Keyword Problem

[Reddwarf4ever]

Lightroom Version Number

11.4.1

Operating System

1. Windows 10

Hello, I inadvertantly added a Keyword "_Family" In lightroom its not showing as a keyword, so i cant remove it, but its showing in TAGS in windows explorer, so i deleted all TAGS in explorer and saved Metadata from LR into files, but its the same as before with m,any having "_Family" in the TAGS

need to sort this please any ideas ?

UPDATE, looks like this has happened to a LOT of files, when i created the keyword Heading keyword i should have unticked everything as its added it to all files

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

Found if I select "|Keywords and containing keywords" it now shows _Family, tried right clicking on _Family and choosing remove from selected photos but does nothing

still struggling with this

 

[Califdan]

It would seem that you do still have the "_Family" keyword in LrC.

In the Keyword List panel, type "Family" in the box contianing "Fitler Keywords". This will hide keywords that don't containing "Family" from being shown in the KW List. You should then see youre "_FamilY" keyword in the list along with and parent keywords it may be under.

At this point you can delete that keyword from the KW List (highlight it and click the minus sign on the Keyword List Panel header. However, you may instead want to rename it "Family" (right click on it and pick "Edit Keyword" - then change the name in the keyword edit windows), or you may want to click the right arrow the the right end of the line containing that KW to see the images, and then assign a different KW to those images.

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

Hello i was mistaken, i had the folder selected and not collection

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

It would seem that you do still have the "_Family" keyword in LrC.

In the Keyword List panel, type "Family" in the box contianing "Fitler Keywords". This will hide keywords that don't containing "Family" from being shown in the KW List. You should then see youre "_FamilY" keyword in the list along with and parent keywords it may be under.

At this point you can delete that keyword from the KW List (highlight it and click the minus sign on the Keyword List Panel header. However, you may instead want to rename it "Family" (right click on it and pick "Edit Keyword" - then change the name in the keyword edit windows), or you may want to click the right arrow the the right end of the line containing that KW to see the images, and then assign a different KW to those images.

I have Changed the name to Family, filtered again as Family its showing a count of Zero, should i still delete it ? thanks

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

So the photos now have Family in instead of _Family, I right click on Family and chose remove keyword from selected ( Four as a test ) photos but nothing changes in LR

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

Just used ExifPilot, None of the IPTC Keywords show FAMILY, but LR and windows explorer shows Family, if its stored somewhere else, dont know why its showing where it is. in LR Family is the top Hierachy of the name keywords, do I need to somehow make this a normal person keyword ( dont know how) so it will remove the Family keywords from the selected files
Family doesnt have a number next to it.... Thanks

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

Still not resolved this, any help would be appreciated.
to Summarize, I have a Parent Keyword "Family" with manychild keywords, in the keyword tag panel it shows Family as a TAG
in the metadata filter it shows Family as a parent keyword,
the TAG Family also shows in filter folders
it also shows in windows explorer TAGS
BUT if I try to delete Family ( showing as a parent keyword) it will also delete all the child keywords

Even stranger, I removed the Family tags from a small folder using a 3rd party App, ( wont work on others as they have embedded folders) but some are showing Family as a TAG, no idea why, on two images, BUT in windows explorer its NOT showing the Family tag,on these photos but DOES in lightroom.....This is driving me crazy, there must be a solution thanks

I made a smart collection to show Family Keyword, says 2758 out of 3628 photos

 

[Califdan]

You are not understanding how this works. Maybe this will help

1) in the LrC catalog there is a hierarhcical list of all your KW's (Keywords - aka Tags). This list can be seen in the "Keyword List" pnael in the library module.

2) The "Keywording" panel also manages this list. If you are having problems (which you are), close the Keywording panel and ignore it as it does not give you a complete depiction of what was going on. Just use the Keyword List panel

3) In LrC you associate iamges with one or more keywords. This is a bi-directional association where one image can have many keywords and any keyword can be associationed with many images.

4) If you explicityly associate a KW with an image it implicitly also associates any parent keywords the assigned KW may have. So for example, if you assign keyword "Boise" to an image it will implicitly also consider "Idaho" as also being associated with that image.

5) Nonthing metnioned so far has anything to do with what you see in Windows File Manager, and none of this information is synchronized with the "tag" information in the actual image files on disk unless LrC is instructed to do so. This can be done in two ways. First is that you can set a preference to automatically write XMP data to disk files (Menu: Edit -> Catalog Settings -> Metadata tab). Second you can select one or more images and use menu "Metadata -> Save Metadata to File". In either case this will update the file on disk with what is in the LrC catalog.

Please use actual panel names in future replies so we know what you are referring to. Your screen shot shows the Kework List panel so I assume that is what you mean by "keyword tag panel". The screen shot shows that for the selected photo, it has Agnes explicitly assinged to the photo and Family is implicitly assigned.

