Kodak Gallery Crop

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tomp

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Hello,
I am totally new to lightroom and digital photography I recently uploaded photos to Kodak Gallery and of course they came back cropped to their 4x6 sizing which basically cut the images that I am viewing in lightroom.

Based on my needs I would like to be able to upload or export photos to Kodak Gallery(or another recommended site) and not have them come back looking different. Is there an easy way to apply say a 4x6 setting in lightroom, upload it to a site like Kodak, and have the same image produced?

Thanks
 
Tomp, welcome to the forums.

I'm trying to understand what happened, exactly. You sent some images to Kodak, to have printed? You asked for 4x6 prints? When the prints came, parts of the images you had sent had been cropped away? Am I close to the situation, or have I missed it completely?

What sort of camera are you using? Do you happen to know its native frame aspect ratio? Most current dSLRs shoot at a 2x3 (4x6) frame aspect ratio. Many compact digicams and a few dSLRs shoot at 3x4.

Yes, Lr can easily crop one, or thousands of images to a specific aspect ratio, of which 4x6 is a common choice. You would do this in the Develop module. To access the Crop mode, simply press R.

If I've missed the boat completely, please explain your situation in a bit more detail. Info on the camera will help as well.
 
Brad,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, you are correct that when the prints came back, Kodak Gallery had cropped away part of the images. I thought this might happen so I am looking for a solution so I can get back the exact images I send for production.

I am using a Canon EOS 4''D (rebel xti). In the specs section of the camera manual, under "Imaging Element" it list the aspect ratio as 3:2 (which is what you referenced in your reply, 2x3). I did not see anything called "native frame aspect ratio", but I think this is the information you are looking for.

It sounds like as I am editing my images in the develop module if I always use the crop setting of 4x6 in Lr I should get back the entire image as I see it after my crop edit (4x6), assuming I upload the same image to Kodak Gallery. Does this sound correct?

Since I am so new to Lr and have limited time for this hobby I am really just trying to get some pictures produced at this point so I can feel as though I have accomplished something and keep taking photos.

Thanks for the help!
 
Mmmmmm what you are saying and Brad sounds correct. Your camera shoots 3:2 and a 6x4" print is 3:2 ratio as well. Did you do any cropping before uploading them? Perhaps provide a link to your gallery for us to have a look if that is possible.
 
tomp, yes, you've got it right, as Geoff says. The key realization is that the photos your camera shoots are a rectangle 2 units by 3 units. This is accomplished with sensor of roughly 3888 x 2592 effective pixels.

This is convenient if you want to print 4x6 prints directly from uncropped photo files, because the rectangles are exactly the same shape. It sounds as if Kodak's gallery is expecting the same thing, at least by default. So, as you say, just choose Original, or 2x3, or 4x6 (in this case, they're all equivalent) as the aspect ratio, and ensure the ratio lock icon is closed.

Additonal info, if you're interested:
Remember that as you crop off edges, that you're throwing away pixels that you paid for a good camera to obtain. As you gain experience, you'll learn to use better judgement in the original shot framing, or to shoot multiple views, allowing different full frame crops. (Or maybe you already do, and it's Lr itself that's confusing you :) )

Note that the 4x6 shape, is less convenient if you want to print 5x7's, 8x1''s, or some of the ISO/metric paper sizes, because those are rectangles of different shape. A few minutes with a blank piece of paper, a ruler and a pencil will demonstrate this quite readily.

So, if you need to crop your photo 'artistically', you need to be careful that the result has the expected aspect ratio (the technical term for the degree of 'rectangle-ness', long and skinny vs. short and wide). Quite often you need to crop something distracting out of an image, or to frame the subject in an appealing manner, and you just can't do it effectively with one of the standard sizes. Frequently this is OK with computer display image, but can end up awkwardly when printed.
 
Brad and Kiwigeof,
Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like I can either leave my photos as original or crop to a predetermined aspect ratio that fits the 2:3 units that my camera uses. In this case Lr provides me four basic options. One being using the original photo with no cropping, choosing the 2x3 or 4x6 as a crop setting when editing from Lr or making a custom size that has the same ratio as a 2:3 frame. Sound correct?

I do think that I sent Kodak Gallery original uncropped photos just so I could get some photos back, but maybe I incorrectly chose a wrong aspect ratio without realizing.??(not sure).

