Lightroom>raw file>edit in>goto Photoshop>raw file does not open in Camera Raw

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I am shooting with Olympus>ORF Raw file. If I go to edit in>PS>the file does not open automatically in Camera Raw. This all started in the latest update to LR. Has anyone noticed this as well?
 

Colin Grant

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Just to add to the above. I do agree that the layer (not effects layers) functionality of ON1 might be similar to Ps.
 
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ON1 is a raw editor and not a pixel editor like Ps (although it can work on none raw files too). It edits raw files in the develop panel and the effects panel. The effects panel is layered filters that apart from some excellent masking also provides for blending of the layers. At this stage we are still editing raw data with edits being retained is a sidecar file. I believe that even when switching to the more traditional layer functionality ON1 is still editing the raw data, although it does save that out to a proprietory "dot onone" file to preserve the layers. The nature of that file is still a mystery to me and I have enquired of the devs.
Nobody is disputing that On1 is a raw editor, but Photoshop can be used as a raw editor too if you open your raw file from Lightroom or ACR as a smart object. And that was my point: it seems to me (from the On1 website, not from own experience) that if I want to replace a sky in On1, the base image would be a raw file, but the sky image would not be a raw file. In Photoshop on the other hand I can use a sky image that is also a 'raw smart object'. The only thing is that I would have to do the sky replacement manually by creating my own masks, because the new 'Sky Replacement' feature in Photoshop does not support 'raw smart objects' as skies. If you are interested, I would be able to suggest a work around which makes even that possible.
 
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ON1 is a raw editor and not a pixel editor like Ps (although it can work on none raw files too). It edits raw files in the develop panel and the effects panel.

There are no apps that edit Raw Photosite values. A photos site in a RAW file will contain a number value like 0.987. This is in no way a color pixel. It is assigned a color value depending on which color filter has been placed over it. It takes 4 photo sites to make up one pixel There are twice as many green filtered photo sites as there are red or blue filtered photo sites
Read this link to understand the Bayer Filter applied to photo sites and how an RGB pixel is constructed. There are other filters that are applied in some cameras, but the principle is the same

Every photo editor including ON1 and Photoshop works with RGB pixels even though the source file might be RAW, there is an intermediate step the creates an RGB image data block. It is this data that the photo editor works with.


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Colin Grant

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Nobody is disputing that On1 is a raw editor, but Photoshop can be used as a raw editor too if you open your raw file from Lightroom or ACR as a smart object. And that was my point: it seems to me (from the On1 website, not from own experience) that if I want to replace a sky in On1, the base image would be a raw file, but the sky image would not be a raw file. In Photoshop on the other hand I can use a sky image that is also a 'raw smart object'. The only thing is that I would have to do the sky replacement manually by creating my own masks, because the new 'Sky Replacement' feature in Photoshop does not support 'raw smart objects' as skies. If you are interested, I would be able to suggest a work around which makes even that possible.
Is Ps editing the raw in a Smart Object then? That is something I did not know. I thought it was just applying ACR at pixel level. That workaround would be ingeresting ( sky replacement). I do not do it much but when I do.........
 
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Is Ps editing the raw in a Smart Object then? That is something I did not know. I thought it was just applying ACR at pixel level. That workaround would be ingeresting ( sky replacement). I do not do it much but when I do.........
Yes. If you send a raw file as smart object to Photoshop, then you will get an embedded raw file as smart object layer. Double clicking the smart object layer will open Camera Raw so you can edit the raw file.

The work around would be as follows:
1: Send the base raw file to Photoshop as smart object.
2: Use ‘Sky Replacement’ and select a sky that looks similar in color to the raw sky image you want to use.
3: Send the sky raw file as smart object to Photoshop. It will be opened in a new document.
4: Drag & drop the sky smart object into your base document and place it directly above the sky layer that Photoshop created.
5: Drag the mask of the sky layer and drop it onto the sky smart object layer.
6: Delete the old sky layer.
 

Colin Grant

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Thanks that is a useful tip. So Ps can edit raw non-destructively but it will not include any Lr edits presumably as they will not be sent across with the raw? Devil's advocate and all that, this being the case and given the power of Ps, especially when combined with stuff like the TK7 panel, there is perhaps a question over whether to to edit in Lr at all. Or at least not bothering to edit in Lr if Ps is going to be needed.
 
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Actually, the Lightroom edits are sent across with the raw file, so if you double click the smart object then Camera Raw will open with the Lightroom edits in place. How else can the Photoshop file be identical in appearance to the raw file in Lightroom? You could say that the ‘Open as smart object in Photoshop’ menu makes Photoshop work very much like On1, but you’ll find that Photoshop is way more advanced than On1.

The reason to edit in Lightroom is simple, at least to me. The reason is that most of my images do not need anything else, and certainly not layers. So 98% of my images are never sent to Photoshop, and if I was using On1 rather than Lightroom, then I would have said that I do not use the layers function with 98% of my images.
 

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You did notice that my reference to Lr edits moving across was a question did you not? And this was never a debate about whether Ps was better, I have always believed that to be the case, although a significant amount of its capability remains unused in my case. The only advantage in doing edits in Lr so far as I can see is I have it. I could happily work with Ps alone with something like Bridge as my dam. That said, I am starting to look at syncing. That could change my workflow driver significantly.

Incidentally the main upside in ON1 is the effects module imo. The layer based approach is in my view much easier to work with for local adjustments. The downside is the ON1 dam is awful (Imo).
 

Colin Grant

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Oh yes, in response to your rather flippant comment. If the raw file was not edited in Lr then of course it would look the same in Ps. If the edits were not being transferred ( you say they are so fine) it would be rather foolish to edit in Lr first would it not! You do love twisting things.
 
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Could we keep this conversation friendly and refrain from personal attacks? I'm trying to explain to you how things work (or can work). I do not constantly read all previous 34 messages to see if something was already mentioned or asked in a different way. If that is 'twisting things' in your opinion, then I apologise for that. It's not intentional.
 
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I finally had a chance to check ON1 Photo Raw and the layers feature. So while working in layers I get two popups that have some relevance to the discussion. Of note, the layers info is contained in a file * .ONPhoto". See the attached screen captures. I have also been unable to locate one of the files to get info about size etc.
 

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I finally had a chance to check ON1 Photo Raw and the layers feature. So while working in layers I get two popups that have some relevance to the discussion. Of note, the layers info is contained in a file * .ONPhoto". See the attached screen captures. I have also been unable to locate one of the files to get info about size etc.

So to summarize. The “*.ONPhoto” format is a proprietary file format. It may continue many data blocks (layers) and one of these data blocks could be the original unedited mosaiced RAW data. Any other “edited” layers would be RGB data.

With the exception of being proprietary, this is not unlike the public Adobe DNG file format.


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