Is Lightroom Classic end-of-life?

[Victoria Bampton]

Lots of people are expressing concerns about Lightroom being "on the way out". I've been mulling it over, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this logic (and to be clear, I don't have inside information in this)

Is Lightroom dying?

Since Wednesday's announcements, one of the main questions on everyone's minds is whether Lightroom (as we know it) is dying.

Adobe says it's not, but they also said they had no plans to remove perpetual licenses too, so can we believe them? I don't know what Adobe is planning, and none of us can foresee the future, but we can consider a little logic...

Firstly, what's causing the concerns?


Adobe released Lightroom CC

Yes, Lightroom now has a little baby brother. But Photoshop's had a baby brother for years without getting killed off, so that doesn't mean much.


They gave away Lightroom's name

That's more telling. They clearly see the new app as the future of Lightroom. But like any newborn baby, its current state gives few clues about how it will turn out when it grows up.


They called 'the old one' Classic

Some say that sounds like it's old and in its way out. Others think it's the dictionary definition of "of recognized and established value" or "traditional". The obvious solution would be to call it Pro, but that would suggest the new baby Lightroom wouldn't be suitable for Pros when it grows up. The fact they avoided that suggests they plan on making the new Lightroom CC suitable for pro workflows in future too. That's reassuring.


Classic didn't get many new features

It's true, it didn't get a long list of features. On the other hand, Lightroom users have been begging for performance improvements and bug fixes for years. They start working on these issues and now we're complaining? And why bother to work on these issues if they're planning to kill it off soon?


Learn from history

I can't foresee the future, although it would be a handy skill. We can, however, learn from what they've done in the past. Let's take Photoshop as an example. They announced that future versions would only be available on subscription, but they kept selling the perpetual license. Once the vast majority of users had moved to subscription, they then killed off perpetual. They've just done the same with Lightroom.


What can we learn from this? Adobe makes some weird decisions at times, but they are good at making money. They don't kill off a profitable part of their business until most customers have moved over to a new offering.


How does that help? Ok, let's assume that they're eventually going to kill off Lightroom Classic. History would suggest they wouldn't do that until they have a viable alternative for the majority of their customers. Not all, but most.


Now let's imagine that alternative-in-waiting is the new baby Lightroom CC app, all grown up. There are currently some major limitations that make it impossible for most users to migrate:

• It's lacking important features. That'll take time to develop, and they're looking to the community to learn which features are most important.
• It requires fast internet. Either the majority of the world needs superfast internet, which would take a long time, or they need some kind of selective sync, or local network sync, or...?
• You don't want some or any of your photos stored in the cloud, either for privacy or space reasons. Ok, selective sync again? Some kind of local storage only switch?

Once they've addressed those issues - and no doubt a few more besides - then potentially Lightroom CC could have tempted most of Lightroom's users, and they could be in a position to kill of Lightroom Classic.


But that couldn't happen overnight, so how long would it take? I don't know, but that same time span also gives other companies time to develop other applications.


My point? Even if we assume that Lightroom is on death row, there's no rush to make a decision about what's next. So many things can change in that time. Lightroom CC may grow up to be even better than Lightroom Classic (they must have learned a few lessons along the way!!) or another company may bring out a new superduper competitor.


I'm not saying that is or isn't going to happen - I don't know the future any more than you do - but even if we look at a worst case scenario of our beloved Lightroom being killed off someday, logically there's no reason to panic anytime soon.

 

[PhilBurton]

I'm not sure if there are any additional words I can say to reassure this group about Lightroom Classic. Actions are more important than words so please hold us accountable while we continue to update LrClassic over time. As I've mentioned publicly before our focus is performance, editing enhancements and features/functionality that have been strong customer requests over time(the new embedded preview workflow is a strong indication of that type of direction).

Regards,
Tom Hogarty
Adobe Systems

Tom,

Welcome to the forum.

Nice to see that you have joined. May I respectfully, if forcefully, suggest some mechanism whereby people on this forum can submit questions to you (in posts) and periodically you reply with answers that truly address the questions. Yes, I know that I might be asking you to do things differently at Adobe than your fellow product managers, but direct engagement also gives you the power that comes with a true, indepth understanding of (part of) your marketplace. Which leads to more market share and higher revenues, that's all.

