Lightroom Denoise Question

[Wildeye]

Operating System

1. macOS 15 Sequoia

As a wildlife photographer I often have to work in poor light with high shutter speeds. Is it best to de-noise the raw file first, or do some basic processing (cropping, highlights, shadows etc) then de-noise. Really appreciate any advice on this.

 

[clee01l]

The recommendation is to do DeNoise first. In reality, It does not matter If you apply edits first, then DeNoise, Lightroom will apply the DeNoise to the original RAW file then apply the same edit adjustments to the derivative DNG.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Right now, AI Denoise creates a new file and that file is created from the unedited original. That means it makes sense to Denoise first, but Clee is right that it doesn’t really matter, because any edits are copied over to the new file. As you can see from the latest Camera Raw, Denoise will be a normal non-destructive edit slider sometime in the future.

 

[Zenon]

I don't who this fellow is or how accurate this is. I usually do my basic edits first mostly because Auto and personal tweaks in the Presence panel automatically apply at import. I'm just as comfortable applying Denoise AI before basic edits as well. I always apply Denoise AI before I go into Masking. I think I recall seeing other videos about this but I only bookmarked this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAW1S6dnXok

 

[clee01l]

Right now, AI Denoise creates a new file and that file is created from the unedited original. That means it makes sense to Denoise first, but Clee is right that it doesn’t really matter, because any edits are copied over to the new file. As you can see from the latest Camera Raw, Denoise will be a normal non-destructive edit slider sometime in the future.

I usually apply other edits to an image before deciding to see if Denoise improves the image or if I really want to keep the images. After all if Denoise is not necessary, you have eliminated the (at present) need for a derivative DNG and the time needed to create the DeNoise image.


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[Johan Elzenga]

Yes, I do the same. I use Denoise very little, and decide if it's needed after I have done the basic edits.

 

[Zenon]

I'm the same. I only use it if needed. I'm sure looking forward to when LrC gets the non-destructive mode.

 

[Gnits]

Your approach to Denoise may vary depending on the nature of images you need to process.

95% of the time I will not use Denoise… or may use it for a few images. In this scenario I would probably explore my normal settings approach before deciding to DeNoise…and as my settings at that point get carried into the resultant DNG I am happy.

On the other hand, I imported a batch of images from a vip social event.. and I could see a major error with flash settings and most images looked jet
black at point of import. In this case I batch Denoise the full card of images first and then when editing individual images I could decide more easily which images were worth working on. I just let Denoise run for whatever time it needed…. and was thrilled that Denoise saved a certain disaster.

 

[Zenon]

The last time I shot an event Auto and ISO Adaptive preset were applied at import. I sure wish those options in LrC were available 10 years ago. These days for my hobby work I use Adobe Neutral and as I said Auto is automatically applied at import. Files are so flat using Adobe Neutral I can't get past how they look at first . At least they have some life to them. Then I start tweaking.

 

[Conrad Chavez]

If you want to know what Adobe recommends about where Denoise should be in the edit order, the quote below is from the Denoise Demystified article written by Eric Chan, one of the lead engineers. Note what he says about applying Denoise to an image that already has edits.

Order matters. I recommend applying Denoise early in the workflow, before healing and masking. AI-driven, image-based features such as Content-Aware Remove and Select Subject can be affected by noise, so it’s best to use those features on a clean starting point. If you do run Denoise on an image that already has Content-Aware Remove settings or AI masks, Denoise will automatically update those spots and masks. This is handy, but be aware that the content of those spots and masks may change unexpectedly, so it’s best to review the results carefully.

On a related note, Denoise can sometimes subtly change the overall tonality of the photo, especially by cleaning up the shadows. If your source photo already had major tonal adjustments, such as with Shadows, Clarity, or Dehaze, you may need to revisit those settings after applying Denoise.

For more along those lines, read the Best Practices heading near the bottom of that article.

 

[Zenon]

If you want to know what Adobe advises, the quote below is from the Denoise Demystified article written by Eric Chan, one of the lead engineers. Note what he says about applying Denoise to an image that already has edits.



