Keywords added out of nowhere ...

[gYab61zH]

Lightroom Version

LRC 12.2.1

Operating System

1. macOS 12 Monterey

When I started my LRC this morning I suddenly noticed a large number of non-hierarchical keywords had been added to my catalogue. I use hierarchical keywords so the new ones stand out like a sore thumb. Also, none of the added keywords have any images attached and they look as if they come from sort of standard list. Here are a few examples: Brown hair, Girl, Women, Tourist, Recreational Pursuit, Positive Emotion, Happiness, etc (I am just picking them at random). Does anyone have any idea where they come from and how they end up in my list of keywords?

 

[Victoria Bampton]

Downloaded any files from the web recently? That sounds like the keywords that would have been stored in a stock photo.

 

[gYab61zH]

No, but I did get some pictures from a friend made on his I-phone.

 

[Califdan]

That's probably where the keywords came from. If you subsequently removed or deleted the photos from LrC, then that also explains why there are zero images associated with those KW's. Happens all the time.

I created a metadata preset that I use when importing images from the web or from others. This preset removes all keywords and ratings from imported images before adding them to the catalog and I select that preset in the ":Apply during import" panel of the import dialog. Usually I have a preset there that adds my copyright and contact informaiton which would be inappropriate for someone else's image anyway.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

There is a ‘Purge Unused Keywords’ menu that will deal with this quickly.

 

[vbnut]

That's probably where the keywords came from. If you subsequently removed or deleted the photos from LrC, then that also explains why there are zero images associated with those KW's. Happens all the time.

I created a metadata preset that I use when importing images from the web or from others. This preset removes all keywords and ratings from imported images before adding them to the catalog and I select that preset in the ":Apply during import" panel of the import dialog. Usually I have a preset there that adds my copyright and contact informaiton which would be inappropriate for someone else's image anyway.

That's a cool idea. I haven't used metadata presets before, so its not obvious to me how to create one that removes all keywords and ratings. Can you give some hints about how to do it?

 

[gYab61zH]

I too would be quite interested in that.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Create a Metadata preset, then make sure you select the Keywords box at the bottom, but leave the input box empty. Note the text in that box:



You can use that "enable a metadata item but leave it blank to clear" feature to clear other metadata items as well. Many Olympus shooters will be annoyed by the persistent embedding of "OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA" into the Caption field, so I had an import preset when I used an Olympus camera which cleared that entry (as well as applying my own metadata entries).

 

[gYab61zH]

Thanks Jim. That is a great way to prevent stray keywords to contaminate the database.

 

[bobsomrak]

@Jim Wilde

Unfortunately using a Metadata Preset with a checked blank Keyword box does not prevent the keywords contained in the imported photo from being added to the Keyword List. It does deleted the keywords from the imported photo but LrC must add the photos keywords to the keyword list BEFORE the preset is applied to the photo.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

@Jim Wilde

Unfortunately using a Metadata Preset with a checked blank Keyword box does not prevent the keywords contained in the imported photo from being added to the Keyword List. It does deleted the keywords from the imported photo but LrC must add the photos keywords to the keyword list BEFORE the preset is applied to the photo.

If the preset strips all these keywords from the images, then that is not a big problem. It means that these keywords are added to the keyword list after all, but that these will be ‘orphaned’ keywords; i.e. these keywords will not be assigned to any image. That is what the ’Metadata - Purge Unused Keywords’ menu can quickly deal with.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Yup, I was just about to say that but Johan (once again) beat me to it.

 

[bobsomrak]

@Johan Elzenga @Jim Wilde

But is can be a big problem.. Purge Unused Keywords works fine EXCEPT if you have a preprepared list of keywords, Genus/Species/etc for instance, and have unused keywords of your own but want to keep them ready to use. Then you are getting rid of your own keywords. This has been brought up in the U2U forums many times and it has been suggested to not add the keywords until after the import preset to eliminate the issue. One way to do it now is to go to Bridge and eliminate the keywords before importing into LrC.

 

[bobsomrak]

I meant "it has been suggested for Adobe to change the behavior to not add keywords until after the import preset ......"

 

[vbnut]

I meant "it has been suggested for Adobe to change the behavior to not add keywords until after the import preset ......"

Do you know if a bug or issue was filed about this?

 

[bobsomrak]

Check this thread on the Adobe forum.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh.../import-into-lr-without-keywords/m-p/11426671

 

[flexigav]

@Johan Elzenga @Jim Wilde

But is can be a big problem.. Purge Unused Keywords works fine EXCEPT if you have a preprepared list of keywords, Genus/Species/etc for instance, and have unused keywords of your own but want to keep them ready to use. Then you are getting rid of your own keywords. This has been brought up in the U2U forums many times and it has been suggested to not add the keywords until after the import preset to eliminate the issue. One way to do it now is to go to Bridge and eliminate the keywords before importing into LrC.

If you had a flat keyword list, would keywords from imported photos that would cause duplicates on the LrC KW list still be added to it? Any keywords added to a flat list would not be duplicated but could remain in the list, so no purging is necessary. Could you compensate for a lack of hierarchical associations using keyword suggestion sets in LrC? ... food for thought.