I was just about to start a thread along the lines of,"OK, we're mad as hell, so what are we going to do about it," but your direct presence and participation is a better way to go.

Phil Burton

 

[CloudedGenie]

@Tom Hogarty ,

Welcome, I am glad to see you have joined. I fully support what @PhilBurton said.

Personally, I am not concerned with Lightroom being a subscription product only. Many (most) of the other software I use already utlize the same model. What I am not in the least interested in, is a system where my primary data resides in the cloud. Uploading a Smart Preview to the cloud, being able to do some metadata-editing while travelling or at lunch or fixing a photo so that it's good enough to post on Facebook, yes, but not for my main D800E raw file workflow.

However, as you said, actions are more important than words, and at the moment, all we have to go by are the actions from Adobe...

If I go to the Photography page on adobe.com, I see the massive blurb, video and download link for Lightroom CC (which used to be the name of the software I used to love to manage my photos...)
Scrolling down, it tells me that I can now edit my photos anywhere with the all-new Lightroom CC.
Scrolling down further, It has a pretty picture, telling me I can transform my images with Photoshop CC.

Then it has one line, no picture, just one line (in smaller font than the other headings)
"The Creative Cloud Photography plan also includes Lightroom Classic CC for desktop-focused editing"

That is all. Then it lists the three plans, again focused around the "all-new Lightroom CC"

Following the link in that one-liner gives you a one-page blurb about the "Classic" version and then invites you to "The future of photography. Here today. Introducing the all-new Lightroom CC."

 

[IanW]

I have last night upgraded my photographers plan to the new one. Using the new LRCC I can edit all the images presently residing as smart previews on Adobe’s cloud.

I really cannot imagine the pro’s & con’s of the future but my initial impression of LRCC is very favourable. I wish that LR mobile had feature parity with the new LRCC. This would be my foremost request.

As to the longevity of LR Classic, I have no idea but I would be disappointed if LRCC were to become as complicated as LR Classic. There is almost everything I need already in LRCC please don’t overload it with all the stuff in LR Classic I don’t need or use. Keep it simple.

If I keep all my photos on my hard drive as well as in the cloud will all my edits be synchronised to the images on my hard drive or only applied to the copies in the cloud ?

Could not the LRCC library in the cloud be synchronised with one on my hard drive ?

I really like the idea of having full-res files available to edit on my iPad Pro. In fact the synchronisation between my iMac and my iPad is the most attractive function of the photography plan and to extended that to full-res files is a very tempting prospect for me. 1TB storage is more than adequate for me so the LRCC only plan attracts me greatly.

I would just like someone to explain to me in plain, simple English how this will all work.

regards

Ian

 

[retratosjuan]

Alllll of this is why I’m moving to C1

 

[IanW]

I’ve tried C1 and the image processing is fantastic. In fact there’s something about the character of the images in C1 that I prefer to LR......but there is no synchronisation across devices and it is prone to crashing. It crashed on me after over a year of editing my images corrupting the database and losing me thousands of edits. I am now constantly scared when using it.
In ten years of using LR it has never crashed on me once. It is reliably solid.

 

[themoose]

I don't plan to use the cloud version of either, I'll stick with LR6. If it eventually dies then I'd look at other stand alone apps besides Adobe, already trying out other apps that I own. Adobe seems to put profit margins ahead of loyal users, much like other big companies such as Apple. I just upgraded my old MacPro3.1 to run High Sierra that Apple intentionally made obsolete a year ago.

 

[OogieM]

There is yet another issue that no one has mentioned. A cloud only option immediately eliminates existing users who use Lightroom to catalog, document and manipulate classified or restricted access photos, typically government agencies. I've done work for some of those folks, I have not yet asked my customers what they think of the whole Adobe moving to Cloud mess but I can tell you that right now they will NEVER put those images on any server not controlled by them and perhaps only in a machine in a SCIF!