For more along those lines, read the Best Practices heading near the bottom of that article.

If you want to know what Adobe advises, the quote below is from the Denoise Demystified article written by Eric Chan, one of the lead engineers. Note what he says about applying Denoise to an image that already has edits.



For more along those lines, read the Best Practices heading near the bottom of that article.

I have that link and likely where I got that info from as well. It's been a long while since I looked at it.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Bottom line: if you decide the image needs to be denoised after you already made some edits, then keep your eyes open and look carefully at the resulting DNG. If you see anything unexpected, then simply change it. That is what non-destructive edits are for. If you know that the image will need to be denoised before you have started your edits, then Denoise first and edit the DNG.

 

[dominique.gascon]

The recommendation is to do DeNoise first. In reality, It does not matter If you apply edits first, then DeNoise, Lightroom will apply the DeNoise to the original RAW file then apply the same edit adjustments to the derivative DNG.

Lightrooom does not apply Denoise to the original RAW files, but to the files with all the Develop adjustment, in a sense "burning them in" the DNG file, where they will be impossible to modify. It thus make more sense to Denoise first and apply the development afterwards.

 

[clee01l]

Lightrooom does not apply Denoise to the original RAW files, but to the files with all the Develop adjustment, in a sense "burning them in" the DNG file, where they will be impossible to modify. It thus make more sense to Denoise first and apply the development afterwards.

Try again!. Lightroom only can apply DeNoise to RAW files not to RGB files. The develop adjustments are applied in an order determined by Adobe. And Adobe has been clear that DeNoise will be applied first, then the other develop adjustments on the RGB DNG file

 

[dominique.gascon]

Try again!. Lightroom only can apply DeNoise to RAW files not to RGB files. The develop adjustments are applied in an order determined by Adobe. And Adobe has been clear that DeNoise will be applied first, then the other develop adjustments on the RGB DNG file

I just did!.. I did a test before posting and here are the results:

On the left, the original RAW file, with all the develop adjustments in the history (note an extreme exposure adjustment at the end to make sure that there is no confusion) and on the right, the history of the enhanced file. The 2 images are identical and there are no adjustments in the history of the enhanced that allow to revert modifications made in the RAW file. CQFD.

 

[clee01l]

I just did!.. I did a test before posting and here are the results:
View attachment 24888View attachment 24889
On the left, the original RAW file, with all the develop adjustments in the history (note an extreme exposure adjustment at the end to make sure that there is no confusion) and on the right, the history of the enhanced file. The 2 images are identical and there are no adjustments in the history of the enhanced that allow to revert modifications made in the RAW file. CQFD.

The Adjustments are applied to the DNG just after it is Denoised. You do not see them as history steps but they are applied

Conrad provides a link to the Article by Eric Chan (Mr Adobe ;-) ), Denoise De Mystified The critical statement taken from that article is: "As with previous Enhance features, any adjustments you made to the source photo will automatically be carried over to the enhanced DNG. "

 

[Johan Elzenga]

The history tells you what happened to this image. This image is new. The only thing that happened was that all the edits of the original image were copied over to this new image in one go. That is what the history tells you and as that is a part of the Denoise process, it shows just that process.

 

[Philippe Coudé du Foresto]

You still can revert the exposure setting. Go to the exposure slider, you will see it is at the same valueon the DNG than on the RAW (+2.79 in your example). You can therefore move it back to 0 on the DNG.

 

[dominique.gascon]

The Adjustments are applied to the DNG just after it is Denoised. You do not see them as history steps but they are applied

Conrad provides a link to the Article by Eric Chan (Mr Adobe ;-) ), Denoise De Mystified The critical statement taken from that article is: "As with previous Enhance features, any adjustments you made to the source photo will automatically be carried over to the enhanced DNG. "

I stand (embarassingly) corrected. I noticed after posting. Some edits may not be modifiable though, like the replace tools.

 

[Zenon]

I stand (embarassingly) corrected. I noticed after posting. Some edits may not be modifiable though, like the replace tools.

Yes I've timed myself out before. It's no biggie. It all gets sorted out.