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Is Lightroom Classic end-of-life?

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Writing metadata to files does indeed work. If you added a graduated filter with a range mask, then Lightroom 6 will pick up the filter but not the range mask adjustment. The process version is no problem.

But it even goes deeper than that. You assume that Lightroom Classic is used for one year and then the photographer decides to go back to Lightroom 6, but that is not necessarily the case. It's also possible that somebody migrates his catalog to Lightroom CC, and then after a year he changes his mind and wants to go back to Lightroom 6...
 
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Writing metadata to files does indeed work. If you added a graduated filter with a range mask, then Lightroom 6 will pick up the filter but not the range mask adjustment. The process version is no problem.

But it even goes deeper than that. You assume that Lightroom Classic is used for one year and then the photographer decides to go back to Lightroom 6, but that is not necessarily the case. It's also possible that somebody migrates his catalog to Lightroom CC, and then after a year he changes his mind and wants to go back to Lightroom 6...
Or worse, has been using a split between Classic and CC where some originals are in each place.

We're not in Kansas anymore, and I'm not sure there's a yellow brick road anywhere to be seen. :alien:
 
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There's the issue of the catalog as Johan mentions, but you can also use the Classic catalog (i.e. V7 not V6) and not use the Develop feature; in other words your photos are still accessible, you just cannot produce new edits.
IIRC, the Quick Develop panel in the Library module will still be available. Not as extensive as the disabled Develop module would be, but could still be quite useful.
 
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IIRC, the Quick Develop panel in the Library module will still be available. Not as extensive as the disabled Develop module would be, but could still be quite useful.
True, but I doubt how useful it would really be. You won't be able to use spot removal, for example.
 

jms969

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Or worse, has been using a split between Classic and CC where some originals are in each place.

We're not in Kansas anymore, and I'm not sure there's a yellow brick road anywhere to be seen. :alien:
I think the yellow brick road is just say no to lightroom and no to adobe, there are a number of other credible solutions...
 

Ad Astra

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A suggestion for Victoria,

How about arranging a conference call with Tom Hogarty where Victoria asks Tom a range of questions about the future of Lightroom that have been posed on the forums and then make a recording available for people to play back? Video conference would be nice but audio only would still give a good way to discuss the questions posed. There are a lot of questions in this thread so an hour would be a good duration, 30 minutes may be a bit of push to get everything covered.
 
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Let's look at the word "Classic."

I"m a classic at seventy-two. In other words, I'm closer to the ceiling than I am to the floor, and I'm on the way out.
Classic cars are old cars, not made anymore, nice to look at, but unavailable.
Classical era refers to ancient Greek and Roman. They haven't been with us since the eight and seventh BC.

Lightroom Classic will become the dinosaur of editing software.

But, I agree with the idea that Adobe wants to make money. If they abandon Lightroom Classic, they will find a way to give us something else that will make us stay.

When Adobe came up with the subscription plan, I expected it to sink to the bottom of the sea, never to be heard from again. It didn't. It survived and thrived. It even came up with $9.99 a month solution for Photoshop and Lightroom.

I had an interesting chat with the man who is head of Global Customer Service. I can assure you that Adobe wants to keep us happy.
I also can assure you that change is hard. All of us want to stay where we are because it is comfortable. When change happens we bitch and moan and threaten to leave. Have we forgotten the hullabaloo that accompanied the move to a subscription service?

If you start with the premise that Adobe wants to stay in business, I suggest we bitch and moan now and get it out of our systems. I don't think they have much competition in the space they've carved out for themselves. I think the other programs that are out there are not even stepsisters. I think they're cousins, five times removed. I remember how excited we were when a new function was added to Lightroom. If it was buggy, and it always was, we told them and they fixed it. Keep an open mind. If Lightroom is the dinosaur, then Lightroom CC is the baby.

Does anyone believe that Adobe will throw out the old classic with the bathwater? I don't. Don't we all wish that we loaded up on Adobe stock? A year ago it was $104.12. Today, it's 181.97. If we aren't important to Adobe, and I believe we are, then their shareholders are.