 

[Replytoken]

I expected to hear the frustrations of many loyal and long time users about the announcement, but I am both surprised by some of the reactions of those in a bit closer orbit to Adobe (i.e. some moderators and gurus) and that Adobe actually headed in a direction that could cause such a reaction among those in close orbit. No, I do not believe all of those in closer orbit are "fanboys", but they have been pretty loyal to Adobe over the years, and have generally been measured (or diplomatic) when expressing their displeasure with Adobe in the past. To see some of the comments and reactions these past few days does make me wonder if Adobe has moved on to newer grounds. I just cannot see a lot of professional photographers moving all of their images into the cloud (as we are hearing), and thought that Adobe would always cater to this market, not unlike they have catered to the PS market with graphic professionals over the years. Granted, v. 2.x of CC could allow storage locally or in the cloud, so there may be a future as the new version incorporates Classic feature sets, but it would be great if Adobe would make a commitment to those who want very limited access to the cloud for storage. Interesting times!

--Ken

 

[OogieM]

I was just about to start a thread along the lines of,"OK, we're mad as hell, so what are we going to do about it," but your direct presence and participation is a better way to go.

I agree but I think the mad as hell thread still has merit. ;-)

Actually I want one on what other software options exist for the 2 main types of work that Lightroom does now, cataloging/metadata and image processing.

I'm personally more likely to move to something that does the task I need most, cataloging and metadata, but is open source because at least if it quits working I have some hope in hell of either programming the fixes myself or hiring a programmer to do it.

Heck I'm currently reworking 30 year old FORTRAN code on my Mac. I've actually got it running now and it's working well but the input files are cumbersome to create so I'm working to add a graphical front end to make that task easier. There is no reason for software to go dead unless the developers refuse to keep it functioning. That's why I'm increasingly moving to Open Source for things that are critical functions for me.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I expected to hear the frustrations of many loyal and long time users about the announcement, but I am both surprised by some of the reactions of those in a bit closer orbit to Adobe (i.e. some moderators and gurus) and that Adobe actually headed in a direction that could cause such a reaction among those in close orbit. No, I do not believe all of those in closer orbit are "fanboys", but they have been pretty loyal to Adobe over the years, and have generally been measured (or diplomatic) when expressing their displeasure with Adobe in the past. To see some of the comments and reactions these past few days does make me wonder if Adobe has moved on to newer grounds. I just cannot see a lot of professional photographers moving all of their images into the cloud (as we are hearing), and thought that Adobe would always cater to this market, not unlike they have catered to the PS market with graphic professionals over the years. Granted, v. 2.x of CC could allow storage locally or in the cloud, so there may be a future as the new version incorporates Classic feature sets, but it would be great if Adobe would make a commitment to those who want very limited access to the cloud for storage. Interesting times!

I think Tom just did, so that is not the point. The point is that nobody seems to be willing to even give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[PhilBurton]

I agree but I think the mad as hell thread still has merit.

Actually I want one on what other software options exist for the 2 main types of work that Lightroom does now, cataloging/metadata and image processing.

I'm personally more likely to move to something that does the task I need most, cataloging and metadata, but is open source because at least if it quits working I have some hope in hell of either programming the fixes myself or hiring a programmer to do it.

Heck I'm currently reworking 30 year old FORTRAN code on my Mac. I've actually got it running now and it's working well but the input files are cumbersome to create so I'm working to add a graphical front end to make that task easier. There is no reason for software to go dead unless the developers refuse to keep it functioning. That's why I'm increasingly moving to Open Source for things that are critical functions for me.

Oogie,

How about this? If anyone else supports the idea of this "mad as hell" thread, then I will start it. I know how to ask for comments in a focused, actionable way, so if people want, I would collect and summarize these comments and then post them to the forum as an "open letter" to Adobe. if someone else supports this idea. But I don't want to go all negative on Adobe and accuse them of nefarious motives.

 

[clee01l]

I'm not sure if there are any additional words I can say to reassure this group about Lightroom Classic. Actions are more important than words so please hold us accountable while we continue to update LrClassic over time. As I've mentioned publicly before our focus is performance, editing enhancements and features/functionality that have been strong customer requests over time(the new embedded preview workflow is a strong indication of that type of direction).

