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Sync Keyword sync changes in LrC 13.3?

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ml_lrcl

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USA
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
Classic
Lightroom Version Number
13.3
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  1. macOS 14 Sonoma
After the latest updates, it appears that keyword additions made in LrC will now sync up to Cloud apps each time keywords are added and metadata is saved to an image file. Prior to LrC v13.3, my experience was that a keyword sync from LrC to Cloud only happened once—on an initial sync of a new image added to LrC. Am I correct that this is an addition/change, or misremembering the old behavior?

I'm seeing this with any file type; it'll happen even if the file originally came down into LrC from LrM. Keywords must still be applied in LrC, of course—but again, they will continue getting applied upwards into Cloud, rather than just one initial time. LrC triggers a sync involving keywords whenever LrC explicitly saves some metadata to the catalog image file. A small change to title/caption/develop settings alone won't do it.

It's still all one way, and still ignores whatever you've done in Cloud—but seems to introduce some new wrinkles.

If you remove a keyword from an image via LrM, it'll be re-applied in LrM/Cloud if it's still applied in LrC. Conversely, removing the keyword from an image in LrC won't remove it in Cloud. That has to be done manually in LrD/LrM/LrW. I think this latter piece has always been true. However, I believe it's new that it has to be removed from LrC first!

Is this a new thing to navigate, or was I just missing this all along? Has anyone noticed any other changes (if this is one)?

[ADMIN NOTE - this unexpected behavior is now under priority investigation by Adobe. The recommendation for now is to stop writing to XMP, as the repercussions are not fully known.]
 
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As far as I know, nothing changed in this respect. A one time upload of keywords will happen if you saved metadata to file and did not yet create a smart preview for this image. That is how it always was and how I think it still is.
 
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At the top of this link is the Adobe position on syncing between Classic and the Adobe Cloud. It describes how syncing applies to keywords. Nothing has changed No matter how much we might hope otherwise.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/sync-faq.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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Huh. I'm definitely seeing LrC keyword additions/changes show up in Cloud on an ongoing basis now. May not be documented, but it's behaving differently. It is continuing to apply LrC keywords to images in Cloud beyond that initial one time upload that we were used to. Not sure if that's intentional on Adobe's part or not.

(It's kind of creating a mess in Cloud, actually. Changing a keyword's text in LrC adds that new keyword to the image in Cloud while leaving the old one, since it's just the one-way upload/application.)
 
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I too am observing the strange sync behavior between Lightroom Classic and Lightroom Desktop:

- Add a keyword in LRC, it gets added in LRD.
- Remove a keyword in LRC, it doesn't get removed in LRD.
- Add a keyword in LRD, it doesn't get added in LRC.
- Remove a keyword in LRD, it doesn't get deleted in LRC, but it does reappear in LRD after a second sync!

Lightroom Cloud is the Hotel California for keywords -- they can check out any time they like, but they can never leave.
 
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Yes, I can see it now.....if I add keywords then save metadata to XMP in LrC after initial sync the added keywords are transferred to the cloud. It doesn't happen if I just add keywords and sync, it seems to require the metadata save to XMP for the keywords to transfer.
 
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Building on that, to make keywords in LRD match those in LRC:

1. Enable Catalog Settings > Metadata > Automatically Write Changes Into XMP (Jim Wilde suggests saving metadata is required).
2. Delete all the keywords in LRD.
3. Select all the keywords in LRC, cut them (Ctrl/Cmd X), type Enter/Return, paste them (Ctrl/Cmd V), type Enter/Return.
4. Wait for the next sync.

I can't get the other direction to work -- I think adding keywords in LRD and expecting them to show up in LRC is flakey in a way I don't understand yet.
 
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Agreed on all of the above. The irritation (for me) is that if you then delete keywords in LrC, they don't delete in Lr...

(and no, Keywords entered in Lr don't sync down)

johnrellis said:
Lightroom Cloud is the Hotel California for keywords -- they can check out any time they like, but they can never leave.
Click to expand...
Love it!!!
 
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johnrellis said:
1. Enable Catalog Settings > Metadata > Automatically Write Changes Into XMP (Jim Wilde suggests saving metadata is required).
2. Delete all the keywords in LRD.
3. Select all the keywords in LRC, cut them (Ctrl/Cmd X), type Enter/Return, paste them (Ctrl/Cmd V), type Enter/Return.
4. Wait for the next sync.
Click to expand...

I've found that you don't even need to be using the "write changes to XMP" option—or be using XMP sidecars to start with (or DNGs/RAW at all). In my experience, just changing something for any image file in LrC, plus the "save metadata to file" will trigger the LrC > LrD/LrM keyword sync/re-application/update, as Jim says. That level of sync may also happen automatically at some point, as you say in #4, without even the manual save, but I personally haven't waited for it to happen.

The process of having to delete all LrD/LrM keywords (#2) and then write to file/sync in LrC is an annoying one. I think you're right that it's the only safe way of making sure that you get the current LrC set (and only that) in LrD, though. I don't think you need to specifically delete/re-enter the current keywords in LrC, however... that works, but as long as they're already entered as you want them, you can also tweak something like title or a develop setting or something else. Just anything that then lets you then save metadata to file again.

Agreed all around that it's definitely really annoying that deletion doesn't sync in either direction!

My hope is/was that this signals that they're looking at better integration between the two in the overall development pipeline. But, the way this behaves it definitely seems like it could just be an unintentional tweak in the engine... Something new to adjust to, for now...
 
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Johan Elzenga said:
Looks like the new sync engine has some quirks that Adobe did not realise. I am sure this was not intentional.
Click to expand...
Correct. Victoria has put a note on the original post.
 
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My most recent sync is showing close to 1200 syncs. I only uploaded 122 pictures
 
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Hi - I'm wondering if there's any more intel on this ongoing keyword sync from LrC > Cloud. I'm still seeing the same behavior after the v13.3.1 update. (I know it was not listed in the v13.3.1 bug fix notes.)

I am, understanding that it is at my own risk, still saving changed metadata to file somewhat regularly. (I'm doing this so that develop settings and other metadata changes get backed up in the full original files' headers via regular Time Machine snapshots.) I am not saving to separate xmp files—everything is saved directly to the headers in the DNGs/jpgs/HEICs themselves.

If it's helpful to pass along to someone, @RikkFlohr, some additional behavior that is possibly related, possibly not related:

LrC and LrW have been in sync without issue since v13.3 (including the ongoing keyword overwrite behavior). Neither product throws a sync error. I have seen LrD/LrM have a few issues syncing/matching what appeared in LrW/LrC, though. I raise this because of the mention of an xmp mismatch at one point.

My community thread originally detailing the subject is here. I also spoke to Adobe support and they escalated after grabbing logs and screenshots, but I never heard back. Issues started with a few photos not properly syncing their album membership into LrD/LrM from changes reflected in LrC/LrW. When I kept working with those images in LrM, in some cases those images moved on to a full xmp develop mismatch error on LrM, per the thread.

After not hearing back from support, I have ended up just deleting the problem images (smart previews) from the cloud entirely and then re-syncing them up from LrC. It was only a few photos, so the quickest option to fix things and move forward. I haven't had further issues, though I haven't done much direct editing in LrM or LrD since.

Anyway, just checking in to see if there's any more info!
 
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The bug fix didn't make it into 13.3.1, but it is confirmed as a bug and a fix underway.
 
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