaned up the laptop HD and it now works as fast as what I believe it should using LrD. Impressive! Now to start including Adobe Cloud in my work flow.

BTW, I figured out that there is a direct link to upload images Adobe Cloud to Google Photos.

Thanks again!