Thank you for taking the time and effort to comment to our user to user group. If you look at my record here, you will see that I have done more than anyone here in terms of user support to help Lightroom users and support Lightroom with the exception of Victoria herself. I've done that without pay and as an enthusiastic volunteer. At one time, I was invited and participated in the LR user testing group the Victoria, Jim Wilde and others have been involved in behind the scenes. I think my support of Adobe Lightroom speaks for itself. If you are open to some constructive criticism, Please listen to what I have to say and respond.
The biggest failure that I see has been to manage user expectations. The rollout of the two new versions of LR has been poorly received. Perhaps universally. The fact that you are here, means that you at least recognize that. All of the Photography blogs that I have read are negative. Your competition is using your new product release as an incentive to get customers to switch. They should be using the "new" Lightroom as a measuring rod to attempt to measure up. Your marketing of Lightroom has given them all the ammunition they need to take advantage of this marketing blunder on Adobe's part.
Note that I have called this a marketing blunder. Adobe has failed to manage users expectations. I would think that with the fiasco that followed the introduction of LR6/LRCC that Adobe would have learned and made every effort not to repeat.
Users don't like surprises. Yet without fanfare you spring on the public this new Lightroom and expect users to fall all over themselves. You do this simultaneously with the cessation of the perpetual license. You could have announced the discontinued the perpetual license six months ago and those users would have been prepared for the only options now available. Now please address with me the two new flavors of LR. Lightroom Classic is the only product that you have that meets everyone's functionality needs, Yet it is being promoted like "last decade's" product. Lightroom CC is not the Old LRCC But it is being promoted as the future for Lightroom. What you have actually delivered is a Lightroom Mobile for Laptops and Desktops. Lightroom Mobile for Laptops is not a bad product. But in functionality it falls far short of the functionality that serious photographers need. Lightroom Mobile for Laptops is a product aimed at the "Selphie" smart phone users. Worse, the two products are mutually exclusive. You have subscription plans that include both Lightroom Classic and Lightroom Cloud, yet these two products do not communicate seamlessly if they communicate at all.
If the plan is to integrate the two products. Please say so. NO Surprises. If the plan is to replace the Classic with Lightroom Cloud, then say so, NO Surprises. To replace Lightroom Classic is the implication from all of your new product advertising.
Recently Code42 abandoned the consumer cloud backup market product CrashPlan. This happens often enough for the computer consumer to be wary of locking all of their data in Somebody else's cloud. Unless you find away for Lightroom to maintain one foot in the cloud and another in the computer, you will lose market share. Worse the prices that you are charging for cloud storage ($120USD/yr/TB) is much higher than buying that same storage and managing an image inventory locally (An 8 TB external hard drive is less than the annual subscription for LightroomCC).
So to summarize:

• I think it would be useful to undertake a new marketing effort to recharacterize the two new products for what they are Lightroom for Professionals and Lightroom Mobile for Laptops and Desktops.
• Another thing that you might do is provide an upgrade path for perpetual license holders (A year of Lightroom Classic for $79USD would be a reasonable upgrade offer for current perpetual license holders)
• Do something unconventional for Adobe. Announce your future plans for Lightroom. If the plan is to integrate the two products. Go on record with that statement. If the plan is to replace the Classic with a fully functional Lightroom Cloud, then say so. Remember, NO Surprises. Your users deserve to be treated fairly and with respect.
  
  Please note that any shortcomings attributed to Adobe are not technical they lie entirely at the feet of your Marketing Group.

 

[Gnits]

Cletus. Well said.

I cannot believe Adobe Marketing could be so stupid, but then I suppose, they have years of practice.

Tom, please answer Cletus’s questions.... please.

 

[Jimmsp]

I'll second the request to address Cletus's points. These are well thought out.

 

[OogieM]

Oogie,

How about this? If anyone else supports the idea of this "mad as hell" thread, then I will start it. I know how to ask for comments in a focused, actionable way, so if people want, I would collect and summarize these comments and then post them to the forum as an "open letter" to Adobe. if someone else supports this idea. But I don't want to go all negative on Adobe and accuse them of nefarious motives.

I would like that. I agree the issues are more marketing but also some clear technical issues have not been addressed.

 

[Replytoken]

I think Tom just did, so that is not the point. The point is that nobody seems to be willing to even give him the benefit of the doubt.