 

[johnrellis]

Here's the feature request from 2011:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...y-to-not-import-image-keywords/idi-p/12250279

Only 16 votes (including me). But be sure to click the upvote button in the upper-left corner -- one can always hope!

 

[bobsomrak]

Instead of waiting for Adobe to fix this which they apparently have no intention of doing it is easier to use this method proposed by @johnbeardy in @johnrellis above linked thread. The first time you create the empty keyword metadata template and from then on you just use the saved template when using the Replace Metadata command on all the selected photos you want the keywords removed. Quick and easy. I use this method often.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

If you had a flat keyword list, would keywords from imported photos that would cause duplicates on the LrC KW list still be added to it? Any keywords added to a flat list would not be duplicated but could remain in the list, so no purging is necessary. Could you compensate for a lack of hierarchical associations using keyword suggestion sets in LrC? ... food for thought.

A flat keyword list has no problems like this. Double keywords can only occur because of a hierarchy.

 

[AlanF]

I use a hierarchical keyword list managed entirely within LrC without putting any of the keywords into my individual picture files. I put my hierarchy under a single probably unique heading entry so that any stray imports are very unlikely to be under that heading. This makes it easy to find and zap the unwanted imported keywords. On the other hand, if I actually want to keep them then I will move them into my own keyword hierarchy.

 

[flexigav]

The beauty of hierarchical structures are that it is quicker to assign a number of related keywords to a batch of photos with just one click. It may also help speed up the process of locating keywords in a list, however in LrC and Adobe Bridge, all keywords can be located quickly with a search. The problem with the hierarchical structure is LrC can not check for duplicates in different association branches. This is obvious when importing a photo into LrC that has keywords. LrC imports these keywords into its list during the photo import, except if it detects doing so would create a duplicate keyword. However it can't check for duplicates in other hierarchy branches. It is confined to the hierarchy structure presented by the photo metadata.

Unless Adobe can upgrade the search for duplicate keywords during an import, to search all branches of hierarchical structures in the keyword list, it might pay to drop hierarchical structures and just keep a flat keyword list structure.

This problem is most apparent when exporting jpeg copies of a dng or TIFF master file with keywords, then importing the copy back into LrC to manage it, or through exporting the copy to the same folder as the master with the "Add to this Catalog" option selected. When exported with keywords, those keywords are then added to the LrC keyword list upon reimporting. Without any hierarchy structure, they will all be seen as duplicates and not added to the keyword list.

 

[Philippe Coudé du Foresto]

However it can't check for duplicates in other hierarchy branches. It is confined to the hierarchy structure presented by the photo metadata

The same word in different hierarchy doesn't necessarly mean a duplicate. It can be a false duplicate (same spelling, but totally different meaning).
LrC has no way to determine if the same word in two or more different hierarchy is a real duplicate (same meaning) or a false duplicate (same spelling but different meaning).
In this regards, both flat list and hierarchy list have pros and cons.

 

[flexigav]

The same word in different hierarchy doesn't necessarly mean a duplicate. It can be a false duplicate (same spelling, but totally different meaning).
LrC has no way to determine if the same word in two or more different hierarchy is a real duplicate (same meaning) or a false duplicate (same spelling but different meaning).
In this regards, both flat list and hierarchy list have pros and cons.

It's really only about tagging photos with as many appropriate keywords as you can think of—as fast as posible, when you know others will be searching a library looking for such photos. The benefit of having a hierarchical list is to allow tagging of many associated keywords in one or two actions. The drawback is the time you will spend in constant maintenance of a hierarchical list. LrC does provide a "keyword set"s feature that could help assigning associated keywords quickly from a flat list in place of these high maintenance hierarchical structures. Even if a word has multiple meanings, you really only need it in a keyword list once. Searchers might consider boolean search criteria to confine the results to one specific meaning of such words.

 

[flexigav]

When I started my LRC this morning I suddenly noticed a large number of non-hierarchical keywords had been added to my catalogue. I use hierarchical keywords so the new ones stand out like a sore thumb. Also, none of the added keywords have any images attached and they look as if they come from sort of standard list. Here are a few examples: Brown hair, Girl, Women, Tourist, Recreational Pursuit, Positive Emotion, Happiness, etc (I am just picking them at random). Does anyone have any idea where they come from and how they end up in my list of keywords?

If you export a copy of your original photo with keywords—because the "Automatically write changes into XMP" option is selected in the catalog metadata settings, with "Add to this Catalog" selected in the export dialog box, then you are essentially reimporting what you just exported. Every time you import a photo the keywords are added to your keyword list. In this case, the same keywords that were added to the exported copy are then added to your keyword list upon import. If you have a flat keyword list these will all be seen as duplicates and not added. However if a hierarchical list structure is used, and the imported structure of the photo metadata is different to your LrC list, LrC will not see the duplicates and add the keywords to your list out of your hierarchical order. You then have some work to do to fix your keyword list.

In this case, if you insist on maintaining a hierarchical keyword list, then export copies of the original without writing changes into XMP. After re importing, copy and paste the metadata from the original to the imported copy, from the metadata menu tab. All the keyword tags in a photos metadata when imported into a LrC catalog must be represented in the LrC keyword list.