Watch this video with Julianne Kost. Of course, she is giving us the Adobe line, but I believe her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=eDhzGtwNCGg

Point me in the right direction. Educate me about Adobe CC. I'm old and I don't have time to moan and groan or pretend that I can see into the future.

I live ten miles from the Adobe headquarters. I'd be happy to stand outside, carrying a sign with our gripes. I don't feel like a hostage. I feel that I'm on a ride with Adobe.

I have faith in this company. Adobe, bring it on!
 

tspear

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Let's look at the word "Classic."

I"m a classic at seventy-two. In other words, I'm closer to the ceiling than I am to the floor, and I'm on the way out.
Classic cars are old cars, not made anymore, nice to look at, but unavailable.
Classical era refers to ancient Greek and Roman. They haven't been with us since the eight and seventh BC.

Lightroom Classic will become the dinosaur of editing software.

But, I agree with the idea that Adobe wants to make money. If they abandon Lightroom Classic, they will find a way to give us something else that will make us stay.

When Adobe came up with the subscription plan, I expected it to sink to the bottom of the sea, never to be heard from again. It didn't. It survived and thrived. It even came up with $9.99 a month solution for Photoshop and Lightroom.

I had an interesting chat with the man who is head of Global Customer Service. I can assure you that Adobe wants to keep us happy.
I also can assure you that change is hard. All of us want to stay where we are because it is comfortable. When change happens we bitch and moan and threaten to leave. Have we forgotten the hullabaloo that accompanied the move to a subscription service?

If you start with the premise that Adobe wants to stay in business, I suggest we bitch and moan now and get it out of our systems. I don't think they have much competition in the space they've carved out for themselves. I think the other programs that are out there are not even stepsisters. I think they're cousins, five times removed. I remember how excited we were when a new function was added to Lightroom. If it was buggy, and it always was, we told them and they fixed it. Keep an open mind. If Lightroom is the dinosaur, then Lightroom CC is the baby.

Does anyone believe that Adobe will throw out the old classic with the bathwater? I don't. Don't we all wish that we loaded up on Adobe stock? A year ago it was $104.12. Today, it's 181.97. If we aren't important to Adobe, and I believe we are, then their shareholders are.

Watch this video with Julianne Kost. Of course, she is giving us the Adobe line, but I believe her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=eDhzGtwNCGg

Point me in the right direction. Educate me about Adobe CC. I'm old and I don't have time to moan and groan or pretend that I can see into the future.

I live ten miles from the Adobe headquarters. I'd be happy to stand outside, carrying a sign with our gripes. I don't feel like a hostage. I feel that I'm on a ride with Adobe.

I have faith in this company. Adobe, bring it on!
Cyndi,

Nice perspective. Especially since I am headed home from my grandmother's 100th birthday party. I think you have a lot of time left!

I know three companies with a few hundred employees that have dropped Microsoft Office for either Libreoffice or Google Docs. Do either of these products match MS office? Nope, but they do 80% of what is needed for 10% of the cost.

Adobe is now in that situation. Before this poorly handled release I was already starting to question the value. Now I am questioning it even more, because there are very few features in the last few years which I would consider using. And the focus is mostly in directions I do not plan on ever using.
When I look at the competition, Adobe is no longer the only answer, and many companies come very close to meeting my requirements.

So, what has Adobe done for me for the 400 bucks I have paid so far? Dehaze? Skip all the mobile crap, I do not use it and I have exactly five images on my cell phone I use for caller ID.

Tim

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PhilBurton

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A suggestion for Victoria,

How about arranging a conference call with Tom Hogarty where Victoria asks Tom a range of questions about the future of Lightroom that have been posed on the forums and then make a recording available for people to play back? Video conference would be nice but audio only would still give a good way to discuss the questions posed. There are a lot of questions in this thread so an hour would be a good duration, 30 minutes may be a bit of push to get everything covered.
Great idea. How about a webinar, with an option to submit questions in advance to Victoria as well as during the webinar. Should Victoria do a poll to ask how many people would participate? And, what time zone? The webinar should be recorded so people who can't participate in the actual webinar can still view the event. Personally, I think this webinar should be scheduled for two hours.