I have no beef with Tom. I was happy that he advocated for a continuation of the perpetual version (and happy that he posted here). But, as we can see how that turned out, I do not put much weight to Tom's statements as, IMHO, I believe that decisions are being made levels above Tom. If Tom was actually calling the shots, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a technical genius, and a passionate advocate for photography, but in reality, he is coming across a bit more like a figurehead, and that is unfortunate. What I would really like to see from Tom is to spearhead a full-on replacement for the desktop version of LR so Adobe can keep heading to where it wants to head with the current product and not take along those of us not interested in cloud-based solutions. Is there not enough room for two product lines so that we do not have to worry about what the word "classic" means? I wonder how this whole thing would have been received if they had left what is now called "classic" alone and launched the new CC product under another name other than LR? I suspect that more people would have been receptive to the whole affair, and that they could have eventually mated up the two programs in the future (to some degree or another) when it made sense.

--Ken

 

[MarkNicholas]

I'll end with a plea: I understand many of you have concerns, and even though I think some are misguided or misplaced they're obviously real to you. Many of the issues you've raised are totally outside our control or influence, and some of those issues we also share. But other than give your our own perspective, there's little more that we can do....Victoria's given you a host of information about the changes, and it would be really great to help her by starting to think about putting these more emotive issues away (because we can't fix them here) and start perhaps looking in more detail at the changes and how they might be used. Thanks for listening.

Jim, I thought one of the main purposes of this forum was for its members to express their opinions and thoughts relating to Lightroom. The major recent developments have clearly taken many members by surprise and some the posts are bound to be on the emotional side.
It’s important that we hear all opinions and that we don’t try to stifle healthy debate.

 

[donrisi]

I am, as usual, late to this party, but yes, I agree that the Lightroom we've all come to know and love (now called Lightroom Classic) is on its way out, in favor of a cloud based monster that will require us all to "rent" cloud space from Adobe. A great lesson in how to make money -- create something that your customers cannot live without, and then milk them dry.

It's coming and there's nothing we can do about it.

 

[PhilBurton]

I'll second the request to address Cletus's points. These are well thought out.

Me too. Cletus said what I have been thinking, but better than I could have said it. And I have to say that Cletus has been one of the most helpful people in this forum, to me personally.

I don't think Adobe can rely on a conventional "competitive analysis," a comparison of different products for the same purpose, to justify the assumption that most people will stay loyal to Lightroom. Emotions are strong right now.

Tom, if you are reading this, please don't discount people's anger by assuming that will just pass with time. it won't. You need to "break the rules" a bit to engage more directly with people in this forum. Ask for forgiveness after the fact, not permission in advance. Your justification is that if you say the right things, and back them up with actions, you can regain the confidence of an important part of your marketplace. A few statements here and there in the forums will not be enough. You need to engage on a daily basis if necessary.

By that, I don't mean that you should play tech support and respond to messages about how to make Lightroom do this or that, or why it is not functioning as expected. You need to comb through the message threads that have been triggered by the MAX announcements, identify the key issues, and respond, point by point. That does not mean "giving in" on every issue, but it does mean you have to give people reasons to stay with Lightroom, and not to plan on an early migration.

Phil Burton

 

[Deleted member 39308]

I'm not sure if there are any additional words I can say to reassure this group about Lightroom Classic. Actions are more important than words so please hold us accountable while we continue to update LrClassic over time. As I've mentioned publicly before our focus is performance, editing enhancements and features/functionality that have been strong customer requests over time(the new embedded preview workflow is a strong indication of that type of direction).

Regards,
Tom Hogarty
Adobe Systems

Hi Tom,

I think a good example of commitment from Adobe would be to add support for Adobe's PSB file format into the Lightroom Classic catalogue. I was disappointed this was not in this year's major release and it has been a request open for over 7 years on the Photoshop Family feedback web site.

Lack of PSB file format support is a major issue for me in my workflow, PSB files are not accessible from Lightroom. If this gets added soon I will believe that Lightroom Classic is not in End of Life support mode.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

@Tom Hogarty, thanks for joining us and daring to stick your head above the parapet. That says a lot. It would be tempting for hide in Head Office with all this going on!

