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Lens correction puzzle

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I'm shooting with a Nikon D7200, set to produce both a RAW image and its JPG counterpart. When I import these into LR Classic (11.4) using a preset that applies a lens correction, the two versions are slightly different. One is slightly "bowed" relative to the other. If I uncheck the lens correction in the Lens Correction panel, they are exactly the same. I don't understand why the lens correction is different for the RAW and JPG versions. Weirdly, with my 18-200 mm DX lens, the differences are most pronounced in the 40-60 mm focal length range, and barely noticeable at the extremes.
 
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To be more specific, the lens correction I apply is in the Lens Corrections panel, in the tab "Profile" and the box "Enable Profile Corrections". The two cases mentioned are with this box checked ("ON") or not ("OFF"), and are RAW ON / jpg ON or RAW OFF / jpg OFF. In the latter case, the images look the same. In the two heterologous cases, RAW ON / jpg OFF and RAW OFF / jpg ON, the two images look even more different from each other. It's hard to describe the effect of applying the correction, and I'm not sure if it's the same for all images. But, at least for some images, when the correction is applied, the center of the image seems to retreat slightly. And it seems a bit more retreated in the RAW image than in the jpg.
 
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I'm shooting with a Nikon D7200, set to produce both a RAW image and its JPG counterpart. When I import these into LR Classic (11.4) using a preset that applies a lens correction, the two versions are slightly different. One is slightly "bowed" relative to the other. If I uncheck the lens correction in the Lens Correction panel, they are exactly the same. I don't understand why the lens correction is different for the RAW and JPG versions. Weirdly, with my 18-200 mm DX lens, the differences are most pronounced in the 40-60 mm focal length range, and barely noticeable at the extremes.
Lens corrections are applied to only the raw file. The idea is that the camera manufacturer often already corrects the jpeg, but that is not necessarily always the case. And if the manufacturer does correct the jpegs, then this correction is done with the manufacturer’s profile while the raw file is corrected with Adobe’s profile. That can make a difference.
 
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Lens corrections are applied to only the raw file. The idea is that the camera manufacturer often already corrects the jpeg, but that is not necessarily always the case. And if the manufacturer does correct the jpegs, then this correction is done with the manufacturer’s profile while the raw file is corrected with Adobe’s profile. That can make a difference.
Johan, I've always been curious about this, and I've seen it explained on DPR MF Board different ways by different people, but let's tale Fuji for instance with their GFX cameras and Fuji GF lenses. I was told that Fuji apples certain correction (various types of known distortion and aberrations) to the GF lens lineup (each lens differently) and writes those in camera to the raw file and the in-camera jpegs that are produced. Adobe then has the option of whether or not to honor those corrections. Adobe works with Fuji and LR reads the Fuji-provided correction and when you open the raw file, the corrections are there. In the lens correction panel, you see as default the lens name and camera make and the "enable profile corrections" box is checked. I remember one guy told me that you can't turn these corrections off. They are automatically applied. Bust played around with a bunch of previously edited files and switching off the enable profile correction button seems to do nothing with any kind of distortion but the histo does change and the image seems to go about a third-stop darker.
Anyway, these software corrections are important because they allow Fuji to design their lenses and make compromises in weight, size and price while correcting the known fault (such as some barrel distortion with the very expensive GF 23 mm) with software and have those corrections honored by the post processing software (LR).
But I have been told that you cannot turn off the lens corrections that were baked into the raw by Fuji and honored by LR, despite the ability to switch off the enable profile button.
Now with Leica it seems a bit different. I know that Leica writes corrections to the raw file on the Q2 and that amazing 28 mm Summilux F1.7, When the Leica Q2 DNG files are imported, LR honors the Leica baked-in corrections to the 28 mm Summilux and it says "Built in" on the lens profile and you can't turn it off in LR to see the difference. You can turn off the enable lens profile switch, but it does nothing. At the bottom of the panel, it says "Built-in lens profile applied," and you can't change that in LR.
When you click on that information button, LR tells you that the built-in Leica lens profile was applied automatically and corrects chromatic aberration and lens distortion.
With the Fuji raw files, the info item like that does not display at the bottom of the panel, but the various GF lenses (I have them all) are displayed in the lens prfile make and model.
I was always told on the Fuji and Medium Format DPR Boards that LR honors those corrections, and you can't turn them off. But I'm not sure.
I probably have some of that wrong, but those lens profiles are baked in the raw and honored by LR for Fuji and Leica.
 
