keywords, collections, and smart collections

[someothername]

I'd appreciate input on my thoughts regarding how to organize my work:

Keywords -- to follow photo into on line display places and there for potential buyers to find. So more generic terms like animal, dog, woman, artistic nude, dancer, landscape, blue, clouds, etc. Hierarchical organization should be used, as in Animal - domestic - dog.

So, if I use hierarchical keywording, will a searcher find dog, or does the searcher need to use the whole hierarchy to get to dog?

Collections -- these are for my own organizational purposes, such as Earth Day, Earth Day 2''7, XYZ festival display page, Model Shoots, Model Anna G, Model Anna G public gallery, Model Anna G art prints, Animals, etc. It appears there is only a two level hierarchy allowed here, sets and collections. Is there any way to set up collections with more than two levels of nesting?

I would use collections to organize, for example, my model shoots by name and what I'm doing with the images. But I'm not sure I'd want the model's name in the keywords, well maybe. But I certainly don't need to put in the keywords a phrase like "model anna G art print" or "XYZ festival display page".

Smart Collections seem to mainly useful for helping me organize, like forexample the built in one that says I have no keywords on 39969 images, . And for helping revise keywording. I bring up a smart collection on light painting keyword and discover a bunch that should not have that as a keyword.

Does this sound like the right way to approach these tools?
Thanks,
Brandon Smith
Brandonsmithgallery.com

 

[Clicio Barroso]

So, if I use hierarchical keywording, will a searcher find dog, or does the searcher need to use the whole hierarchy to get to dog?

No, usually the last word brings the whole hierarchy along, if you keep and export the hierarchy with the images.

Collections -- these are for my own organizational purposes, such...

Yes, they are. And yes, you can create nested sets to handle your complex collections.

Smart Collections seem to mainly useful for helping me organize,...

Yup! Like, I use some SC to keep track of my File Types without filtering. BTW, SCs are a good way to narrow down searches on large catalogs.

Regards,

 

[Brad Snyder]

And here's a link to exactly how exported hierarchal keywords work in LR, by a recognized authority in the field:

http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/help/cvkc-lightroom.html#hierarchicalkeywords

 

[someothername]

thanks for the input. I read the bit from controlled vocabulary and find it strange that flattening the tree eliminates the bag container or top of the hierarchy.

which leads to my next question, if I may:

how do you create a keyword hierarchy in lightroom? I've been browsing through a search on the adobe forums and just about everything seems to be relating to creating keyword sets with screens that I can't seem to get to in LR2.

If I type Family>Mom, I get a new keyword "Family>Mom" in the keyword list, not the hierarchy I expected from one source I read. I can easily go into the keyword list, right click and add inside another one. Is that the only practical way of creating or adding to an hierarchy?

I guess I'm not too clear on the purpose of the built in keyword sets Outdoor, Portrait, and Wedding Photography. I was thinking that perhaps this was a provided starter group of three hierarchies, with the three top levels and a few suggestions for the next level. But when I click inside I get just the lower level. And I'm not sure how I did it, but I managed to replace one of them with the word Family -- I was trying to create a new set. But then I noticed that these do not show up as top level keywords in my keyword list.

How are keyword sets related to the keyword list? How should I be using them, if at all?

 

[Brad Snyder]

thanks for the input. I read the bit from controlled vocabulary and find it strange that flattening the tree eliminates the bag container or top of the hierarchy.

which leads to my next question, if I may:

how do you create a keyword hierarchy in lightroom? I've been browsing through a search on the adobe forums and just about everything seems to be relating to creating keyword sets with screens that I can't seem to get to in LR2.

First, forget the term keyword sets for a minute, that's something else, see below.

If I type Family>Mom, I get a new keyword "Family>Mom" in the keyword list, not the hierarchy I expected from one source I read. I can easily go into the keyword list, right click and add inside another one. Is that the only practical way of creating or adding to an hierarchy?

[COLOR=#''''ff]Within LR, yes. If you'd like to approach it a different way, use the menu command in Library to Export Keywords. This will export a text file, editable in any plain text editor (avoid word processors). You will be able to see the structure of the hierarchy. I've included a short snippet of such a file either in this thread, or the simultaneous parallel thread on more or less the same topic.

If you like, you can just enter your keywords in that text file, paying careful attention to the format. When you're happy, select Import Keyword in LR, and any new keywords will be sync'd in.[/COLOR]



I guess I'm not too clear on the purpose of the built in keyword sets Outdoor, Portrait, and Wedding Photography. I was thinking that perhaps this was a provided starter group of three hierarchies, with the three top levels and a few suggestions for the next level. But when I click inside I get just the lower level. And I'm not sure how I did it, but I managed to replace one of them with the word Family -- I was trying to create a new set. But then I noticed that these do not show up as top level keywords in my keyword list.

[COLOR=#''''ff]That's because you've been led astray. Keyword sets are not so much about what keywords are included in the Keyword List, but about applying them easily. A Keyword set is simply a list of up to 9 keywords. The concept is that frequently used groupings can be combined, and made available for quick application, sort of like a preset. Set your display so that the current keyword set is visible, then press the alt key. See those numbers appear? Alt-NumPad 1, will apply the lower-left keyword in the set. The set maps the NumPad keys. That's why the magic number 9. (Don't know why they left zero out). That's what a keyword set is for. My problem? My whole family fits in one keyword set, but my wife's family takes 5 or 6 sets. Just doesn't work for me, 9 is never enough.
[/COLOR]
How are keyword sets related to the keyword list? How should I be using them, if at all?

I banged this out in a hurry, if I've confused you, just ask again.

 

[someothername]

Thanks, that explains the keyword set pretty well and I'm thinking I'd like to simply disable or hide them. I can see where someone was going through a family album and wanting to easily keyword the name of the family members showing and how that little box of preset keywords for my family would work handily, if there were only nine names to deal with.

So collection sets provide a way to organize collections hierarchically, while keyword sets are a time saver when a lot of photos need to be sorted into just a few (nine) categories, but otherwise are not a way to organize keywords. Instead, the keyword list context menus are where you set up your keyword hierarchy if you love pointing, clicking and dragging. Alternatively, you can export and edit in a text editor.

I really like being able to deal with the keywords in an editor like that. I've used a great many different programs that had keyword features, and even written a few. I never have liked having to point, click and type to define a simple tree.

Thanks again for helping me sort out this stuff.

 

[Brad Snyder]

Yep, that's just about it.