And thank you everyone for continuing this conversation in a polite non-attacking manner. There's a good cross-section of opinions in this thread, that fairly well represent the viewpoints of the wider audience.

it does mean you have to give people reasons to stay with Lightroom, and not to plan on an early migration.

If this gets added soon I will believe that Lightroom Classic is not in End of Life support mode.

So let me ask the same of everyone else...

What exactly would have to happen for you to believe that LR Classic is not in End of Life support mode and restore your faith in Adobe?

Let's be relatively realistic - let's assume they're sticking with the decision to end perpetual licenses (I know that's not popular, but it's been heading that way for years) and they're not about to throw away all the work they've done on new baby Lightroom CC app. They can't roll back the clock, but what do you think they should do next to allay your fears? What reassurance do you need?

I know some of you have already answered this, but it seems a much more productive direction in which to continue the conversation. Everyone knows everyone's upset, so you don't need your Mad as Hell thread Phil.

 

[Gnits]

This is just a quick brain dump.

1. Marketing mess.... so needs a well considered marketing response
2. Aggressively tackle the list of good ideas in the Feature Requests. Lots of good ideas that are years and years old.
3. Next release should concentrate on performance and usability. I have a big long list of small items that would make a big difference to end user usability.
4. Fix the Book Module. Allow images and txt to be placed where the user wants and not constrained by templates. Open the book module to more than Blurb.
5. Improve the Import module. My Lr Preprocessor puts Adobe Import to shame. This is not as big a job as it seems, but needs care and not just a dumbing down exercise. I would like Adobe to make my pre-processor redundant, rather than me making it a product for sale.
6. Do something which addresses the needs of the Pro User instead of modules and apps that appear to cater for the lowest common denominator.
7. What happened to the "Just Do It" programme.

I will consider this further and maybe come back with more considered ideas.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Jim, I thought one of the main purposes of this forum was for its members to express their opinions and thoughts relating to Lightroom. The major recent developments have clearly taken many members by surprise and some the posts are bound to be on the emotional side.
It’s important that we hear all opinions and that we don’t try to stifle healthy debate.

People join forums such as this for different reasons, Mark. I joined the forum back in 2010 because I was just starting to use my Lightroom 2 in a more serious way, so I was looking to other more knowledgeable users to pick up some tips. Gradually as my knowledge deepened I realised I had a knack and aptitude for helping others with their problems, so I stayed. As did many others. And under Victoria's leadership, this forum has become highly respected as a highly competent, warm and friendly place to come to for people looking for help. Personally, I'd just like to get back to that, especially when there's nothing I can do to fix this specific "issue", it's not a technical problem that we're good at dealing with. We share many of the same frustrations, though would perhaps use different rhetoric sometimes!

I'm not trying to stifle healthy debate, but there's sometimes a fine line between "healthy debate" and "venting", and the latter is, while understandable, pretty pointless. What I desperately want to avoid is the great team here fighting with each other, we mustn't allow that to happen. Fortunately, Tom Hogarty's appearance in the thread seems to have created the opportunity for somewhat more focused discussion, which is good.

But when I see talk of a "Mad as Hell" forum being setup, then frankly I shudder. If we turn ourselves into another U2U then no doubt I for one won't be around much longer, but I'm hoping that won't happen. But that's not my call, it's Victoria's. Call it something more constructive, less negative, perhaps.

 

[davidedric]

@Victoria Bampton

In my case, they don't have to do anything. They live in a commercial world, and the future will be driven by marketing and not engineering. Assurances are nice, but like all plans they are subject to change. In the absence of a disaster, such as a sudden decision to withdraw licences, I am confident I will have time to reassess should I need to. Classic is a better product than the one I am currently using happily - why would I rush to jump ship?

Dave

 

[Victoria Bampton]

But that's not my call, it's Victoria's. Call it something more constructive, less negative, perhaps.

I agree completely Jim. Many people are upset, which is completely understandable because this is a huge change and it hasn't been communicated well. We've worked hard to make this forum a positive environment, where we can have grown up constructive conversations, and that's not about to change now. There are forums on the web where toddlers are encouraged to throw their toys out of the pram and rant wildly, but this isn't that place. We're all adults here, and all perfectly capable of sensible conversations, while acknowledging that emotions are running high right now. So thank you everyone for keeping it on track.