Phil Burton
 

PhilBurton

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Let's look at the word "Classic."

Lightroom Classic will become the dinosaur of editing software.
Not if Adobe wants us to be happy and continue to subscribe.
But, I agree with the idea that Adobe wants to make money. If they abandon Lightroom Classic, they will find a way to give us something else that will make us stay.
IF Adobe is smart, they will "rebuild" LR Classic functionality in the web product, probably over several years. That functionality of course includes desktop editing, of course. Then they can announce that they have "merged" the products into "just Lightroom."
I don't think they have much competition in the space they've carved out for themselves. I think the other programs that are out there are not even stepsisters. I think they're cousins, five times removed. I remember how excited we were when a new function was added to Lightroom. If it was buggy, and it always was, we told them and they fixed it. Keep an open mind. If Lightroom is the dinosaur, then Lightroom CC is the baby.
No competition, just ON1, CaptureOne, and Luminar.
Does anyone believe that Adobe will throw out the old classic with the bathwater? I don't. Don't we all wish that we loaded up on Adobe stock? A year ago it was $104.12. Today, it's 181.97. If we aren't important to Adobe, and I believe we are, then their shareholders are.
I believe that the CEO will do whatever he/she has to to "maximize shareholder value." The large shareholders care about revenue and profits, not individual product lines.

The whole market is up this year.
Watch this video with Julianne Kost. Of course, she is giving us the Adobe line, but I believe her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=eDhzGtwNCGg
Julienne's job title is "Principal Digital Imaging Evangelist." That means she is an effective and articulate spokesperson for the current product lines. That means she said what she is told to say, effectively. That's not the same as actually formulating product strategy.
Point me in the right direction. Educate me about Adobe CC. I'm old and I don't have time to moan and groan or pretend that I can see into the future.

I live ten miles from the Adobe headquarters. I'd be happy to stand outside, carrying a sign with our gripes. I don't feel like a hostage. I feel that I'm on a ride with Adobe.

I have faith in this company. Adobe, bring it on!
1. I'm not that much younger.
2. I live about 20 miles from Adobe HQ.
3. About six months ago, I managed to get the name of the LR product manager, and I sent him a message through LinkedIn. No response.
4. I have not lost all faith in Adobe, else I would not still be active on this forum. But I am watching with keen interest those people experimenting with alternatives.

Phil Burton
 

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Like Phil, I have not lost all hope in Adobe continuing to be my goto photography solution.
However, it is no longer automatic. I am now evaluating other choices, and will continue to do so on a part time basis until either Adobe convinces me otherwise or I found a solution which meets my requirements.

Tim

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There are lots of subtle issues here, so if you want your blog posting to be well researched, you might want to dive a bit deeper. There's the issue of the catalog as Johan mentions, but you can also use the Classic catalog (i.e. V7 not V6) and not use the Develop feature; in other words your photos are still accessible, you just cannot produce new edits. You can also export the photos afterwards to TIFF and use them in a different product (as well as LR 6). Finally you can write metadata (xmp sidecards) and import them back into LR6 with possibly mixed results, since if you use LR7 features they may not show up properly in LR6. I haven't personally tried the latter, but I THINK that LR6 will just ignore features it does not recognize as opposed to rejecting the Process version 4 XMP data (anyone tried it?).

It's a deep subject; if your blog isn't just a "let me say the same thing again", you might want to spend some time experimenting with the use cases and what works well and what doesn't for those who stop subscriptions. Adobe has done quite a lot to give people a soft landing (in LR CC for example you get a year to download your photos). That doesn't take the sting out of "subscription only" for those who hate the idea of subscriptions, but it does reflect an attempt to mitigate the pain.
Thank you. I will try to get my head around all of that and amend the post as necessary. I don't reach IT/PP experts such as those that post here, more like general photographers and some very peripherally involved with photography. So I simplification is the name of the game for me. I may use a term such as "functionality will be limited, including the loss of the develop module"; Does that sound OK?
 
