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Library module Lightroom Metadada bug?

chepe.nicoli

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2024
Messages
14
Location
Mexico City
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
Lightroom Version Number
12.3
Operating System
  1. Windows 11
For years, I have been using Lightroom, among other things, to add data to my photos, such as title, description, and keywords. I have always been careful to have the option "Automatically write changes into XMP" on "catalog settings".

But now, when I edit some photos and after adding some data like the title, when I upload them to some sites that require this data, the images lack these metadata, even though the aforementioned option is selected by default and even when I manually select some photos and choose "Metadata - Save metadata to file" from the menu.

The strangest thing is that after editing about 40 photos, only some of them retain the metadata.

Additionally, now XMP files appear in my JPG folder, whereas before, they were only generated in my RAW image folder.

I understand that the XMP file contains information about the image, but what LR used to do was save the metadata within the image itself and not in an XMP file.

Any idea what's happening or what I'm doing wrong? I insist that I am not new to using LR and have been doing this process for years, and now I am encountering this problema.

Please look this video that shows the problema.
 
I don't see any attached video so can't comment on that.

I'm not seeing any XMP sidecar files associated edited JPG's or DNG's even after saving metadata to disk files.

Perhaps if LrCdoes not have "Modify" permissions to theJPG or DNG file, perhaps it is writing an XMP sidecare file instead when the OS rejects the modify command. Haven't heard of it doing this so just thinking out loud here. Have you given LrC Full Disk Access?
 
I don't see any attached video so can't comment on that.

I'm not seeing any XMP sidecar files associated edited JPG's or DNG's even after saving metadata to disk files.

Perhaps if LrCdoes not have "Modify" permissions to theJPG or DNG file, perhaps it is writing an XMP sidecare file instead when the OS rejects the modify command. Haven't heard of it doing this so just thinking out loud here. Have you given LrC Full Disk Access?
Click on this video link to show the video on youtube. Thanks for your help!
 
I see what you mean. Try modifying the title/caption on #004, re-save metadata to disk and see if anything changes.

also turn on the metadata out of sync badge so you can see if Lrc thinks the metadata has changed or not.
 
For years, I have been using Lightroom, among other things, to add data to my photos, such as title, description, and keywords. I have always been careful to have the option "Automatically write changes into XMP" on "catalog settings".

But now, when I edit some photos and after adding some data like the title, when I upload them to some sites that require this data, the images lack these metadata, even though the aforementioned option is selected by default and even when I manually select some photos and choose "Metadata - Save metadata to file" from the menu.

The strangest thing is that after editing about 40 photos, only some of them retain the metadata.

Additionally, now XMP files appear in my JPG folder, whereas before, they were only generated in my RAW image folder.

I understand that the XMP file contains information about the image, but what LR used to do was save the metadata within the image itself and not in an XMP file.

Any idea what's happening or what I'm doing wrong? I insist that I am not new to using LR and have been doing this process for years, and now I am encountering this problema.

Please look this video that shows the problema.
Save metadata to files saves them to the original images. I assume you sent derivative images (exported images) to those sites, not originals. That means you must check your export settings.
 
I found a bug .... years and years ago ... where the following sequence fails to update the metadata in the exported file.
I reported it multiple times.... as it negatively impacted my workflow.....
As far as I know... it was never fixed..... I stopped checking because my workaround is engrained in my dna at this stage.

Here is the sequence.

  • Edit image as normal.
  • Edit metadata as normal. (eg Title = 'Funset At Dublin Bay')
  • Export to say jpg
  • Discover typo
  • Correct Typo (eg Title = 'Sunset At Dublin Bay')
  • Export jpg again, overwriting existing jpg.
Result ... Metadata for exported jpg is not updated. Metadata in Catalog for exported jpg retains old faulty metadata.

I have tested this so often to check if it has been fixed ..... that I have totally given up.

My workaround workflow.
  • Edit image as normal.
  • Edit metadata as normal. (eg Title = 'Funset At Dublin Bay')
  • Export to say jpg
  • Discover typo
  • Delete exported jpg (and yes remove prev exported jpg from disk).
  • Export as normal.
My assumption....
The logic within the Lr Export module works as follows.
a. We need to export this image as jpg.
b. Oh.. this image exists already (on disk and in the catalog)
c. So we better export a new jpg as requested....
d. But as Catalog entry exists already the process to update the metadata is skipped.
e. Exported jpg contains old metadata (or no metadata if none entered) and exported catalog settings contain the old metadata.