BUT if I try to delete Family ( showing as a parent keyword) it will also delete all the child keywords

This is correct. If you delete a parent Keyword (e.g. "FamilY") in LrC it will automatically delete any children keywords as shown in the Keword List Panel. This is as designed and is the logical way for it to work.

Even stranger, I removed the Family tags from a small folder using a 3rd party App....but some are showing Family as a TAG

If you use anything outside of LrC to alter metadata in actual image files, LrC has no idea that you did so as you are doing it behind LrC's back. After you removed "Family" from the image file with the 3rd party app, I'm not clear where you are still seeing "Family" as a tag. If it is in the image file (using windows file manager) then the 3rd party app didn't work. However if you are seeing it in LrC, that is expected as LrC has no idea what you did outside of LrC and is showing you what is stored in the catalog

At this point, I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish? Do you want to delete keyword "Family" and all it's children? Do you want to delete keyword "Family" and retain all of it's children (and if so do you want them under a different parent or at the top level)? Etc. Please be explicit in explaining what the end goal is.

thanks.

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

You are not understanding how this works. Maybe this will help

1) in the LrC catalog there is a hierarhcical list of all your KW's (Keywords - aka Tags). This list can be seen in the "Keyword List" pnael in the library module.
Yep got that

2) The "Keywording" panel also manages this list. If you are having problems (which you are), close the Keywording panel and ignore it as it does not give you a complete depiction of what was going on. Just use the Keyword List panel
the key wording panel, shows the keywords associated with a particular image, don’t see why I should ignore it

3) In LrC you associate iamges with one or more keywords. This is a bi-directional association where one image can have many keywords and any keyword can be associationed with many images.
yep agreed

4) If you explicityly associate a KW with an image it implicitly also associates any parent keywords the assigned KW may have. So for example, if you assign keyword "Boise" to an image it will implicitly also consider "Idaho" as also being associated with that image.
doesn’t this happen depending on which radio buttons are ticked in the parent keyword ?

5) Nonthing metnioned so far has anything to do with what you see in Windows File Manager, and none of this information is synchronized with the "tag" information in the actual image files on disk unless LrC is instructed to do so. This can be done in two ways. First is that you can set a preference to automatically write XMP data to disk files (Menu: Edit -> Catalog Settings -> Metadata tab). Second you can select one or more images and use menu "Metadata -> Save Metadata to File". In either case this will update the file on disk with what is in the LrC catalog.
I saved the metadata of the known face tags to file, believing it to be correct, the auto write to XMP MD was turned on, now turned off the “Family” Parent keyword as shown in the keyword list and keyword list panel. IMO the problem arose when I created the parent keyword “Family” and left all the radio buttons ticked, so it was added as a keyword to all the images, then I saved MD to file, so now shows in windows explorer TAGS. Normally keywords can be removed quite easily from files in Lightroom, but as it’s a Parent key word, I can’t see how to do that, please advise if there is a way. If I manage to remove the “Family” keyword from all files, I will then read the MD back to LIghtroom, and all should be fine, I have turned off all the radio buttons in “Family” keyword, so shouldn’t happen again.

i have tried very hard to use appropriate terminology, hope I have succeeded. So IMO none of this would have happened if the created parent keyword “Family” had had all the radio buttons turned off. I can’t explain myself any clearer, just hope theirs a solution in Lightroom or with a. 3rd party app, ExifTool looks the most promising at the moment.
thank you

Please use actual panel names in future replies so we know what you are referring to. Your screen shot shows the Kework List panel so I assume that is what you mean by "keyword tag panel". The screen shot shows that for the selected photo, it has Agnes explicitly assinged to the photo and Family is implicitly assigned.


This is correct. If you delete a parent Keyword (e.g. "FamilY") in LrC it will automatically delete any children keywords as shown in the Keword List Panel. This is as designed and is the logical way for it to work.

If you use anything outside of LrC to alter metadata in actual image files, LrC has no idea that you did so as you are doing it behind LrC's back. After you removed "Family" from the image file with the 3rd party app, I'm not clear where you are still seeing "Family" as a tag. If it is in the image file (using windows file manager) then the 3rd party app didn't work. However if you are seeing it in LrC, that is expected as LrC has no idea what you did outside of LrC and is showing you what is stored in the catalog

At this point, I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish? Do you want to delete keyword "Family" and all it's children? Do you want to delete keyword "Family" and retain all of it's children (and if so do you want them under a different parent or at the top level)? Etc. Please be explicit in explaining what the end goal is.

my end goal, is to totally remove the keyword “Family” from all images, preferably in Lightroom.

thanks.

 

[Califdan]

my end goal, is to totally remove the keyword “Family” from all images, preferably in Lightroom.

I'm assuming that you want to keep the keyword "Family" in LR as a container (parent) for the individual people but not have it exported or added to the actual image files on disk and also do not want it to be included on images you share with others or post online. This is very common and i do it regularly.