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Lens profiles that are embedded in the raw file can indeed not be turned off, except (I believe) for some recent cameras. Embedded lens profiles are something that was introduced with mirrorless cameras. The lenses of mirrorless cameras are designed with the profile in mind. That is why Adobe was asked by the camera manufacturers to always apply those profiles without the option to turn it off. In case of the OP, who uses a DSLR, we are not talking about embedded lens profiles, but Adobe-made profiles. These are different from what the DSLR uses to correct its jpegs.
 
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Thanks Johan. That is very interesting and good to know. I am curious why it appears differently with my Fuji GF lenses and the Leika Q2 Summilux. The Leica has a very prominent information alert at the bottom of the panel, as I described. That is not there on the Fuji GFX lenses. It does list the make and model and the switch is active. When I turn it off, the image gets a little darker, but I don't see any distortion change as I'm sure it is baked in and LR won't let us change that part. But I am wondering what turning off the "Enable Profile Corrections" actually does with the Fuji lenses. Like I said, when I switch it off the image gets a little bit darker.
 
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Thanks Johan. That is very interesting and good to know. I am curious why it appears differently with my Fuji GF lenses and the Leika Q2 Summilux. The Leica has a very prominent information alert at the bottom of the panel, as I described. That is not there on the Fuji GFX lenses. It does list the make and model and the switch is active. When I turn it off, the image gets a little darker, but I don't see any distortion change as I'm sure it is baked in and LR won't let us change that part. But I am wondering what turning off the "Enable Profile Corrections" actually does with the Fuji lenses. Like I said, when I switch it off the image gets a little bit darker.
It's possible that the embedded profile does not correct for distortion, only for vignetting. My Sony A7R cameras have the same kind of embedded profile. In that case Adobe created the profile for distortion correction, which explains why you can enable/disable this despite having an embedded profile as well.
 
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Lens profiles that are embedded in the raw file can indeed not be turned off, except (I believe) for some recent cameras.
In general, only some cameras introduced after LR 9.4 will allow the profiles to be disabled. Camera manufacturers decide which combinations of camera/lens allow the embedded lens profile to be disabled, and they communicate that to LR via instructions embedded in the raw file. LR always obeys those instructions. For a given camera, some manufacturers make different decisions for different lenses:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...-correction-on-om-1-body/m-p/13306685#M296145
 
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Also, note that the Adobe documentation is out-of-date and hasn't been updated in the last two years to reflect these changes. That was submitted as a bug report, but apparently Adobe doesn't track documentation issues in its bug-reporting system.
 
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In general, only some cameras introduced after LR 9.4 will allow the profiles to be disabled. Camera manufacturers decide which combinations of camera/lens allow the embedded lens profile to be disabled, and they communicate that to LR via instructions embedded in the raw file. LR always obeys those instructions. For a given camera, some manufacturers make different decisions for different lenses:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...-correction-on-om-1-body/m-p/13306685#M296145
That has always been my understanding and with the Leica LR makes it very clear. it has an information tag telling you details of what is embedded on the lens profile that can not be changed in LR. But see above what I said happens with Fuji GFX..... Kind of confusing there, but still obvious lens profiles are in there at import. But when I switch off the toggle, the image gets a little darker. Just curious. Doesn't matter really because I leave it switched on anyway...
 
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I download a sample raw from the Fujifilm GFX100S with the GF80mmF 1.7 R WR lens. That raw has an embedded lens profile and the manufacturer has decided to allow you to disable it. You can distinguish such camera/lens pairs from those that you can't disable by looking at the Lens Corrections panel. Profiles you can disable will show Profile: Camera Settings:

1669319346626.png


while those you can't disable show "Built-in Lens Profile applied":

1669319700493.png


I agree this is confusing. It's mostly documented on pages 340-41 of The Missing FAQ.
 
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John, yes, thank you so much. About an hour ago I started playing with a GFX shot with the 30mm, 45mm and 23mm. It becaome obvious that Fuji and LR were allowing me to turn off all embedded lens corrections. Flipping back and forth I could see vignetting being corrected on the 30mm and some slight barrel distortion of the 23. There is really no reason anyone would want to turn that off, but it is fun to see the affect. In my opinion, GF lenses aree the very best there is, but they do need corrections applied. Very interesting and thanks!

One point - with Fuji GF lenses, I do not see that Info label at the bottom like I do with Leica. There is no "Built-in Lens Profile applied" statement on the Fuji lenses, but there is on the Leica Q2. So, the difference is, Leica has it and you can't turn it off. Fuji GF lenses have it and you can turn it off (but should not).

In fact, what I have learned here is that with my Fuji gear, I need to make sure that box is checked to Enable Profile Corrections." Otherwise, even with that great glass, I'm going to get some vignetting and slight distortions.
 
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