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Thank you. I will try to get my head around all of that and amend the post as necessary. I don't reach IT/PP experts such as those that post here, more like general photographers and some very peripherally involved with photography. So I simplification is the name of the game for me. I may use a term such as "functionality will be limited, including the loss of the develop module"; Does that sound OK?
I think so, others may have a more thorough awareness of all that happens and comment. I think the problem is some subjects are difficult to simplify. Adobe has tried to strike a balance between protecting its revenue stream / licenses, and accommodating users who decide to leave the fold. It's a hot political issue, as many do not feel subscription is ever acceptable. So whatever you say rather opens a can of worms where the technical details get lost in the emotions.

The core of the situation really is that Lightroom is a non-destructive editor, or parametric editor. It does not EDIT a photo so much as remember what it is you want done to it, and do those steps when you display or print or export. And these edits are in a proprietary "language", so you cannot take these editing steps and go to a new vendor with them and end up on par with where you were in Lightroom (you can take the final result in an exported TIFF that incorporates them).

This leads people to feeling that Adobe is holding their editing steps' implementation hostage (often they say they are holding their images hostage), and there's some truth in that, but its core is less to do with subscription and more to do with using proprietary editing. If you have a perpetual license instead you have "perpetual" access, but in reality that is only as long as you can keep the program running. In theory my old visicalc spreadsheets (if I could find them) could still be accessed by visicalc (if I had a copy still), but I could never get it running on today's windows. The same ultimately is true of a "perpetual" lightroom. Perpetual also holds you hostage, just its time frame is a LOT longer, as it lasts as long as you can keep it running. IT guys running VMs and old software on simulated hardware may do that for 50 years; someone with an aging computer replaced by Best Buy may lose access to perpetual next week as they get their new computer because they can't figure out how to get it running and they are technophobes and stuck. So all this debate is about how long "perpetual" is, at some level, and how it compares to paying subscriptions.

Sorry, I ramble....FWIW.
 

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Adobe has tried to strike a balance between protecting its revenue stream / licenses,
I looked that one up.

"Stellar year-on-year growth" of 26% (latest figures) & "record revenue of $1.84 billion in the third quarter of 2017." Not really protecting, as such, is it?
 
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I looked that one up.

"Stellar year-on-year growth" of 26% (latest figures) & "record revenue of $1.84 billion in the third quarter of 2017." Not really protecting, as such, is it?
Seems like they did a good job, but my point is that they could not very well say to subscribers "if you leave you can keep using it forever". And they could have said "if you leave you it stops working completely, immediately", which is what most subscriptions do. They chose a point in between.

Remember in the US, it is the fiduciary duty of a company to maximize value for stockholders; there is no legal requirement to make customers happy, indeed if there is a choice between happy customers and profit to stockholders they violate the legal duty if they choose the former. So really we need to blame Congress for software subscriptions. :confused:
 
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Seems like they did a good job, but my point is that they could not very well say to subscribers "if you leave you can keep using it forever". And they could have said "if you leave you it stops working completely, immediately", which is what most subscriptions do. They chose a point in between.
If you lease a product, you can often buy it at the end of the lease period for a reduced price. I think that is what Adobe should do: If you let your subscription end, you can choose between the current situation where Lightroom keeps working but without the Develop module and the Map module, or you pay a one time fee to keep a working copy (but no updates, of course). The only thing that still would not work (because of royalties) would be the map module.
 
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Thank you everyone for all the feedback. I'm sure you've all given Adobe plenty to think about. Now we wait and see what Adobe does next... but that will no doubt take time.

In the meantime, it's time to close this thread and get back to the main aim of this forum which is "dedicated to the support of Adobe Photoshop Lightroom."

I understand that many have strong feelings on the changes, which is why I've let the venting and debates go on for a few weeks, but now it's time to get back to the constructive and positive atmosphere that makes this forum a happy place to be, even when the world is getting turned upside down. Adobe's own feedback forums are the best place for complaints and demands.
 
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