1. use your 3rd party tool to clear all the keywords from the disk files if desired. This is not required to achieve your goal.
2. In LrC, right click on the "Family" keyword and select "Edit Keyword Tag" from the context menu
3. Un check "Include on Export". This will prevent KW "Family" from being exported when you export images.
4. if you used any synonyms also uncheck "Export Synonyms" to prevent the synonym from being exported
5. If there are higher level keywords above "Family" (e.g. "People") and you don't want any of those keyords exported, then also uncheck "Export Containing Keywords".
6. If you save metadata back to the image files it will again add "Family" to the disk files, negating what you did in step 1, as that is what is in the LrC catalog.
7. If you want to post, share, send or otherwise publish or share images export the images to a temp folder on your hard drive someplace and share them from there. These copies will not contain the "Family" KW if you did step 4. When you do this, I do not reccomend using the "Add to this Catalog" checkbox in the export dialog.

Let me know if this makes sense and how you make out.

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

I'm assuming that you want to keep the keyword "Family" in LR as a container (parent) for the individual people but not have it exported or added to the actual image files on disk and also do not want it to be included on images you share with others or post online. This is very common and i do it regularly.

1. use your 3rd party tool to clear all the keywords from the disk files if desired. This is not required to achieve your goal.

trying this tomorrow with exiftool

1. In LrC, right click on the "Family" keyword and select "Edit Keyword Tag" from the context menu
2. Un check "Include on Export". This will prevent KW "Family" from being exported when you export images.
3. if you used any synonyms also uncheck "Export Synonyms" to prevent the synonym from being exported

already did all these steps, did them as soon as I realised why the images had the keyword Family added

1. If there are higher level keywords above "Family" (e.g. "People") and you don't want any of those keyords exported, then also uncheck "Export Containing Keywords".

there are no higher levels

1. If you save metadata back to the image files it will again add "Family" to the disk files, negating what you did in step 1, as that is what is in the LrC catalog.
2. If you want to post, share, send or otherwise publish or share images export the images to a temp folder on your hard drive someplace and share them from there.

the files already have the keyword Family, 2758 of them, so,if there’s no way of fixing this in Lightroom I’ll have to hope Exif tool can do this, it looks promising looking at forum posts, will try tomorrow
thank you

1. These copies will not contain the "Family" KW if you did step 4. When you do this, I do not reccomend using the "Add to this Catalog" checkbox in the export dialog.

Let me know if this makes sense and how you make out.

as a side question, once a parent keyword has been created, can it not be deleted ? Maybe if it was linked with a ‘dummy’ keyword, then deleted, once its not associated with the previous keywords, just a thought

 

[Califdan]

as a side question, once a parent keyword has been created, can it not be deleted ? Maybe if it was linked with a ‘dummy’ keyword, then deleted, once its not associated with the previous keywords, just a thought

If you delete a parent keyword, it also deletes all the children KW's under it. If you want to retain those children keywords, first drag them out from under the parent to some other keyword. This should leave the original parent with no children. If the count of images next to that original parent is not zero then some images had the original parent explicitly assigned either in addition or or instead of being assinged to one of the now moved children and deleting the original parent will remove that parent KW from those images. At this point you can delete the original parent and it will not affect the moved children keywords.

HOWEVER, THIS WILL NOT AUTOMATICALLY REMOVE THAT KEYWORD FROM THE IMAGE FILES THEMSELVES. I don't recall if then saving metadata to disk files will remove that original parent tag from those files or not. Give it a try on one image and see what it does.

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

If you delete a parent keyword, it also deletes all the children KW's under it. If you want to retain those children keywords, first drag them out from under the parent to some other keyword. This should leave the original parent with no children. If the count of images next to that original parent is not zero then some images had the original parent explicitly assigned either in addition or or instead of being assinged to one of the now moved children and deleting the original parent will remove that parent KW from those images. At this point you can delete the original parent and it will not affect the moved children keywords.

HOWEVER, THIS WILL NOT AUTOMATICALLY REMOVE THAT KEYWORD FROM THE IMAGE FILES THEMSELVES. I don't recall if then saving metadata to disk files will remove that original parent tag from those files or not. Give it a try on one image and see what it does.

OK, firstly you are now my Hero. I created a new Family Keyword, Family2, and dragged all the child keywords into it, then deleted the original keyword Family. Nothing obvious changed. But then I published the folder, using the keep folder hierarchy plugin, and the file tag Keyword, has only the ones I want, Family is NOT THERE. I’m just publishing a larger folder, can’t see it’ll be any different. Now I can finally get on with some Face Tagging again. I actually found that ExifTool would have done what I wanted externally to Lightroom, bit this is so much better. Thank you so much for persevering with me, maybe this will help someone in the future, I can’t believe this could only happen to me, it’s too easy to leave the radio buttons turned on when creating a Keyword, maybe it should default to all unticked maybe.

So once all the file Metadata has been ‘cleaned’ should I simply read the metadata back to Lightroom ? seems the most obvious option

 

[Reddwarf4ever]

Need to know should I copy the published files to the original folders, this replacing the files, then read file metadata back into Lightroom ? thanks