I am not sure if this is relevant to this case... but you can test it out to be sure....

If this post gathers any interest .... I will retest in the next few days, to check if the bug still exists.
 
I see what you mean. Try modifying the title/caption on #004, re-save metadata to disk and see if anything changes.

also turn on the metadata out of sync badge so you can see if Lrc thinks the metadata has changed or not.
No Califdan, no luck.

I am finding some xmp files on my jpg folder... weird.

1717003011513.png
 
Save metadata to files saves them to the original images. I assume you sent derivative images (exported images) to those sites, not originals. That means you must check your export settings.
No, my workflow is edit RAW files on PS and save them as JPG on an specific folder, I add this folder lo Lrc and edit metada and from here upload to server.
 
I found a bug .... years and years ago ... where the following sequence fails to update the metadata in the exported file.
I reported it multiple times.... as it negatively impacted my workflow.....
As far as I know... it was never fixed..... I stopped checking because my workaround is engrained in my dna at this stage.

Here is the sequence.

  • Edit image as normal.
  • Edit metadata as normal. (eg Title = 'Funset At Dublin Bay')
  • Export to say jpg
  • Discover typo
  • Correct Typo (eg Title = 'Sunset At Dublin Bay')
  • Export jpg again, overwriting existing jpg.
Result ... Metadata for exported jpg is not updated. Metadata in Catalog for exported jpg retains old faulty metadata.

I have tested this so often to check if it has been fixed ..... that I have totally given up.

My workaround workflow.
  • Edit image as normal.
  • Edit metadata as normal. (eg Title = 'Funset At Dublin Bay')
  • Export to say jpg
  • Discover typo
  • Delete exported jpg (and yes remove prev exported jpg from disk).
  • Export as normal.
My assumption....
The logic within the Lr Export module works as follows.
a. We need to export this image as jpg.
b. Oh.. this image exists already (on disk and in the catalog)
c. So we better export a new jpg as requested....
d. But as Catalog entry exists already the process to update the metadata is skipped.
e. Exported jpg contains old metadata (or no metadata if none entered) and exported catalog settings contain the old metadata.

I am not sure if this is relevant to this case... but you can test it out to be sure....

If this post gathers any interest .... I will retest in the next few days, to check if the bug still exists.
Thanks, will try it.
 
understand that the XMP file contains information about the image, but what LR used to do was save the metadata within the image itself and not in an XMP file.
Certain file formats are extensible and non proprietary. JPEGs, TIFFs and DNGs fall into that category. For these an XMP section is created (if not already) in the file header. For proprietary RAW files like this from a Canon, Nikon, Sony or similar camera, the XMP data can not be written to the proprietary format. So, a separate text file is created. This is the XMP file that you seem to be having problems with.

An XMP update occurs in LrC when the the. Catalog Settings Metadata checkbox labeled "Automatically Write Changes into XMP" is checked or in certain instant where a RAW file is sent to another Adobe app like Photoshop.

On Export, when you have indicated in the Export Dialog Metadata Section what metadata to include, the XMP will be written into the derivatve file header. A Separate XMP file is ONLY created to accompany proprietary RAW files. You can not create a Proprietary RAW file on export.

The Above describes how Lightroom Classic works. This is not what you are describing. I have exported JPEGs and LrC performs as designed. Now, what are you doing different?
You do not specify that your files are generated as an Export and you are not clear on the status of the checkbox labeled "Automatically Write Changes into XMP". Please clearly state the status if this checkbox.
As "Automatically Write Changes into XMP" has nothing to do with Exports why did you include it in your problem description?
Can you post a screen shot of the metadata panel of the Export dialog that you used?
One other thing, Since separate XMP files are only created for proprietary RAW file formats, in the example "Florencia_033.jpg" is there a corresponding RAW file of the same namd in that folder? (e.g. "Florencia_033.CR2", "Florencia_033.NEF", or "Florencia_033.ARW")

And Lastly, "Florencia_033.xmp" is a structured text file. you can open ie in ay text viewer like Notepad.exe. What are the contents of this file? Pleas append the contents to your reply.

One other thing to question. You lis as your Lightroom Classic version 12.3. This is over a year out of date. Why are you not update to the latest version (13.)?
 
Ok....