Regarding the comment that it is possible that Lr is confusing me, you are absolutely correct in that statement. I am new to photography, and probably have taken a larger bite than intended by jumping into Lr. This is mostly due to inexperience and lack of time. I will forget what I have learned because too much time passes between sessions (not much you can help with there). I did take an online class on lynda.com taught by Chris Orwig which was helpful, but would like more recommendations on quality web sources and/or tutorials. I noticed that Adobe puts out a written tutorial with a companion disk. Do you have comments on that option?

You mention that using better judgement in the shot framing will come with experience, which I totally agree with and need to get out and take more photos. In that regard I do not have a site for you to review my photos. That will have to be in a future project.

Can you explain what the lock icon actually does? Does it just allow you to lock a certain aspect ratio from the list so all your edited photos have that same setting?

Finally, I would love to hear another view point on how catalogs/folders/files are all different and how I may best use them. Again Lr is confusing me.

Thanks
 
Almost completely correct Tom.

Your camera makes files that are 2x3. That only matters if you're not cropping the images. You can crop them however you like, and Lr offers several default options there, 2x3, 4x5, 5x7, 1x1, and more, and the ability to add custom choices as well. The main point is that the crop you apply needs to match the intended output. Suppose you took a very nice picture of a flag pole. Perhaps, using it on a website, it would make a nice element on the side of the page which is 1 unit wide and 1' units tall. That could look quite nice. But should you send it to a printer, something's going to have to give. There's just no way to make a 1x1' fill up a 4x6 sheet of paper, without distorting the image. Wedding photographers (among others) have to consider this when planning their shots, because zooming in on a group photo so that the group fills the width of the photo, can have dire consequences if it has to be cropped to fit enlargements. (Bye-bye, new in-laws :) )

The lock icon forces the aspect ratio to remain the same as you crop, that is, no matter what portion of the crop box you drag, the rectangle remains the same shape proportionally. If you unlock the icon, dragging a corner keeps the same ratio, but dragging an edge causes the box to get taller/shorter or skinnier/wider. Normally if you choose an aspect ratio it should remain selected as you move from image to image, but there have been several bugs in the past uncovered where this setting wasn't sticky. I think it's working right in 2.6, but.....


Files are the actual images from the camera. Lr needs these to function, and you need to make sure they're backed up.
Folders are the OS's way of organizing the files. Lr doesn't need to organize files in folders, but most people do. This is subject to much debate between Lr users, principally concerning how much time to spend/waste, (depending on your viewpoint) in organizing folders. The general consensus is to organize the image files within OS folders by some form of date structure. Lr provides the tools to do that at import time. Other more complex organization would be handled within Lr.
Catalogs are Lr's fundamental data structure. Within the catalog, which is fundamentally a database file, the filename/folder location of the image files are tracked, any changes you've made to the images are tracked, and any additional management/organizational tools you've used are also tracked. The actual images themselves are not stored in the catalog, just the links to them where they're stored on your PCs drives.
Collections are a virtual way of organinizing your photos within Lr. They allow you to create ad hoc groupings of images, based on a number of parameters, without actually creating additional copies of the images. Many people liken Collections to Playlists for mp3 players/iPods. You may have a shot of a family member, that could fit simultaneously into collections such as 'Family', 'Margie', 'Blonde', 'Red Sweaters', 'Laughing', 'Christmas < Holidays < Events'. That would be almost impossible to manage with Windows Folders, but is trivial using Lr collections.
You can assign keywords, numerical ratings, pick/reject flags and other metadata to each image, and create collections to track all or some of these.

These are good questions that you've asked, and I've waffled on quite a bit, If I haven't answered your questions, I hope I've at least pulled you down the road to new questions.
 
Brad,
That was great information for me and helps will help me gain more efficient use from Lr. Do you recommend any specific tutorial or online source that would be more like a course for Lr?

As I mentioned I did take the online class on lynda.com, but would like other recommendations if you have any?
 
In our Tips and Tricks forum are several threads discussing both online and printed tutorials and resources. Several folks here are well known authors and bloggers, just glance at signature blocks as you peruse the forums. I won't name names, because I'm sure to skip somebody unintentionally. :)

I've personally read Scott Kelby's first Lr book, Peter Krogh's book (which is more about digital photo mangagement in general, rather than Lr specifically). I've glanced at others, but I tend to learn by the sink or swim method, rather than a linear tutorial process. Of all the Lr assets I have, I tend to rely on Victoria Bampton's eBook most of all. But I would call that a reference that's slightly above the newbie level. Once you get your feet good and wet, it puts a lot of useful info in one tidy package.
 
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