Import from card ,can't move ,only copy

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bobb

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Why is the import dialog different when importing from a card?there is no option to move the files.
In Acdsee i can auto import and tick a box to delete the files on the card, with LR i have to go to explorer and delete the files manually.
Am i missing something ?
thanks,bob
 
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> Why is the import dialog different when importing from a card?

Confirmed; for import from my Cannon camera (IXUS 86'), there is only copy.

I don't know why exactly; I'd have thought moving the files was what most people would want when importing from a device. It's a little annoying having to use the OS to clear the photos from the camera.
 
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[quote author=Anti link=topic=7388.msg5'377#msg5'377 date=1248881683]

> Why is the import dialog different when importing from a card?

Confirmed; for import from my Cannon camera (IXUS 86'), there is only copy.

I don't know why exactly; I'd have thought moving the files was what most people would want when importing from a device. It's a little annoying having to use the OS to clear the photos from the camera.
[/quote]

We'll might hear from someone with more extensive knowledge there is some hidden setting somewhere to alter this.
I can't imagine this would be the default behavior ;this is the first step in the workflow i would think.
 
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One reason LR only offers copy when importing from a card is that it is generally a best practice to format your cards in your camera and not via the OS. By copying the files you can (1) verify that everything came in well and then (2) put your card back in your camera and format it.
 
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It is always safer to copy then delete rather than move. When you download a card there is normally no existing back up of the files (unless you do a ‘field’ download to laptop or storage device) so if anything goes wrong during the download there is always the potential for data loss; this is the thinking behind Adobe’s decision in making this the default behaviour and I can see no obvious reason to provide an override option.

In fact I would like to see a positive verification option built into the download process. Data is precious, perhaps as someone who lost almost a years worth work through not backing up I have become an over cautious pessimist but reading in forums makes me think it is something others still do not put a high enough priority on.

Also as others have mentioned one should always reformat the card in the camera before each use as all manufacturers recommend so there is no reason to delete the files as part of the download process.
 
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[quote author=trevorguy link=topic=7388.msg5'392#msg5'392 date=1248891286]
It is always safer to copy then delete rather than move. When you download a card there is normally no existing back up of the files (unless you do a ‘field’ download to laptop or storage device) so if anything goes wrong during the download there is always the potential for data loss;
this is the thinking behind Adobe’s decision in making this the default behaviour and I can see no obvious reason to provide an override option.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ ,default behavior , ok ,but why not add the option and let the user decide.
Your assumption about Adobe's thinking is not correct; in Bridge ; "photo downloader" then under "advanced options "youl'l see the option : " delete original files" !

In fact I would like to see a positive verification option built into the download process. Data is precious, perhaps as someone who lost almost a years worth work through not backing up I have become an over cautious pessimist but reading in forums makes me think it is something others still do not put a high enough priority on.

Also as others have mentioned one should always reformat the card in the camera before each use as all manufacturers recommend so there is no reason to delete the files as part of the download process.
Click to expand...
I find it hard to believe everybody formats the card every time.....i have been using digital camera;s for many years ,never ever formatted a card, and never had any problems, and i doubt all manufacturers recommend this; my Sony dsc-r1 manual and my canon g3 manual don't mention this at all.
 
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There are three methods to remove data from a camera card. Deleting files is the least desirable. When you delete a file in the camera you only free up space used by that image and other contiguous address spaces may still have data making subsequent new files fragmented and generally slowing dow the write and read of image data to and from the card. The other two methods involve a format. You can format either from the camera or from the computer. If you format from the camera you only get one choice - Format. Uses the camera processor's only method. In the computer, you get two choices. A quick format, which does not remove any data but only the index making all previously occupied addresses available, and a Full Format. A full format usually gives you choices. the most common choices being FAT and FAT32. Most cameras read and write FAT32 most efficiently but will also R/W FAT if the card is small enough. A full format prepares all address spaces as new. It repairs bad sectors and generally makes the drive as efficient as possible.

If you were to move images files off a card rather than copy, then you would be left with a very badly organised card and your camera would suffer. Especially if you have a small buffer. If you plan to do any continuous mode shooting, you should do this with a freshly formated card. While you can get by for a time with a card that is mere erased and not formatted, you should periodically format these cards. Either in the camera of on the computer using FAT32 as you format option. The is nothing wrong with using the computer to format the card if you know what you need to do and how to do it. If you don't know, then use the camera. I prefer the computer because I do not waste my camera battery for anything that can be done outside the camera. (i.e. card formats) I do not stream data off the card while in the camera for the same reason.

Lightroom's import performs a copy instead of a move because moving merely deletes the files from the card and does not reformat card. Reformating the card is an OS function - either the computer OS or the camera OS. Since you want the best performance from the camera, you should reformat the cards frequently.
 
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[quote author=trevorguy link=topic=7388.msg5'392#msg5'392 date=1248891286]
It is always safer to copy then delete rather than move. When you download a card there is normally no existing back up of the files (unless you do a ‘field’ download to laptop or storage device) so if anything goes wrong during the download there is always the potential for data loss; this is the thinking behind Adobe’s decision in making this the default behaviour and I can see no obvious reason to provide an override option.