I uninstalled version 13.3 and reinstalled it, but it still wouldn't save the metadata in the jpg file. So, I uninstalled it and installed the previous version, 13.2, and problem solved: any changes to the metadata are correctly written to the jpg.

By the way, I had noticed another bug in version 13.3, which was that when synchronizing a folder, Lrc would freeze if the "Show import dialog before importing" option was enabled. Without this option, synchronization worked without issues.

Since reverting to version 13.2, the synchronization problem has been fixed.

Thanks to everyone for your responses; it's clear that version 13.3 has some issues.

Cheers!!!
 
Thanks to everyone for your responses; it's clear that version 13.3 has some issues.
Creating spurious xmp files is not one that anyone else has reported. We still don't know why you and appently you alone are having this problem. Please answer the questions that I asked in my last post if you would like to get this fixed?
 
I'm with @clee01l on this. Of course it could be that you are just the first to notice and report it and that would be good to know as well.

However, as your workflow starts out in PS with the RAW file, is it possible that a Save happened there (or in Bridge) that created the XMP before you saved the image as a JPG and brought it into LrC? You might want to try importing the RAW into LrC, and then using LrC to pass it over to PS and allow PS to send it back to LrC as a Jpg when you close the image window in PS and see if that fixes the problem.
 
The Above describes how Lightroom Classic works. This is not what you are describing. I have exported JPEGs and LrC performs as designed. Now, what are you doing different?

I am not exporting JPG from RAW, I first load raw file in PS and save as a JPG in a folder, this folder is synced to Lrc once I have finished in PS.

You do not specify that your files are generated as an Export and you are not clear on the status of the checkbox labeled "Automatically Write Changes into XMP". Please clearly state the status if this checkbox.

That checkbox is always ON.

As "Automatically Write Changes into XMP" has nothing to do with Exports why did you include it in your problem description?
Again, I am not exporting JPGs, maybe my bad english was undestood. I save JPG from raw files edited in Photoshop.

Can you post a screen shot of the metadata panel of the Export dialog that you used?
One other thing, Since separate XMP files are only created for proprietary RAW file formats, in the example "Florencia_033.jpg" is there a corresponding RAW file of the same namd in that folder? (e.g. "Florencia_033.CR2", "Florencia_033.NEF", or "Florencia_033.ARW")

And Lastly, "Florencia_033.xmp" is a structured text file. you can open ie in ay text viewer like Notepad.exe. What are the contents of this file? Pleas append the contents to your reply.
Florencia_033.jpg has a correspondig xmp file, here is attached to this reply.
One other thing to question. You lis as your Lightroom Classic version 12.3. This is over a year out of date. Why are you not update to the latest versión (13.)?
My mistake, I was using versión 13.3, no 12.3.

Cheers!!!
 

Attachments

  • Florencia_033.xmp
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I'm with @clee01l on this. Of course it could be that you are just the first to notice and report it and that would be good to know as well.

However, as your workflow starts out in PS with the RAW file, is it possible that a Save happened there (or in Bridge) that created the XMP before you saved the image as a JPG and brought it into LrC? You might want to try importing the RAW into LrC, and then using LrC to pass it over to PS and allow PS to send it back to LrC as a Jpg when you close the image window in PS and see if that fixes the problema.
I am sure the XMP is created after I entered metadata in Lrc.

As I posted earlier, I am using versión 13.2 now, no more issues working with metadata ;)

Cheers!
 
Is there any possibility Lr is treating the Raw and the Jpg as a valid raw/jpg pair. That might explain the creation of the Xmp file.
 
Again, I am not exporting JPGs, maybe my bad english was undestood. I save JPG from raw files edited in Photoshop.
You started this in a Lightroom forum not the Photoshop forum. https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/forums/photoshop-external-editors.67/. A derivative file is a file that uses data for the original and writes out the changes as a new file. In Lightroom this is called Exporting, In Photoshop you would use the "Save As". function to create a similar derivative. Because this thread references Lightroom and is in a Lightroom forum, this was confusing. A RAW file either sent to Photoshop or opened in ACR in Photoshop need a repository for the Edit Adjustments used by Photoshop. This is where the. XMP was generated.
The information contained in the xmp file reveals two important things:
xmp:CreatorTool="Adobe Photoshop 25.7 (Windows)"
This says that Photoshop was the app that created the xmp file. This is the name of the original RAW file
xmpMM:preservedFileName="IMG_5395.CR2" ...
crs:RawFileName="Florencia_033.jpg"
This is the current name of the file. Somewhere you changed the name of the CR2 file to have a JPG extension. This is NOT a JPEG file It is still a RAW Canon file and Photoshop/ACR is smart enough to recognise that even though you changed the extension. XMP files are created only for RAW Proprietary file types The three letters on the end do not mean anything and do not make this file a JPEG.

My remaining questions are these : Why did you rename the RAW file and give it a new different extension? And How did you get the file into Photoshop ? Using the Lightroom Edit0in function? Or open the file directly in Photoshop ?
 
My remaining questions are these : Why did you rename the RAW file and give it a new different extension? And How did you get the file into Photoshop ? Using the Lightroom Edit0in function? Or open the file directly in P
I did not rename the raw files.

1. Copy from mem card to folder all cr2 files.
2. Add folder to Lrc ( I keep original raw files on their own respective folder)
3. Review and select the nice ones.
4. Open images in PS using EDIT IN
5. Adjust leves, retouch, crop, etc.
6. Save as JPG files on my main JPG folder for selected images giving them a descriptive name.
7. In Lrc, sync that folder to add new ones to the cat.
8. Add metadata.
9. Using file explorer (or any other file management) copy the ones I want to upload to a temp folder to keep things organized.

Thats my workflow.

Cheers!
 

Attachments

  • 1717017394827.png
    1717017394827.png
    94.1 KB · Views: 16
Is there any possibility Lr is treating the Raw and the Jpg as a valid raw/jpg pair. That might explain the creation of the Xmp file.
Maybe, but why, when moving the jpg files from one machine to another an adding them to a new empty catalog the metadata problem persists?
 
Maybe, but why, when moving the jpg files from one machine to another an adding them to a new empty catalog the metadata problem persists?
I do not understand the multi machine scenario.... but maybe... the metadata may be in the catalog but not inside the jpg. The bug I found would create that scenario, there maybe other scenarios / workflows which may create such a case.

I need to read your original post again and consider further.
 
I do not understand the multi machine scenario....
Using 2nd machine from home to figure out whats happening. In fact, for my final files, I store them on my OneDrive, but for discard sync errors I did make my test using usb mems.
 
I did not rename the raw files.

1. Copy from mem card to folder all cr2 files.
2. ...
4. Open images in PS using EDIT IN
5...
6. Save as JPG files on my main JPG folder for selected images giving them a descriptive name.
Photoshop did not rename the RAW file with a JPG extension without someone's help.
If you open a CR2 file using the edit in function in Lightroom, it will create the XMP file, This is not the XMP file that you show as createdyout When the Save menu item is chosen, it will be Saved either as PSD or TIFF and as a derivative of the original CR2 file. Using "Save As" will let you save in other file types. I was surprised to find the Jpeg is not one of the choices unless I use the legacy "SaveAs" option.

It appears that you did not save a derivative file but somehow changed the name extension of the CR2 file to JPG.
Maybe, but why, when moving the jpg files from one machine to another an adding them to a new empty catalog the metadata problem persists?
The answer is that you do not have JPEG files. You have CR2 files with an extension of ".jpg"
If you atart with the original CR2 file, import that into Lightroom, make edits adjustments to the RAW image and send that image to Photoshop, you will get an RGB image in Photo shop that will not have an extension showing in the PS file listing. When you save that file, using Save As and choose JPEG as the file type, you will save a derivative file that has the jpg extension.
.
 
I do not understand the multi machine scenario.... but maybe... the metadata may be in the catalog but not inside the jpg.
If you look at the xmp file contents that the OP provided, you will see that the file with a ".jpg" extension is a RAW file originally named with a CR2 extension.
 
To narrow down whether this a bug that can be reproduced (and thus one to which Adobe will pay attention), please do this:

1. In Library, select a few of the JPEGs that are getting XMP side cars written when you change metadata in the JPEGs.

2. Do File > Export As Catalog, with these options:

1717024188533.png


3. In File Explorer, right-click the exported catalog and do Compress To Zip File. This will save an unmodified copy of the exported catalog.

4. Open the exported catalog in LR and modify the caption of one of the JPEGs. Does it create an XMP file? If so, upload the zip file to Dropbox, Google Drive, or similar and post the sharing link.

If not, then there's something very particular to your main catalog and/or workflow that none of us understand.
 
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