In fact I would like to see a positive verification option built into the download process. Data is precious, perhaps as someone who lost almost a years worth work through not backing up I have become an over cautious pessimist but reading in forums makes me think it is something others still do not put a high enough priority on.

Also as others have mentioned one should always reformat the card in the camera before each use as all manufacturers recommend so there is no reason to delete the files as part of the download process.
[/quote]

You can place a feature request for what you want!!
 
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Bob,
Sorry that should have read "I feel this is the thinking...." as I very rarely use Bridge I was unaware of its options; perhaps the Lightroom team took a different approach.
Maybe not everyone does reformat their cards before each use, I do, but then I always reformatted floppy discs on a regular basis. I’m sure all the workshops I have attended and books I have read recommend it as good practice.
I suppose it may have been a one off but we had a high end digital P&S camera at work which gave a repeated problems with reading cards until I encouraged all the users to reformat before use, never a problem since.
However, each to his own.....

Geoff,
Thanks for that, this post has reminded me that I ought to have done it a while ago.
 
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[quote author=bobb link=topic=7388.msg5'394#msg5'394 date=1248893621]
...never ever formatted a card, and never had any problems, and i doubt all manufacturers recommend this; ... my canon g3 manual don't mention this at all.
[/quote]

Page 131 of the Canon G3 manual warns..."CF cards formatted in another camera, computer or peripheral device may not operate correctly."

It has always been the recommendation from nearly every manufacturer to format in the camera. Since LR is geared to photographers it probably chose a copy only feature on the assumption that the photographer would format the card before the next shoot.

Bridge is NOT aimed at photographers (but used by many) and is an older code base. The option to delete may be perfectly appropriate for a designed using a flash drive.
 
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Lightroom is not following in the Footsteps of other Adobe, let alone other company, products, deliberately. It has been explicitly stated, in the past, by Adobe LR personnel (IIRC) on the UtoU forum that Move is not an acceptable process and it wont be included.

There have been many threads with problems of not all files being downloaded and corruption using some readers, so using Move can be a very problem-some choice, so it is not there.

As to have LR verify files on download, it is hoped that Adobe will include this at some future date. PLease do put in an official Feature Request on this.

Don
 
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[quote author=Gene McCullagh link=topic=7388.msg5'4'4#msg5'4'4 date=1248898392]
Page 131 of the Canon G3 manual warns..."CF cards formatted in another camera, computer or peripheral device may not operate correctly."
[/quote] Canon evidently does not think their users are knowlegable enough to explain why this might be a problem. If the card format were so unique, then it might be just as likely that a card formatted in a Canon camera might not operate correctly in another computer or peripheral. We know that this is not a problem. Built-in or external cardreaders read the Canon cards just fine and the Canon camera can read anything formatted through these card readers too. FAT32 is FAT32. it does not matter where the card gets its format. All that Canon does is add the DCIM folder and Canon index structure after the card is formatted. It will do that automatically on any newly fromatted card no matter wher the source. The reason it may not operate correctly is that you might not know to format it as FAT32 before placing it into the camera.
I've routinely formatted CF, SD & SDHC cards using the computer for years and have never experienced a problem with a Canon, (several) Panasonic, and Pentax.
 
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Thank you all for responding to my question, i have got my answer ;there is no setting to delete upon transferring from a card,
I am not convinced formatting is neccesary every time ,as i said , i have about 12''' foto's and never had any problems not formatting ; as is the case with my hd's, my usb sticks, and my navigation pna's card , which writes all the time ,poi's favourites, routes .
but i must admit my hd gets defragmented regularly.
Anyway ,Cletus D. Lee , i think i follow your advice to format regularly since i do a lot of continious shooting.
Cheers,bob
 
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[quote author=trevorguy link=topic=7388.msg5'392#msg5'392 date=1248891286]
In fact I would like to see a positive verification option built into the download process.
[/quote]
There wouldn't actually be a huge advantage to doing that, and it would double the time required to import.

On import into Lightroom, Lightroom checks that it can read the file, and that really should be followed by a visual check with previews rendered, to note any corruption for files that can be read. Adding card copy verification wouldn't actually add much to that process - it wouldn't find corruption caused at the time of writing to the card, or corruption caused by the card - and other cases should be caught by the previous steps mentioned above.

Ideal case scenario, the camera would embed a validation hash into the file at the time of capture, which could then be correctly validated on import. It's the direction that DNG is going, but that would require the camera manufacturer's getting on board too.
 
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Victoria,
Fair point, I’m an amateur so time is not of such high value; like so many things with complex software it very much depends on how you use it.
I tend to drop a couple of cards into the reader before I go to bed and let nature take its course. I render 1:1 previews at the time of import and life is to short to sit there waiting for 2''+ of those; I then do my first pick & ditch when time permits, which may be a day or two later. I find having the 1:1s makes the sorting much faster and leaves less room for “maybe – maybe not” indecision.
If the file is corrupt on the card for whatever reason nothing can be done about it but with verification I would know that what was on the computer had not been damaged during the transfer. As I said I’m paranoid about data loss and backing up so I fully accept I may not represent the norm (others have often alluded to this).

The validation hash would be a great idea, we can live in hope.
 
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